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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 8, 2021 18:49:36 GMT -5
I guess Georgetown can stay. But nobody wants to travel to Georgetown for a football game.They play a weak schedule, they reunited a rivalry with Catholic. They finally finished the stadium. They have never won the league. What's wrong with a trip to Washington DC every other year in football? We travel to Annapolis, DC and Baltimore in PL play in other sports. Per DFW Hoya, no one wants to schedule Georgetown home-and-home and therefore they consistently end up with awful non-conference schedules. They don't have the same lineage with the Ivies as the rest of the PL schools, but you'd think they'd be able to get games with the likes of local schools VMI, Howard, Morgan State, Delaware State and Monmouth on a more regular basis. Maybe they could get a couple "body-bag" guarantee games at JMU. Villanova plays the PA Patriot schools and Fordham somewhat often. Why not arch-rival Georgetown? Even though VU would have been favorites for probably 30+ years straight if those two played annually....
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 8, 2021 19:06:57 GMT -5
Indeed, and GU is becoming increasingly competitive. If it weren't for their agreeing to the roster cap, GU potentially could stock players receiving need-based fin aid that the rest of the PL couldn't match. As has been pointed out in the past, the IL may have more need-based scollies on ftheir ootball rosters than the 85 scollies on Clemson's, ND's, BC's rosters. Is this a serious concern? Given a fixed enrollment cap and an increasing AI, the idea that Georgetown is going to admit an extra 20 or 30 kids to play football is not realistic. I guess Georgetown can stay. But nobody wants to travel to Georgetown for a football game. They play a weak schedule, they reunited a rivalry with Catholic. They finally finished the stadium. They have never won the league. Georgetown's schedule is poor, I've said it for years. But they really struggle with filling the schedule. Only one Ivy has them on future schedules after 2021 (Brown). NEC and CAA schools aren't interested. Pioneer schools won't do a home and home series except Marist, and that's only because Jim Parady is a longtime friend of Rob Sgarlata. Even Davidson has turned down offers. And, to state the obvious, no I-A games. Why is Catholic University on the schedule? Because Howard University stiffed Georgetown on a series to take a $700K buyout game at Maryland. (Final score: Terrapins 79-0.) Howard doesn't want a series, nor Morgan State, Towson, or the Virginia schools. It still has three open dates for this fall. Three. The alternative is a ten, nine, even eight game season. Is that what the PL wants? They have never won the league. They may never do so. A case can be made that you can't have parity when one school has a 250-300 point SAT gap in the AI from Fordham or Bucknell. And without a free ride. Take a look at these numbers and ask if you're really that concerned that a flood of talent with these SAT's will come to a school without a scholarship, that doesn't play anyone, and somehow upset the balance of power in a declining, low major conference.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 8, 2021 20:27:46 GMT -5
DFW, I think the post about GU stacking the roster was purely theoretical. You're not going to jump over the other 6 football playing PL schools, just pull even maybe (which I think we all encourage).
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Post by hc6774 on Jan 9, 2021 6:36:18 GMT -5
What are the implications for the spring roster? currently 95
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Post by timholycross on Jan 9, 2021 9:22:36 GMT -5
What does the 95 include? I assume the new LOI signees would not count, not like any of them left high school early (like they do in a lot of instances) and started college already.
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Post by dharry13 on Jan 9, 2021 9:34:00 GMT -5
If they keep recruiting the way they have been the last two classes they will be tough. That I’m sure of. Talent wins and they are rising in that regard.
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Post by hc6774 on Jan 9, 2021 11:07:57 GMT -5
What does the 95 include? I assume the new LOI signees would not count, not like any of them left high school early (like they do in a lot of instances) and started college already. The current roster, 95, is essentially the summer 2020 roster that would have had to be reduced to 90 if the season had started in the fall. The '21 recruits/December's NLI's are not on it, presumable until after the spring season. A guess... PL will allow rosters in excess of 90 for spring season... but will it allow more than 90 & 60+ scholarships for the fall season?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 9, 2021 11:39:15 GMT -5
Indeed, and GU is becoming increasingly competitive. If it weren't for their agreeing to the roster cap, GU potentially could stock players receiving need-based fin aid that the rest of the PL couldn't match. As has been pointed out in the past, the IL may have more need-based scollies on ftheir ootball rosters than the 85 scollies on Clemson's, ND's, BC's rosters. Is this a serious concern? Given a fixed enrollment cap and an increasing AI, the idea that Georgetown is going to admit an extra 20 or 30 kids to play football is not realistic. I guess Georgetown can stay. But nobody wants to travel to Georgetown for a football game. They play a weak schedule, they reunited a rivalry with Catholic. They finally finished the stadium. They have never won the league. Georgetown's schedule is poor, I've said it for years. But they really struggle with filling the schedule. Only one Ivy has them on future schedules after 2021 (Brown). NEC and CAA schools aren't interested. Pioneer schools won't do a home and home series except Marist, and that's only because Jim Parady is a longtime friend of Rob Sgarlata. Even Davidson has turned down offers. And, to state the obvious, no I-A games. Why is Catholic University on the schedule? Because Howard University stiffed Georgetown on a series to take a $700K buyout game at Maryland. (Final score: Terrapins 79-0.) Howard doesn't want a series, nor Morgan State, Towson, or the Virginia schools. It still has three open dates for this fall. Three. The alternative is a ten, nine, even eight game season. Is that what the PL wants? They have never won the league. They may never do so. A case can be made that you can't have parity when one school has a 250-300 point SAT gap in the AI from Fordham or Bucknell. And without a free ride. Take a look at these numbers and ask if you're really that concerned that a flood of talent with these SAT's will come to a school without a scholarship, that doesn't play anyone, and somehow upset the balance of power in a declining, low major conference. One cohort that is impressed with these strong academic and selectivity stats is the PL Presidents. I don't see them giving GU a non-renewal.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 9, 2021 12:27:16 GMT -5
In recent years, PL rosters have had more than 90. In 2018-19, HC had 94 on the football roster according to its Title IX report, which, in turn, is based on its annual NCAA report on revenue and expenses. (The 2019-20 report is not yet filed.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 9, 2021 12:43:03 GMT -5
DFW, I think the post about GU stacking the roster was purely theoretical. You're not going to jump over the other 6 football playing PL schools, just pull even maybe (which I think we all encourage). More illustrative than theoretical. NCAA FCS football rosters are 'capped' by limiting the number of players with full scollies to 63, and the total number of players with any merit-based, or combination of merit and need-based, partial aid to 85. However, there is no limit on the number of players receiving need-based aid only, nor is there an NCAA limit on the number of full-pays. This has led to speculation that the IL could be awarding such a large amount of need-based aid, that the scollie equivalents of their rosters (particularly HYP) could approach, or even exceed, the 85 counters cap of FBS. (Navy football has rostered 160.) Georgetown's need-based aid for football is not counted in Title IX calculations. If this need-based aid were converted to merit aid, GU would have problems in providing offsetting merit aid $$ to women's sports because the university is near or at NCAA caps for the number of athletes receiving merit aid for a particular woman's sport. And the matter of offsets is why women's rowing is such a popular sport for offsets among FBS schools.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 9, 2021 13:16:51 GMT -5
The lower the percentage of applicants accepted the bigger the prize an acceptance is (ie: Varsity Blues) and thus the easier for a need based football team to compete with FCS scholarship schools because they are offering a bigger prize, I would think. I bet someone with the skill of a Coach Chesney could build a PL champion at GU over five or six years.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 9, 2021 13:56:27 GMT -5
The lower the percentage of applicants accepted the bigger the prize an acceptance is (ie: Varsity Blues) and thus the easier for a need based football team to compete with FCS scholarship schools because they are offering a bigger prize, I would think. Recruits don't think that way. If that were the case, wouldn't the Ivy be the go-to place for every top FCS recruit? As we well know, it isn't, And how many impact RB's or linemen are really in the recruiting pool with a 1500 SAT that is turning down a scholarship offer at 200 other schools (and a near-full ride at the Ivies) to pay to attend another school?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 9, 2021 14:18:59 GMT -5
The lower the percentage of applicants accepted the bigger the prize an acceptance is (ie: Varsity Blues) and thus the easier for a need based football team to compete with FCS scholarship schools because they are offering a bigger prize, I would think. Recruits don't think that way. If that were the case, wouldn't the Ivy be the go-to place for every top FCS recruit? As we well know, it isn't, And how many impact RB's or linemen are really in the recruiting pool with a 1500 SAT that is turning down a scholarship offer at 200 other schools (and a near-full ride at the Ivies) to pay to attend another school? Good points, you would hope the GU administration is helping the football program with some flexibility in admission/financial aid. I am also assuming that as selective as GU is, there are applicants who can get in there but not into an Ivy.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 9, 2021 16:46:25 GMT -5
Recruits don't think that way. If that were the case, wouldn't the Ivy be the go-to place for every top FCS recruit? As we well know, it isn't, And how many impact RB's or linemen are really in the recruiting pool with a 1500 SAT that is turning down a scholarship offer at 200 other schools (and a near-full ride at the Ivies) to pay to attend another school? Good points, you would hope the GU administration is helping the football program with some flexibility in admission/financial aid. I am also assuming that as selective as GU is, there are applicants who can get in there but not into an Ivy. Maybe not as many as you would think if they’re really good at football. Ivies have become much more aggressive in their pursuit of victories in the gridiron.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 10, 2021 2:27:24 GMT -5
I guess Georgetown can stay. But nobody wants to travel to Georgetown for a football game. They play a weak schedule, they reunited a rivalry with Catholic. They finally finished the stadium. They have never won the league. Not many people travel for 1-AA football games anyways...that isn't a real factor
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Post by hcgrad94 on Jan 10, 2021 7:27:09 GMT -5
The lower the percentage of applicants accepted the bigger the prize an acceptance is (ie: Varsity Blues) and thus the easier for a need based football team to compete with FCS scholarship schools because they are offering a bigger prize, I would think. Recruits don't think that way. If that were the case, wouldn't the Ivy be the go-to place for every top FCS recruit? As we well know, it isn't, And how many impact RB's or linemen are really in the recruiting pool with a 1500 SAT that is turning down a scholarship offer at 200 other schools (and a near-full ride at the Ivies) to pay to attend another school? Breezy and Dharry could weigh in on this, but if you look at the quality of recruits H/Y/P and some of the other Ivies are landing these days, that’s exactly what is happening. Uncapped aid and a University with a global reputation is a pretty attractive proposition.
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Post by dharry13 on Jan 10, 2021 8:54:33 GMT -5
It’s definitely happening more these days. There is a big draw at HYP because of a number of factors. Deep pocket book on aid, first class education, and a big one is they are getting guys to the NFL.
It’s not just the education but good players can play beyond college from the Ivies.
Drawbacks - Too many kids on roster and uncertainty on playing time. I don’t think they care much about no playoffs.
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Post by dharry13 on Jan 10, 2021 8:56:04 GMT -5
Many Ivy League recruits have FBS offers and a handful with P5. I wouldn’t say there are a lot with P5 but a handful each year.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 10, 2021 9:44:59 GMT -5
TE for Tampa bay last night (think the name is Brate) is from Harvard and had a big night - very true that the ivies have quite a few active players, most coming from Harvard
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Post by hcpride on Jan 10, 2021 10:14:25 GMT -5
As folks here know, when schools like HYP offer full financial aid to a kid (athlete or not) it is very hard for mom and dad to say no. And even the kid with NFL blinders on knows he can get to the NFL via that route.
We're not back in the 80's and 90's and talking paltry grants-in-aid anymore.
If Georgetown went to the HYP level of financial aid for its applicants (football and otherwise) the school would financially collapse in 8 seconds. BUT if magically they could, I predict they'd be a PL juggernaut.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 10, 2021 10:15:06 GMT -5
"If you're good, they'll find you."
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 10, 2021 10:25:03 GMT -5
Here are the number of active players from the Ivy League, per Pro Football Reference:
Harvard - 9 Princeton - 5 Penn - 3 Yale - 3 Brown - 2 Dartmouth - 2 Cornell - 1 Columbia - 1
Harvard has more players in the NFL than Syracuse.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 10, 2021 10:33:32 GMT -5
TE for Tampa bay last night (think the name is Brate) is from Harvard and had a big night - very true that the ivies have quite a few active players, most coming from Harvard The broadcasters made some remark about how Brate should be smart and they often make reference to that concept when Ryan Fitzpatrick plays. But that doesn't mean "Fitzmagic" always has the best football smarts when he heaves one of his many interceptions.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 10, 2021 10:43:57 GMT -5
Fitzpatrick had the fifth highest QBR this season. Flores should never have benched him in favor of Tua.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 10, 2021 10:49:03 GMT -5
Here are the number of active players from the Ivy League, per Pro Football Reference: Harvard - 9 Princeton - 5 Penn - 3 Yale - 3 Brown - 2 Dartmouth - 2 Cornell - 1 Columbia - 1 Harvard has more players in the NFL than Syracuse. Just as an example, when Mommy and Daddy (and Junior) Football see a full 100% aid package from Harvard next to a full athletic athletic schollie to Syracuse well it'd be no shocker if Harvard wins one now and again... By the same token when Mommy and Daddy (and Junior) non-athlete see a full 100% aid package from Harvard v a 65K bill from Georgetown (for example) well...
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