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Post by crusader99 on Jan 13, 2021 12:08:24 GMT -5
Great discussion.
From personal knowledge and experience, As a parent of a player who played at HC for coach Burke, i can unqualifiedly state that he is a terrific person, coach and mentor -- same as Coach Lat -- who unfortunately ran into a tough stretch while he was trying to elevate the program.
With a roster of 44 players and 4-6 scholarships, Coach Burke was bring 38-40 (+/-) full paying students to HC -- $2.8M (less financial aid). The kids performed well in the classroom (most qualified for the PL academic honors (which requires an in season GPA of 3.2 -- which is not an easy target at HC), volunteered in the community (top one or two lax teams in the COUNTRY), graduated, donated (2nd highest on campus giving in terms of $ and % of participation) and were true men for others. They were having success on the field both in terms of wins within the PL (3 PL tournament appearances and advancing to the PL semi-finals) and against the peer schools in New England (regularly beating Harvard/Brown and right behind PC). For a program that is not fully funded and plays a majority of the outdoor season in less than optimal weather conditions (but with access to the indoor facility), the Coaches are attracting talented players and this past year had multiple MLL and PLL draft picks and a current Junior (recruited by Coach Burke) who will be an All American candidate.
By any measure, Coach Burke had the program moving in the right direction, properly and within the standards of the College/PL. He will land on his feet and when he does, that school will have gained and great person/coach. A true loss to HC.
Coach Lynch is solid and also a good person. We wish him continued success and hopefully he has a fair opportunity to be the permanent coach.
Cheers.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 13, 2021 13:30:57 GMT -5
I agree with nj'sader has to say - by all info generally shared here over the past 3 years, coach Burke was over-achieving given the funding available to structure a respectable D.1 product - I really hope the reasons for his departure are good ones - I think the school and lax benefactors have to take a close look on why our head coaches seem to have a shelf life of no more than 4 years. ADMB has to take a look at this unsettling trend.
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Post by Tom on Jan 13, 2021 15:18:55 GMT -5
Not to one-up you but when I was at HC I read Joyce's "Ulysses" and had to write a 20 page paper. That book is not for the faint of heart. I never read anything by Joyce but understand it is all tough reading. On a positive note, he did base one of his books on a drinking song, so he can't be all bad
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 13, 2021 15:48:34 GMT -5
May I suggest that you may have cause and effect mixed up. Suspect the drinking song was caused and authored after someone read one of his books.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 13, 2021 16:22:17 GMT -5
Great discussion. From personal knowledge and experience, As a parent of a player who played at HC for coach Burke, i can unqualifiedly state that he is a terrific person, coach and mentor -- same as Coach Lat -- who unfortunately ran into a tough stretch while he was trying to elevate the program. With a roster of 44 players and 4-6 scholarships, Coach Burke was bring 38-40 (+/-) full paying students to HC -- $2.8M (less financial aid). The kids performed well in the classroom (most qualified for the PL academic honors (which requires an in season GPA of 3.2 -- which is not an easy target at HC), volunteered in the community (top one or two lax teams in the COUNTRY), graduated, donated (2nd highest on campus giving in terms of $ and % of participation) and were true men for others. They were having success on the field both in terms of wins within the PL (3 PL tournament appearances and advancing to the PL semi-finals) and against the peer schools in New England (regularly beating Harvard/Brown and right behind PC). For a program that is not fully funded and plays a majority of the outdoor season in less than optimal weather conditions (but with access to the indoor facility), the Coaches are attracting talented players and this past year had multiple MLL and PLL draft picks and a current Junior (recruited by Coach Burke) who will be an All American candidate. By any measure, Coach Burke had the program moving in the right direction, properly and within the standards of the College/PL. He will land on his feet and when he does, that school will have gained and great person/coach. A true loss to HC. Coach Lynch is solid and also a good person. We wish him continued success and hopefully he has a fair opportunity to be the permanent coach. Cheers. Great input, nj. We don’t need any details in a public forum but any idea if current or former players know why he is no longer with the program?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jan 13, 2021 17:25:46 GMT -5
In 2018/19 (2019-20 numbers not yet available) spending on M/W lacrosse
Loyola $3.3M Boston U $3.2M Colgate $2.7M Lehigh $2.6M Lafayette $2.4M Bucknell $1.8M HC $1.5M
When one factors in USMA and USNA, should be no quibbling about HC's spending being is in the pits. Loyola and BostU are likely maxed out on scollies under the NCAA caps for this sport.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 13, 2021 18:29:08 GMT -5
Just one more reason to " terminate the Turnpike Trophy!" (copyright pending ) Really. What do we have in common athletically with them? They play no football. Have a student body multiple times bigger than Holy Cross. The only thing we have in common with the Terriers is both are educational entities and both are located in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Have we ever been close to competitive to win this trophy? Ever?
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Post by purplenurple on Jan 13, 2021 19:45:09 GMT -5
Not to one-up you but when I was at HC I read Joyce's "Ulysses" and had to write a 20 page paper. That book is not for the faint of heart. I never read anything by Joyce but understand it is all tough reading. On a positive note, he did base one of his books on a drinking song, so he can't be all bad While Ulysses is an absolute bear of a read, Joyce's collection of short stories The Dubliners has some approachable and breathtaking vignettes. I would recommend "Araby" and "The Dead" from amongst them.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 13, 2021 20:38:05 GMT -5
Just one more reason to " terminate the Turnpike Trophy!" (copyright pending ) Really. What do we have in common athletically with them? They play no football. Have a student body multiple times bigger than Holy Cross. The only thing we have in common with the Terriers is both are educational entities and both are located in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Have we ever been close to competitive to win this trophy? Ever?It was a dumb idea on Day 1. It has aged poorly.
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Post by crusadernutjob on Jan 13, 2021 21:13:46 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset.
Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 14, 2021 3:31:39 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset. Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge. Clemson...really? They were a national power in 1980's so they have just been a sleeping giant in SEC country playing in the ACC
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 14, 2021 9:11:11 GMT -5
Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge. Clemson : Football :: Holy Cross : Lacrosse I kind of don't think so. Maybe Duke football is a better analogy.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 14, 2021 10:35:26 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset. Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge. Clemson...really? They were a national power in 1980's so they have just been a sleeping giant in SEC country playing in the ACC Clemson is among the biggest spenders when it comes to football.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 14, 2021 13:07:55 GMT -5
I appreciate nut job’s desire to think bigger about the possibilities for HC lacrosse with the right level of commitment. Not sure the Clemson football comparison is a good one.
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Post by alum on Jan 14, 2021 13:30:59 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset. Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge.It seems to me that culture changing coaches are not likely to go to a school with no money for scholarships and an AI. I am assuming that the pay is just average as well. I suppose the answer is a D3 superstar coach who we can hopefully get on his way up.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jan 14, 2021 13:56:40 GMT -5
I suspect the salary for the lax coaching job at HC is at the bottom of the PL. As Blossom has said in a couple of public forums, coaching salaries at HC are "at or near the bottom of the PL." Given where lax stands on the totem poll of HC sports, I think its a logical conclusion that people won't be lining up to apply for the position.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 14, 2021 14:36:39 GMT -5
I suspect the salary for the lax coaching job at HC is at the bottom of the PL. As Blossom has said in a couple of public forums, coaching salaries at HC are "at or near the bottom of the PL." Given where lax stands on the totem poll of HC sports, I think its a logical conclusion that people won't be lining up to apply for the position. There are 73 such jobs in the entire country. I suspect we will have plenty of applicants. Just need to find the right one.
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Post by crusadernutjob on Jan 15, 2021 12:06:51 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset. Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge. Clemson...really? They were a national power in 1980's so they have just been a sleeping giant in SEC country playing in the ACC Alright can we not pull out the straw man arguments here and instead have you give me one reason why holy cross doesn't have the potential to be consistently competitive each year? Swinney has elevated Clemsons program from an above average ACC team to the second best program in CFB, but that is neither here nor there. Obviously Clemson isn't apples to apples to when compared to Holy Cross' situation or their potential. I'm not saying HC is going to be competing for national championships, but I am saying that they can consistently be close to or firmly above .500 which is a complete 180 from their historical performance. But besides the glaring reasons you already provided such as a lack of media access which you seem to believe is holding them back significantly, can you give me a reason why the above isn't achievable? Or perhaps give me a reasons why a culture changing, young (probably D3) coach isn't the answer to fully tap into the brand of this school?
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 15, 2021 12:21:49 GMT -5
Clemson...really? They were a national power in 1980's so they have just been a sleeping giant in SEC country playing in the ACC Alright can we not pull out the straw man arguments here and instead have you give me one reason why holy cross doesn't have the potential to be consistently competitive each year? Swinney has elevated Clemsons program from an above average ACC team to the second best program in CFB, but that is neither here nor there. Obviously Clemson isn't apples to apples to when compared to Holy Cross' situation or their potential. I'm not saying HC is going to be competing for national championships, but I am saying that they can consistently be close to or firmly above .500 which is a complete 180 from their historical performance. But besides the glaring reasons you already provided such as a lack of media access which you seem to believe is holding them back significantly, can you give me a reason why the above isn't achievable? Or perhaps give me a reasons why a culture changing, young (probably D3) coach isn't the answer to fully tap into the brand of this school? The best D3 coaches are not leaving for a low level D-1 job. The Tufts coach left for Brown. The best bet is a D-1 assistant like Lattimore in the future and hope you hit a home run.
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Post by crusadernutjob on Jan 15, 2021 12:42:32 GMT -5
Alright can we not pull out the straw man arguments here and instead have you give me one reason why holy cross doesn't have the potential to be consistently competitive each year? Swinney has elevated Clemsons program from an above average ACC team to the second best program in CFB, but that is neither here nor there. Obviously Clemson isn't apples to apples to when compared to Holy Cross' situation or their potential. I'm not saying HC is going to be competing for national championships, but I am saying that they can consistently be close to or firmly above .500 which is a complete 180 from their historical performance. But besides the glaring reasons you already provided such as a lack of media access which you seem to believe is holding them back significantly, can you give me a reason why the above isn't achievable? Or perhaps give me a reasons why a culture changing, young (probably D3) coach isn't the answer to fully tap into the brand of this school? The best D3 coaches are not leaving for a low level D-1 job. The Tufts coach left for Brown. The best bet is a D-1 assistant like Lattimore in the future and hope you hit a home run. Only 73 D1 jobs in the nation, there will be plenty of applicants, and they should pick the one that understands best what they have at Holy Cross.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 15, 2021 15:09:17 GMT -5
Are there any HC lax alums who are currently college lax coaches?
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Post by rickii on Jan 18, 2021 15:25:19 GMT -5
I appreciate nut job’s desire to think bigger about the possibilities for HC lacrosse with the right level of commitment. Not sure the Clemson football comparison is a good one. Wait...you’re not sure?
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 18, 2021 16:28:48 GMT -5
You can continue to make excuses for the program which will never change or harp on reasons they can't win, or get a coach or leadership in the athletic department that will embrace the underdog mentality and beat teams that the general public thinks they shouldn't. How has this team beaten harvard 3 years in a row? This happens in college sports all the time, programs exceed their expectations with the right mindset. Being an underdog is the greatest competitive advantage in sports, and once a coach embraces that, he will be able to elevate the program to new heights. Look at Clemson and the way that they Dabo has elevated that program. That is the model, it isn't easy to do, but that is the blueprint for little 'ol Holy Cross to get a seat at the big boy table. Sitting around and complaining about lack of resources gets us nowhere. Blossom should hire a culture changer, someone with a vision. Burke seemed to fit that but now it's water under the bridge.It seems to me that culture changing coaches are not likely to go to a school with no money for scholarships and an AI. I am assuming that the pay is just average as well. I suppose the answer is a D3 superstar coach who we can hopefully get on his way up. Bingo
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 18, 2021 16:38:09 GMT -5
Holy Cross could be a coiled spring for a coach on his/her way up who is too confident, enthusiastic and driven to know that you can't win at HC.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 18, 2021 17:23:15 GMT -5
I appreciate nut job’s desire to think bigger about the possibilities for HC lacrosse with the right level of commitment. Not sure the Clemson football comparison is a good one. Wait...you’re not sure? I was trying to be polite.
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