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Post by Tom on Mar 10, 2021 8:36:14 GMT -5
I hope to see that explosion of the TP quite soon. I am sure it has created opportunities for a few athletes who made a poor choice of colleges and felt trapped. However, IMHO from well outside it does seem that abuses outweigh positive moves through the TP. How can following the rules be an abuse? Not sure how many abuses there are in the transfer portal, but recruiting is probably the most abuse filled aspect of college basketball. If they get rid of the one year sit out period, there will be greater incentive for unscrupulous coaches to abuse the system. You can probably add those same coaches will be tempted to expand the recruitment abuses to retaining their players
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 10, 2021 10:16:36 GMT -5
Grasso reported to be a finalist for the Fordham job - so the Rams can go for him now if they want Grasso was very unimpressive tonight, looking like a sweaty mess on the sideline. If he couldn’t handle an 11-10 MOUNT team coached by coach e and whose best win this year was vs #213 Wagner, I don’t think he’s the guy to turn the Fordham disaster around. Maybe that coaching tree is just a little bit better than you give them credit for...
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 10, 2021 10:26:26 GMT -5
Grasso was very unimpressive tonight, looking like a sweaty mess on the sideline. If he couldn’t handle an 11-10 MOUNT team coached by coach e and whose best win this year was vs #213 Wagner, I don’t think he’s the guy to turn the Fordham disaster around. Maybe that coaching tree is just a little bit better than you give them credit for... What coaching tree are you talking about? Am I missing something or is Engelstad the only assistant still in D1 basketball, while the “leader” of the tree will likely never get another D1 head coaching job and wasn’t even given the acting HC tag at Pittwhen Jeff Capel wasn’t available this year?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 10, 2021 11:00:00 GMT -5
As long as you're at it, how about yet another update on just how horrible Nate Pine is?
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 10, 2021 11:36:30 GMT -5
Maybe that coaching tree is just a little bit better than you give them credit for... What coaching tree are you talking about? Am I missing something or is Engelstad the only assistant still in D1 basketball, while the “leader” of the tree will likely never get another D1 head coaching job and wasn’t even given the acting HC tag at Pittwhen Jeff Capel wasn’t available this year? Lol. I did not realize the only yardstick for success is being a head coach in D1. In that case, Willard's tree is virtually non-existent. Sorry, Andy Sachs. You seem to believe that your opportunities in life are purely a function of your capabilities - rather than luck and a whole host of other variables. Since they have left HC, Milan and his three assistants have all made the most of their opportunities. - Coach Brown is in the ACC
- Coach Dunlap has won three conference titles in five years
- Coach Engelstad has won everywhere he has been. In three years, he turned a pretty depleted roster into a conference champion.
Also, if you're tempted to include Daigneault in the Willard tree after only two years together, you can put Jamion Christian in Milan's tree.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 10, 2021 12:35:29 GMT -5
Thanks for that update. Perhaps coaching at HC is not the "career killer" that some have claimed in the past.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 10, 2021 12:35:55 GMT -5
What coaching tree are you talking about? Am I missing something or is Engelstad the only assistant still in D1 basketball, while the “leader” of the tree will likely never get another D1 head coaching job and wasn’t even given the acting HC tag at Pittwhen Jeff Capel wasn’t available this year? Lol. I did not realize the only yardstick for success is being a head coach in D1. In that case, Willard's tree is virtually non-existent. Sorry, Andy Sachs. You seem to believe that your opportunities in life are purely a function of your capabilities - rather than luck and a whole host of other variables. Since they have left HC, Milan and his three assistants have all made the most of their opportunities. - Coach Brown is in the ACC
- Coach Dunlap has won three conference titles in five years
- Coach Engelstad has won everywhere he has been. In three years, he turned a pretty depleted roster into a conference champion.
Also, if you're tempted to include Daigneault in the Willard tree after only two years together, you can put Jamion Christian in Milan's tree.
LMAO! You’re delusional if you want to even put Willard and Milan in the same sentence, and even more off the reservation if you want to discredit Willard for a rising star NBA HEAD COACH after giving Milan credit for a guy at an NAIA college that has a 6% graduation rate, per Google. In case you wanted some Willard names: Tom Crean, Darrin Horn, Sean Miller, Jim Christian, Kevin Nickleberry, Eric Eaton, Mark Daigneault
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 10, 2021 13:01:38 GMT -5
Lol. I did not realize the only yardstick for success is being a head coach in D1. In that case, Willard's tree is virtually non-existent. Sorry, Andy Sachs. You seem to believe that your opportunities in life are purely a function of your capabilities - rather than luck and a whole host of other variables. Since they have left HC, Milan and his three assistants have all made the most of their opportunities. - Coach Brown is in the ACC
- Coach Dunlap has won three conference titles in five years
- Coach Engelstad has won everywhere he has been. In three years, he turned a pretty depleted roster into a conference champion.
Also, if you're tempted to include Daigneault in the Willard tree after only two years together, you can put Jamion Christian in Milan's tree.
LMAO! You’re delusional if you want to even put Willard and Milan in the same sentence, and even more off the reservation if you want to discredit Willard for a rising star NBA HEAD COACH after giving Milan credit for a guy at an NAIA college that has a 6% graduation rate, per Google. In case you wanted some Willard names: Tom Crean, Darrin Horn, Sean Miller, Jim Christian, Kevin Nickleberry, Eric Eaton, Mark Daigneault I'll let you know when the next canonization ceremony is. I'll bet Milan wishes he coached one of the only scholarship-ed squads in the PL...interesting Willard left right when the rest of the league was fully caught-up...If we can bring up all of Willard's players and assistants at previous stints, let's mention that Milan is the one who built a D1 program up basically from scratch. It's interesting that the only real retort you had was to insult the academics of an employer - nothing about Coach Dunlap' results on the court. Also, I thought the only yardstick of success was D1 coaching; good to see DII head coaching stints now included. How many Willard assistants from HC are in D1 basketball today?
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Post by hc17 on Mar 10, 2021 13:10:17 GMT -5
I don't think we want to get into a back and forth regarding the tenures of Willard and Milan. One won championships, the other did not. Willard went to battle with those great Bucknell teams that found some success in the tourney. I wouldn't say Willard had a cake walk at HC. One coach had a sophisticated 2-3 match-up zone and the other couldn't break down a basic 2-3 zone...
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 10, 2021 13:33:04 GMT -5
I don't think we want to get into a back and forth regarding the tenures of Willard and Milan. One won championships, the other did not. Willard went to battle with those great Bucknell teams that found some success in the tourney. I wouldn't say Willard had a cake walk at HC. One coach had a sophisticated 2-3 match-up zone and the other couldn't break down a basic 2-3 zone... End.
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Post by HC92 on Mar 10, 2021 14:42:33 GMT -5
1. RW was obviously a better college basketball coach than MB
2. MB was not nearly as bad as some here claimed him to be and was dramatically better than anyone else since Willard. Hopefully Nelson makes that a false statement soon but it’s true until further notice.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 10, 2021 15:58:11 GMT -5
The funny thing is, I never claimed Milan was as successful as Willard - especially at HC. I simply criticized the obviously false contrast asserted by BBC. Willard is not a god, and Milan was not an absolute failure. Moreover, arguing that RW did not have a "cake walk" is blatantly changing my argument. If you really don't think that coaching scholarship players when your counterpart does not is an advantage, let's save a ton of money by rescinding them.
Also, the back-and-forth started when BBC failed to express any congratulations towards a former HC AC who just punched his ticket to the tourney, and in fact went out of his way to play down the accomplishment by blaming his opponent for losing. That is why I said those coaches are better than BBC and many others on this Board want to admit.
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Post by Xmassader on Mar 10, 2021 16:23:19 GMT -5
Interesting that hc17 referenced the ‘13-‘14 semi-final game between AU and HC in terms of breaking down a basic 2-3 zone. Dan E must have taken something from that game. Last night the Mt. shredded Bryant’s 2-3 zone, so much so that Dan Dakich was repeatedly saying that Bryant needed to get out of the zone and go MTM. When they did so, they were able to reduce the Mt.’s lead from double digits to 3 pts.
On a slightly different note related to the Bryant zone, it did not appear that Grasso enhanced his chances to land the Fordham job if the Fordham AD was watching last night’s game. Seemed like he stayed in the zone too long and didn’t have an answer for MSM’s sticky D.
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Post by trimster on Mar 10, 2021 16:32:04 GMT -5
The funny thing is, I never claimed Milan was as successful as Willard - especially at HC. I simply criticized the obviously false contrast asserted by BBC. Willard is not a god, and Milan was not an absolute failure. Moreover, arguing that RW did not have a "cake walk" is blatantly changing my argument. If you really don't think that coaching scholarship players when your counterpart does not is an advantage, let's save a ton of money by rescinding them. Also, the back-and-forth started when BBC failed to express any congratulations towards a former HC AC who just punched his ticket to the tourney, and in fact went out of his way to play down the accomplishment by blaming his opponent for losing. That is why I said those coaches are better than BBC and many others on this Board want to admit. RW had no control over the scholarship situation in the PL. I don’t when The PA schools and Colgate started to give scholarships but at the most his teams played 8 games a year against league opponents w/o schollies plus the playoffs and his first couple of squads still had some non-schollie classes. His teams competed very well with full scholarship opponents outside the PL. RW has clearly been an aberration since the entry into the PL. The man could coach and was a master at making the whole greater than the sum of its parts.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 10, 2021 16:48:52 GMT -5
The funny thing is, I never claimed Milan was as successful as Willard - especially at HC. I simply criticized the obviously false contrast asserted by BBC. Willard is not a god, and Milan was not an absolute failure. Moreover, arguing that RW did not have a "cake walk" is blatantly changing my argument. If you really don't think that coaching scholarship players when your counterpart does not is an advantage, let's save a ton of money by rescinding them. Also, the back-and-forth started when BBC failed to express any congratulations towards a former HC AC who just punched his ticket to the tourney, and in fact went out of his way to play down the accomplishment by blaming his opponent for losing. That is why I said those coaches are better than BBC and many others on this Board want to admit. RW had no control over the scholarship situation in the PL. I don’t when The PA schools and Colgate started to give scholarships but at the most his teams played 8 games a year against league opponents w/o schollies plus the playoffs and his first couple of squads still had some non-schollie classes. His teams competed very well with full scholarship opponents outside the PL. RW has clearly been an aberration since the entry into the PL. The man could coach and was a master at making the whole greater than the sum of its parts. What does his control, or lack thereof, have to do with the fact that he did indeed have the advantage? 8 games, out of 14, against non-schollie opponents is a heck of an advantage - especially when two of the scholarship schools are military academies with a whole set of recruiting restrictions (e.g., recruiting in an immediately post-9/11 era, this particular example obviously had a lagged effect). Again, I am not saying RW was not a great coach. But, his successes do not negate his shortcomings or eradicate the context in which he worked. Presumably, most of us are alumni of this institution that teaches you, more than anything else, to be able to think critically. We should be able to have more nuanced discussions than "Willard is god; Milan and Carmody suck; and, Nelson is the second coming."
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Post by hchoops on Mar 10, 2021 16:58:12 GMT -5
Interesting that hc17 referenced the ‘13-‘14 semi-final game between AU and HC in terms of breaking down a basic 2-3 zone. Dan E must have taken something from that game. Last night the Mt. shredded Bryant’s 2-3 zone, so much so that Dan Dakich was repeatedly saying that Bryant needed to get out of the zone and go MTM. When they did so, they were able to reduce the Mt.’s lead from double digits to 3 pts. When Grasso went to man from the zone, it worked initially, then MSM’s terrific point guard shredded the man so badly that Grasso returned to the zone which after making a few stops, broke down from high post entries again.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 10, 2021 17:18:02 GMT -5
The funny thing is, I never claimed Milan was as successful as Willard - especially at HC. I simply criticized the obviously false contrast asserted by BBC. Willard is not a god, and Milan was not an absolute failure. Moreover, arguing that RW did not have a "cake walk" is blatantly changing my argument. If you really don't think that coaching scholarship players when your counterpart does not is an advantage, let's save a ton of money by rescinding them. Also, the back-and-forth started when BBC failed to express any congratulations towards a former HC AC who just punched his ticket to the tourney, and in fact went out of his way to play down the accomplishment by blaming his opponent for losing. That is why I said those coaches are better than BBC and many others on this Board want to admit. I didn’t realize I was obligated to congratulate coach e for winning the 2nd worst non-HBCU conference in the country. Mea culpa!! Please wake me up when one member of the infamous Milan Brown Coaching Tree has a D1 record > .450
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Post by cmo on Mar 10, 2021 19:51:14 GMT -5
RW beat a lot of scholarship programs, most with better resources and less stringent standards.
I’ll never understand HC fans who use the scholarship argument against RW or Duffner. It’s as if they don’t count the ooc.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 10, 2021 20:25:50 GMT -5
Remember that there were also scholarships based on need that secured some talent for those teams that were "non-scholarship"and one or two talented preferred walk-on players can take a non-sports scholarship team pretty far. Those are not mentioned if they do not advance the argument put forward. RW did a good job with what he had.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 10, 2021 22:33:36 GMT -5
Yet another thread completely off the rails.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 11, 2021 7:42:50 GMT -5
RW beat a lot of scholarship programs, most with better resources and less stringent standards. I’ll never understand HC fans who use the scholarship argument against RW or Duffner. It’s as if they don’t count the ooc. It's not as if I'm not counting the OOC; I just assign much more weight to PL play - because that is what matters so much more in a one-bid league. I'll turn your second point around. I will never understand HC fans who cannot acknowledge that maybe Ralph wasn't perfect. I am just as Purple as anyone here (I grew up in a HC household), yet every time I bring up one of his flaws/context, posters feel the need to underscore a point that I myself have never disputed (i.e., that he was a great coach).
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 11, 2021 7:45:10 GMT -5
Remember that there were also scholarships based on need that secured some talent for those teams that were "non-scholarship"and one or two talented preferred walk-on players can take a non-sports scholarship team pretty far. Those are not mentioned if they do not advance the argument put forward. RW did a good job with what he had. Again, I do not dispute that he did a good job with what he had. If scholarships do not provide a distinct advantage, let's rescind them and save tuition money paid by everyone else.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 11, 2021 7:57:04 GMT -5
Getting back to The Mount - the Sporting News has MSM in the first round of 68, along with Drexel (CAA), NC A&T (MEAC), and App State (Sun Belt). If somehow Loyola knocks off Colgate I suppose one of these teams would get promoted.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 11, 2021 11:09:01 GMT -5
I don't hate Duke nearly as much as some folks do. But this year, I do; they don't deserve a whiff of March Madness unless they string together 5 wins in the ACC Tourney. An at large bid for them is screwing someone else.
(edit) and now they are out of the ACC tournament via the same route as Holy Cross. No way their resume, which is now frozen, earns a bid.
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Post by rickii on Mar 11, 2021 12:04:32 GMT -5
I don't hate Duke nearly as much as some folks do. But this year, I do; they don't deserve a whiff of March Madness unless they string together 5 wins in the ACC Tourney. An at large bid for them is screwing someone else. (edit) and now they are out of the ACC tournament via the same route as Holy Cross. No way their resume, which is now frozen, earns a bid.I call challenge simply because K can get away with an awful lot....and does. I have lots of company thinking this move is bogus
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