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Post by HC92 on Aug 12, 2021 8:51:02 GMT -5
I think that HC's housing is holding it back. "Kids today" don't really want the traditional two to a room experience most of us enjoyed and at many of the schools my kids looked at, they did not have to live like that after the first year. Per the website, this is the set up right now. First years--Brooks (fka Mulledy) Clark and Hanselman--traditional two person rooms with the capacity for all first years and their RAs Sophomores--Healy, Lehy and Wheeler--traditional two person rooms for all sophs Upperclassmen--Figge and Williams (seniors only) apartments with full kitchens for about 400 students total. Alumni/Carlin--suites--no kitchens Loyola--suites--no kitchens From what I have seen elsewhere, the lack of singles and the need to eat in the dining hall as juniors are probably a drawback to attracting students in the first place and keeping them on campus once they are there. Some colleges have gone into business with developers to build townhouses. The college provides the land, the developer builds the building at its expense, the college collects the room fees and pays the developer minus a cut. I would assume that maintainence is shared somehow. HC could take that land it has acquired and do this. Move most of the seniors to that housing. Move the juniors to the Figge and Brooks apartments with kitchens. Let some sophomores live in Carlin and Alumni. Make singles available to sophomores and up. Admit 75 more kids per year. Obviously, it is more complicated than this, but I hope they are thinking about this. These things are always more complicated than they would seem from the outside but I think you are right that better housing options would help HC attract more applicants. Hopefully, we will move in that direction under President Rougeau.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 12, 2021 10:19:19 GMT -5
The plan, last I heard, was:
1.) build a new, smaller Jesuit residence. 1A.) Convert Ciampi into a student residence. 2.) build a new residence hall(s) on City View, which may be townhouse style. 3.) Rebuild the Easy St residence halls, plus Loyola.
With the beds gained from Ciampi and the new residence hall(s), they could do two of the smaller Easy St dorms simultaneously over a 12+ month period.
The cost is about $300 million, and as Northeastern has done, the college may turn to a private developer to build the new residence hall(s), thus reducing the borrowing and the amount of long-term debt.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 12, 2021 13:47:48 GMT -5
When we were touring colleges with my daughter, about ten years ago, I was struck by how often colleges had spent a lot of money on athletic facilities, campus centers, and dining halls, and very little money on dorms. These were selective liberal arts schools in the Midwest (Carleton, MaCalester, Oberlin, etc.). I guess the idea was to get as much glitz from your spending as possible. The schools with the most money however spend on housing too. I know Wellesley does; my wife went to Vanderbilt and my daughter is now there in graduate school, and they do as well. With a shrinking applicant pool there's probably no choice but to amp up the housing options.
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Post by hc89 on Aug 12, 2021 14:44:23 GMT -5
I think that HC's housing is holding it back. "Kids today" don't really want the traditional two to a room experience most of us enjoyed and at many of the schools my kids looked at, they did not have to live like that after the first year. Per the website, this is the set up right now. First years--Brooks (fka Mulledy) Clark and Hanselman--traditional two person rooms with the capacity for all first years and their RAs Sophomores--Healy, Lehy and Wheeler--traditional two person rooms for all sophs Upperclassmen--Figge and Williams (seniors only) apartments with full kitchens for about 400 students total. Alumni/Carlin--suites--no kitchens Loyola--suites--no kitchens From what I have seen elsewhere, the lack of singles and the need to eat in the dining hall as juniors are probably a drawback to attracting students in the first place and keeping them on campus once they are there. Some colleges have gone into business with developers to build townhouses. The college provides the land, the developer builds the building at its expense, the college collects the room fees and pays the developer minus a cut. I would assume that maintainence is shared somehow. HC could take that land it has acquired and do this. Move most of the seniors to that housing. Move the juniors to the Figge and Brooks apartments with kitchens. Let some sophomores live in Carlin and Alumni. Make singles available to sophomores and up. Admit 75 more kids per year. Obviously, it is more complicated than this, but I hope they are thinking about this. Don’t disagree…I do think HC has fallen way behind in the dorms/amenities department…What I do disagree with is HC grouping classes exclusively by dorms. While I understand that you will have upperclassmen for the most part in Williams and Figge, I think one the most enriching aspects of my Holy Cross experience was getting to live on a hall with members of all classes when I was a freshman. It as great to have some older guys around to “show us the ropes”, teach us the traditions, etc. I wish HC would go back to that on some level. I think it was one of the things that made HC very special.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 12, 2021 15:27:17 GMT -5
On the other hand, in the 60s the dorms were class dominated. One got to know most of his(only, then) entire class by graduation. Great for reunions also.
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Post by hc6774 on Aug 12, 2021 15:30:22 GMT -5
On the other hand, in the 60s the dorms were class dominated. One got to know most of his(only, then) entire class by graduation. Great for reunions also. and fund raising
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Post by timholycross on Aug 12, 2021 17:40:31 GMT -5
My class, 69, had the freshmen in Beaven, Carlin, Alumni, Wheeler. Only Wheeler (I think) had upperclassmen too.
Again, with the possible exception of Wheeler, no one stayed in the aforementioned dorms after that year.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 12, 2021 17:49:14 GMT -5
Fall of '66, freshmen were in Alumni, Beaven, Wheeler and Carlin shared freshmen with sophomores. Alumni was a dump with silverfish infestations. Thrilled to move to Wheeler sophomore year, then Healy the last 2 years where we could walk straight out the back door and get to the side door of Hogan (100' ?) even in a rain or snow storm without getting very wet at all.
P.O. Box 1524 starting in lower Kimball moved to new building Hogan sophomore year. Remembered the combo for about 20-25 years but now erased from my memory banks.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 12, 2021 18:01:36 GMT -5
Fall of '63 frosh were in Wheeler and Beaven / sophs were in Carlin and Alumni and the upper classmen were in the "new" dorms up the hill.
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Post by Majestic Mapp on Aug 12, 2021 18:20:33 GMT -5
NU is ascendant at the moment. NU focused on changes that positively affected the U.S. News scoring and rankings. See article below. All credit to them -- I think their strategy enabled them to attract higher caliber students. NORTHEASTERN’S RISE IN THE U.S. NEWS COLLEGE RANKINGS
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 12, 2021 19:18:41 GMT -5
Very interesting article. As Holy Cross started to slide in USN&WR rankings, at a presidential reception I asked Fr. McFarland what plans there were to stem the drop in rankings. He fairly sniffed that he didn’t care about rankings as they did not measure the things that were valued at Holy Cross and he wasn’t going to change how things were done.
180 degrees different than the president in this article.
Not sure Fr. B didn’t have the same perspective as Fr. McF so it’ll be interesting to see if Vince has a different outlook.
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 12, 2021 23:07:57 GMT -5
Very interesting article. As Holy Cross started to slide in USN&WR rankings, at a presidential reception I asked Fr. McFarland what plans there were to stem the drop in rankings. He fairly sniffed that he didn’t care about rankings as they did not measure the things that were valued at Holy Cross and he wasn’t going to change how things were done. 180 degrees different than the president in this article. Not sure Fr. B didn’t have the same perspective as Fr. McF so it’ll be interesting to see if Vince has a different outlook. You've got a little Sam Donaldson in you.🙂 When the off campus partiers on Caro St. and surrounding streets started to disrupt the working class residential area the T&G and local politicians had a field day slamming HC and painting the administration as out of touch and the students as poorly behaved elitists. In an email exchange with Father McFarland I found him to react in a Pastoral way to his flock (the out of control partying students) rather than as a College President concerned about the image and reputation of the college. I admired that in a certain way but it isn't what propels a school up the rankings. Eventually he toughened up and HC mounted a PR and community relations response but the T&G was unrelenting and the issues seemed to last much longer than they should have. I think Father Brooks would have put a stop to that student behavior very quickly.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 12, 2021 23:47:53 GMT -5
in a proverbial nanosecond
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 13, 2021 5:30:52 GMT -5
Yes, an entirely consistent example of my point above. As for "pastoral," that was perhaps the strong suit of his successor and in my farewell note to Fr. B I told him that he was perhaps the most "pastoral" HC president in my lifetime and while I didn't agree with some of his decisions and actions I did see him as "the man in the arena" and I respected that. I will take your reference to Sam Donaldson as a backhanded compliment. I will say that despite some of my conversations like that with Fr. McF, he surprised me by going out of his way at Fr. K's funeral to say hello to me as I was walking from the HC cemetery with a Jesuit I know well from my IVC days. In the same circumstances, not sure Fr. B would do the same. Back to my main point, I think that HC presidents (and BoTs) over the last couple of decades, maybe longer, were firm in their belief that they had a mission and college rankings be damned. And respecting that principle, we've dropped significantly in the rankings that so many potential students and their families use as a reference.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 13, 2021 7:44:18 GMT -5
NU is ascendant at the moment. NU focused on changes that positively affected the U.S. News scoring and rankings. See article below. All credit to them -- I think their strategy enabled them to attract higher caliber students. NORTHEASTERN’S RISE IN THE U.S. NEWS COLLEGE RANKINGSAs the 2014 article notes, NU's improvements through the late 80's and early 90's hadn't really budged the ratings needle but some of the ratings- focused steps NU has taken since the mid- 90's to improve its image and attract higher caliber academic kids have moved NU up in the USN&WR rankings. For some this is 25-year-old news, others may not have paid attention. HC may not have taken the steps it should have in the late 80's and 90's and may not have taken the ratings-focused steps NU has taken since the mid 90's to improve its image and attract higher caliber academic kids and thus has not moved up in the USN&WR rankings. I do find locally the kids and their parents hit Naviance now even more than USN&WR - for slightly different reasons. (I've seen the 33-34/1450-1500ish kid look at the various Catholic colleges on Naviance and adjust fire appropriately...)
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 13, 2021 8:09:54 GMT -5
Kudos to Northeastern, but in reading the article some of their improved standing is based on smoke and mirrors and some is based on substantive improvements. If only HC would start marketing itself more aggressively there is a lot to work with: beautiful campus, great facilities, excellent faculty, great student/faculty ratio, good financial aid, outstanding alumni network, need I go on? NU has 27,000 students and an endowment roughly the same size as HC's. I see HC has tweaked its web site. It looks fine, but I hope PVR will undertake a sustained, thoughtful, aggressive, well-funded marketing campaign.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 13, 2021 8:49:52 GMT -5
There are games that can be played with statistics to raise a college's scores in many evaluations. I clearly remember Fr. Brooks speaking to this and saying he would not do it. Might it be time to start doing just that?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 13, 2021 9:04:04 GMT -5
IMO, too little credit is being given to Fr. B., and the current BoT with respect to improving HC's brand, image, etc. 1.) Read Marisa Gregg's C.V. news.holycross.edu/blog/2020/08/05/holy-cross-names-marisa-gregg-vice-president-for-communications-and-marketing/2.) IMO, Ann was nudged out the door. A new Vice-Provost for Enrollment Management was named, with zero previous connection to HC or Worcester, and who now oversees admissions. 3.) IMO, a previous chair of the BoT had a Worcester-centric background, and this may have contributed to a parochial world-view. 4.) A militant crusader image / brand does not attract women to an institution. And women increasingly are the majority gender on Mt. St. James, and on other campuses as well.
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Post by hcpride on Aug 13, 2021 9:50:47 GMT -5
The 2014 article ( NORTHEASTERN’S RISE IN THE U.S. NEWS COLLEGE RANKINGS) is careful to note that NU's improvements began prior to 1996 but only after that did they pay close attention to items that would lead to statistical improvements. Others have pointed out that BC really took off in the rankings in the mid-late '80's and BU about the same time as NU. This is ancient and quite well known history in the college admissions world We did take some steps that were quite helpful in the rankings. Imagine where we would have been without the statistical benefits of 'test score optional' and without dipping quite heavily into the early decision (and now early decision II) pools. [Some other schools resisted going ED for quite a while.] Plus, oddly enough, having so many recruited athletes filling slots is a benefit statistically. We may get slapped around in the upcoming USN&WR rankings (I hear our applications dipped a bit). Of course we can fill our classes and balance our books so things are not dire in that regard - we'd just like to see our academic reputation back to where it once was relative to other schools.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 13, 2021 9:56:57 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, the early ranking in USN+W gave great weight to the ranking of other colleges done by participating schools. Some schools would purposely rank potential competitors quite low (HC for one). That dropped HC in rank. It was phony from the get go and called some to question the rank put out by that publication. After all, their goal was to increase their subscriptions/sales to get more for ads. It was not to benefit anyone making a college selection.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 13, 2021 10:08:10 GMT -5
Here is an "honest" site on college rank. In the smaller print you find this. "Collegerank.net is an advertising-supported site. Featured or sponsored partner programs and all school search, finder, or match results are for schools that compensate us. This compensation does not influence our school rankings, resource guides, or other editorially-independent information published on this site." OK, we (the college rank site) will only promote you if you pay us, but we are really objective in what we say. Sure you are. Not surprisingly, if you want the rank of liberal arts degrees, HC is not mentioned on the site.
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Post by HC92 on Aug 13, 2021 10:10:28 GMT -5
The bottom line is we have been trending in the wrong direction for many years. Hopefully we can turn it around quickly. HC is definitely not perceived the same way as it once was by many of the people who matter (college applicants, their parents and those advising them).
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Post by alum on Aug 13, 2021 10:11:35 GMT -5
89-- I agree with you about the mixing of classes in dorms. My proposal above simply adopted the current policy. I lived in a hill dorm for four years. There were always two or three freshmen rooms on each side of the floor. I agree that you learned the ropes, found out which profs to take or avoid, etc.
At a minimum, I would mix first year and sophs.
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Post by rgs318 on Aug 13, 2021 10:18:59 GMT -5
When my son was at Fairfield, they went to dedicated frosh dorms. They did this, they said, because they thought the upperclassmen were a "bad influence" on some issues - like frosh drinking. What happened was a sharp increase that first year in frosh hospitalizations from alcohol poisoning and other negative effects. It seems the upperclassmen (especially among the women) provided newcomers with basic tips on survival in a very different atmosphere than many knew back home. The new policy which tried to separate the frosh did not last long.
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 13, 2021 15:51:49 GMT -5
IMO, too little credit is being given to Fr. B., and the current BoT with respect to improving HC's brand, image, etc. 1.) Read Marisa Gregg's C.V. news.holycross.edu/blog/2020/08/05/holy-cross-names-marisa-gregg-vice-president-for-communications-and-marketing/2.) IMO, Ann was nudged out the door. A new Vice-Provost for Enrollment Management was named, with zero previous connection to HC or Worcester, and who now oversees admissions. 3.) IMO, a previous chair of the BoT had a Worcester-centric background, and this may have contributed to a parochial world-view. 4.) A militant crusader image / brand does not attract women to an institution. And women increasingly are the majority gender on Mt. St. James, and on other campuses as well. I believe the previous Board Chair KC married into a Worcester family but was a Scranton Prep grad. He might have played little league with President Joe.
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