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Post by rgs318 on Jan 24, 2021 18:29:31 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe MB could get an extra year past TPTB. They can't be pleased with MBB so far under CBN. What message would it send to other coaches? There's a Chinese fire drill (no offense if that phrase is no longer PC) out the door by student athletes, you go 3-29 and then get rewarded? The message could well be that this is no longer "hands off." The coach has a directive to turn things around and to get the players to do it. Almost everyone, perhaps even TPTB, knew that meant a major turnover in players. There is already marked improvement in talent on this team. Last year's record was of no importance with all the changes underway. Did anyone "like" it? Of course not. That includes the players and the coaches themselves. I believe all that was lost has been more than replaced for this year and the future. The only loss that mattered was Pridgen and, from how he is playing, Gates more than makes jump for that. There will be some who see whatever they want when they look at the play of this team...good or bad. As to "ignoring" what is going on...that is over. The mediocrity of recent years is over. Let's see how this group looks when everyone is fully on board (meaning Coulibaly) and able to fit in with teammates. There is no "Chinese fire drill" of exiting players (and whether or not it is PC, I find that description really offensive). Those who keep bringing up the portal again and again may bee trying to bring that about, but I don't see these players as planning to bail out any time soon. IMHO they have bought into the plans of the coaches and things will continue to improve through this year. Next year, assuming the pandemic is in our rear view mirror - and that is a BIG assumption - I believe we will have a competitive team that is talented and deep. Can I guarantee that, of courser not. It is just ione man's opinion. But, as a fan of Holy Cross, the whining about evaluating and getting rid of yet another coach well before he has any real chance to get the ship turned around is getting a bit tedious. Stay well, all. Get your shots, continue to wear your masks, keep your social distance and stay well.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 24, 2021 18:31:57 GMT -5
No offense but I’d say HC basketball fans have exhibited quite a bit of “patience” over the many years. Really tired of losing and all the excuses to be honest. I get a down year or two but we are well beyond that. Two years? Not with these players and coaches. They deserve at least the patience we have shown in the past and what was done for others should not be dropped onto them.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 24, 2021 18:52:03 GMT -5
No offense but I’d say HC basketball fans have exhibited quite a bit of “patience” over the many years. Really tired of losing and all the excuses to be honest. I get a down year or two but we are well beyond that. But when you are underperforming, replace coaches and the downward cycle continues it becomes a self fulfilling declaration. It looks like the talent we are bringing in puts us at the top shelf of the league and I am not sure that would have been an accurate statement for more than a decade. I believe blossom has a plan for hoops, football, other sports, himself and the future of Holy Cross Athletics-if not we are toast during my lifetime. So with that I say many prayers
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2021 18:56:14 GMT -5
I find it hard to believe MB could get an extra year past TPTB. They can't be pleased with MBB so far under CBN. What message would it send to other coaches? There's a Chinese fire drill (no offense if that phrase is no longer PC) out the door by student athletes, you go 3-29 and then get rewarded? The message could well be that this is no longer "hands off." The coach has a directive to turn things around and to get the players to do it. Almost everyone, perhaps even TPTB, knew that meant a major turnover in players. There is already marked improvement in talent on this team. Last year's record was of no importance with all the changes underway. Did anyone "like" it? Of course not. That includes the players and the coaches themselves. I believe all that was lost has been more than replaced for this year and the future. The only loss that mattered was Pridgen and, from how he is playing, Gates more than makes jump for that. There will be some who see whatever they want when they look at the play of this team...good or bad. As to "ignoring" what is going on...that is over. The mediocrity of recent years is over. Let's see how this group looks when everyone is fully on board (meaning Coulibaly) and able to fit in with teammates. There is no "Chinese fire drill" of exiting players (and whether or not it is PC, I find that description really offensive). Those who keep bringing up the portal again and again may bee trying to bring that about, but I don't see these players as planning to bail out any time soon. IMHO they have bought into the plans of the coaches and things will continue to improve through this year. Next year, assuming the pandemic is in our rear view mirror - and that is a BIG assumption - I believe we will have a competitive team that is talented and deep. Can I guarantee that, of courser not. It is just ione man's opinion. But, as a fan of Holy Cross, the whining about evaluating and getting rid of yet another coach well before he has any real chance to get the ship turned around is getting a bit tedious. Stay well, all. Get your shots, continue to ear your masks, keep your social distance and stay well. I edited the fire drill phrase to "mass exit." Wish I could erase all my other faux pas that easily 🙂.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 24, 2021 18:59:36 GMT -5
In allocating credit for Gerrale Gates we should also recognize the strength and conditioning team for resculpting the guy into the figure he is today. He is down 20 pounds from his listed UNO weight and I am betting he is a step or two quicker and able to play 30+ minutes per game at a hjgh level. My only concern with Gates coming In was conditioning. The only negative I saw in some of his highlights was him sometimes lagging well behind the play in HS and, to a lesser extent, at UNO. He has clearly put in the work needed to play as much as he does in the way that he does. You have to be in tremendous physical shape to do what he’s doing this year.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2021 19:00:51 GMT -5
No offense but I’d say HC basketball fans have exhibited quite a bit of “patience” over the many years. Really tired of losing and all the excuses to be honest. I get a down year or two but we are well beyond that. But when you are underperforming, replace coaches and the downward cycle continues it becomes a self fulfilling declaration. It looks like the talent we are bringing in puts us at the top shelf of the league and I am not sure that would have been an accurate statement for more than a decade. I believe blossom has a plan for hoops, football, other sports, himself and the future of Holy Cross Athletics-if not we are toast during my lifetime. So with that I say many prayers Football appears to be in good shape. NP gave HC a golden handshake on the way out with the hiring of Chesney. It usually works the other way when there is a change of AD or Coach, so things balance out.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 24, 2021 19:34:33 GMT -5
Ok so when will someone start to listen. How long will this be tolerated? Judging by your post history, you appear to really have something against Nelson - perhaps in relation to one of the program’s recent miscreants and/or defectors? The fact of the matter is that Nelson inherited a program whose three previous coaches did an absolutely miserable job and a roster that was a total dumpster fire. The idea that he (or anyone) could completely turn things around in 8 regular months + 10 global pandemic months is pure lunacy. Nelson has done somewhere between a good and great job turning over the roster so far, and he has us on pace to have an exponentially more talented and balanced roster in his third year compared to what he inherited. There is work to be done with the product on the floor, but this is an extremely inexperienced roster that has played 8 D1 games together. If we still look like this during PL play next year, that may be time to sound the alarm, but we’re nowhere near that point now.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2021 19:42:35 GMT -5
Admittedly, I’m kind of skimming posts after my question but don’t think I saw any positive comments in answer to my question about what Nelson us doing RIGHT as a GAME coach. I know many feel his recruiting has been superior with much better athletes. My question is really how does he utilize them during games?
Is he starting the right players? Does he call timeouts at the right times? Does he have good game plans against specific opponents? Does he make necessary adjustments to those plans? Does he listen to assistants who may have alternative strategies? Is he flexible when needed? You get the idea.
I am semi-conceding (not yet 100% convinced) he’s bringing in better players. Jehyve, Malcolm, Jave, Tory, Whearty, etc. have to be exceeded before I am convinced. And, yes, that’ll take some years before we’ll know that.
P.S. I ask because I honestly don’t have the expertise many here do. My basketball coaching consisted of an undefeated 4-0 record as CYO coach when the regular head coach got sick.😊
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Post by matunuck on Jan 24, 2021 19:49:06 GMT -5
But when you are underperforming, replace coaches and the downward cycle continues it becomes a self fulfilling declaration. It looks like the talent we are bringing in puts us at the top shelf of the league and I am not sure that would have been an accurate statement for more than a decade. I believe blossom has a plan for hoops, football, other sports, himself and the future of Holy Cross Athletics-if not we are toast during my lifetime. So with that I say many prayers Football appears to be in good shape. NP gave HC a golden handshake on the way out with the hiring of Chesney. It usually works the other way when there is a change of AD or Coach, so things balance out. Agree on Blossom.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2021 20:06:17 GMT -5
“Bill Carmody was the highest paid HC employee while he was there, so it is possible CBN is also in that category.”
Not only Carmody but Ralph was also paid the most at HC and even Milan. Sean there in a cameo appearance so I never checked him.
As bad a job as Carmody did, he came to the College with many years experience as a head coach and would be shocked if Nelson got paid anything like Carmody coming in. Perhaps a contract with lots of success incentives. That said, I am sure he still gets paid close to if not the most of anyone atop the hill.
From memory, there is a 2 year lag on federal 990 forms before we’ll know for sure.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2021 20:40:46 GMT -5
“Bill Carmody was the highest paid HC employee while he was there, so it is possible CBN is also in that category.” Not only Carmody but Ralph was also paid the most at HC and even Milan. Sean there in a cameo appearance so I never checked him. As bad a job as Carmody did, he came to the College with many years experience as a head coach and would be shocked if Nelson got paid anything like Carmody coming in. Perhaps a contract with lots of success incentives. That said, I am sure he still gets paid close to if not the most of anyone atop the hill. From memory, there is a 2 year lag on federal 990 forms before we’ll know for sure. This is my thinking, too. Carmody was lauded for outperforming expectations for NWU in the big ten and for achieving excellence at Princeton in the Ivy, both requiring high academic recruiting, blah, blah, blah. He didn't meet expectations at HC obviously. I would think a career assistant would receive less than Carmody in exchange for the opportunity to be a D-1 head coach and build from there. When Nelson was hired HC was the only D-1 opening so there should have been a bidding war for the job opening not the other way around.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 24, 2021 20:56:17 GMT -5
Agree that it’s very early in his tenure but my gut tells me we’ll eventually view BN’s tenure the way I view Milan’s tenure. Good recruiter, kids responded to him, good motivator, not going to be a great in-game coach or a guy who makes adjustments for every opponent or within every game that gives us a competitive advantage. Time will tell but that’s the way I see it at this early juncture. So far the recruiting looks pretty strong and maybe that’ll be enough to win another PL title one of these days. It worked for Mr. Reed for a while.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 24, 2021 20:58:42 GMT -5
Which leads to another question? How many above average Xs and Os coaches are there in the PL in 2021? Not many.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2021 21:04:56 GMT -5
Ok so when will someone start to listen. How long will this be tolerated? Judging by your post history, you appear to really have something against Nelson - perhaps in relation to one of the program’s recent miscreants and/or defectors? The fact of the matter is that Nelson inherited a program whose three previous coaches did an absolutely miserable job and a roster that was a total dumpster fire. The idea that he (or anyone) could completely turn things around in 8 regular months + 10 global pandemic months is pure lunacy. Nelson has done somewhere between a good and great job turning over the roster so far, and he has us on pace to have an exponentially more talented and balanced roster in his third year compared to what he inherited. There is work to be done with the product on the floor, but this is an extremely inexperienced roster that has played 8 D1 games together. If we still look like this during PL play next year, that may be time to sound the alarm, but we’re nowhere near that point now. You were right about Carmody, let's hope you go two for two.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 24, 2021 21:05:10 GMT -5
Agree that it’s very early in his tenure but my gut tells me we’ll eventually view BN’s tenure the way I view Milan’s tenure. So this isn’t going to end well then. Ugh. My hope is that Nelson brings in a seasoned X’s and O’s guy, unlike Milan who just had yes men. I know Nelson was dealt a dreadful hand, but he’s 5-35. It’s time to start winning some games against bottom 100 teams.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 24, 2021 21:07:04 GMT -5
Which leads to another question? How many above average Xs and Os coaches are there in the PL in 2021? Not many. Langel is very clearly the best coach in this league. I’m still shocked a bigger school hasn’t scooped him up (what are you doing hiring Billy Lange, St. Joe’s?). I think Ed DeChellis is pretty solid. Not many other coaches stand out to me. Nate Davis has been a colossal disappointment.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 24, 2021 21:20:14 GMT -5
Agree that it’s very early in his tenure but my gut tells me we’ll eventually view BN’s tenure the way I view Milan’s tenure. So this isn’t going to end well then. Ugh. My hope is that Nelson brings in a seasoned X’s and O’s guy, unlike Milan who just had yes men. I know Nelson was dealt a dreadful hand, but he’s 5-35. It’s time to start winning some games against bottom 100 teams. That's a positive suggestion. And X's and O's change a little between college divisions, but not the fundamentals, so there is a pretty big pond to fish in.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jan 24, 2021 21:34:46 GMT -5
Practically, CBN is going nowhere anytime soon. He is ADMBs “hire” so there is zero sense of urgency to move on, especially given the financial state of the College related to the pandemic. He likely has at least 3 years left on his deal after this season as one of the highest paid employees of the college - if not the highest paid. Bill Carmody was the highest paid HC employee while he was there, so it is possible CBN is also in that category. I believe the Chief Investment Officer, who departed last year, was the highest paid employee at ~$400k per year.
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Post by ericobeyyourthirst on Jan 24, 2021 22:04:18 GMT -5
Ok so when will someone start to listen. How long will this be tolerated? Judging by your post history, you appear to really have something against Nelson - perhaps in relation to one of the program’s recent miscreants and/or defectors? The fact of the matter is that Nelson inherited a program whose three previous coaches did an absolutely miserable job and a roster that was a total dumpster fire. The idea that he (or anyone) could completely turn things around in 8 regular months + 10 global pandemic months is pure lunacy. Nelson has done somewhere between a good and great job turning over the roster so far, and he has us on pace to have an exponentially more talented and balanced roster in his third year compared to what he inherited. There is work to be done with the product on the floor, but this is an extremely inexperienced roster that has played 8 D1 games together. If we still look like this during PL play next year, that may be time to sound the alarm, but we’re nowhere near that point now. Good to great job turning the roster over?!?!? NEWSFLASH: check out how Dennis Gates is doing at Cleveland State, you know the guy who Holy Cross passed over for Nelson, and then tell me what you think of Nelson. That is a GREAT job in exactly the same position.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 24, 2021 22:17:20 GMT -5
Princeton, I stand corrected. You are right about the Investment Officer being most highly compensated. Without looking it up again, from memory, with incentives, bonuses and other comp it was north of $600K but then of course he left. That situation was not the usual on any given year.
Also, the head basketball coach at URI was historically the highest paid state employee in RI and Calhoun was highest in CT when he coached at UConn.
No question Brett is highly compensated and whether he is paid the most hardly matters. At HC, the basketball coach historically makes much more than the football coach regardless of their respective records or success . . . . . or lack thereof.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 24, 2021 22:31:43 GMT -5
Bill Carmody was the highest paid HC employee while he was there, so it is possible CBN is also in that category. I believe the Chief Investment Officer, who departed last year, was the highest paid employee at ~$400k per year. Jarry made more than Carmody in the fiscal year ending June 2017, thanks to a massive bonus. But Carmody earned more the next two years, as Jarry did not receive a bonus either year. For example, in the final year Carmody got about $443k in total compensation vs Jarry's $388k.
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Post by matunuck on Jan 24, 2021 22:35:03 GMT -5
“Wait til next year” has certainly been a popular phrase on this board over the many years. I guess the law of averages should make that true at some point. Sure hope so.
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Post by bison137 on Jan 24, 2021 22:39:04 GMT -5
Which leads to another question? How many above average Xs and Os coaches are there in the PL in 2021? Not many. Langel is very clearly the best coach in this league. I’m still shocked a bigger school hasn’t scooped him up (what are you doing hiring Billy Lange, St. Joe’s?). I think Ed DeChellis is pretty solid. Not many other coaches stand out to me. Nate Davis has been a colossal disappointment. Agree with all of the above. St. Joes is now 1-10 (0-7 in A10). If they care about winning, they should buy out Lange after this season and rectify their mistake. Get Langel before someone else does. He has been very picky about the jobs he interviews for, apparently wanting to get back to Philly.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jan 24, 2021 22:44:58 GMT -5
Judging by your post history, you appear to really have something against Nelson - perhaps in relation to one of the program’s recent miscreants and/or defectors? The fact of the matter is that Nelson inherited a program whose three previous coaches did an absolutely miserable job and a roster that was a total dumpster fire. The idea that he (or anyone) could completely turn things around in 8 regular months + 10 global pandemic months is pure lunacy. Nelson has done somewhere between a good and great job turning over the roster so far, and he has us on pace to have an exponentially more talented and balanced roster in his third year compared to what he inherited. There is work to be done with the product on the floor, but this is an extremely inexperienced roster that has played 8 D1 games together. If we still look like this during PL play next year, that may be time to sound the alarm, but we’re nowhere near that point now. Good to great job turning the roster over?!?!? NEWSFLASH: check out how Dennis Gates is doing at Cleveland State, you know the guy who Holy Cross passed over for Nelson, and then tell me what you think of Nelson. That is a GREAT job in exactly the same position. Cleveland State vs Holy Cross = Apples vs Tractor Trailer Trucks I don’t know how you can possibly think the roster is not in better shape now than it was when Nelson arrived.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 24, 2021 22:48:49 GMT -5
Let's make Bob Chesney the highest paid HC employee asap with a nice long-term contract
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