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Post by purplehaze on Feb 17, 2021 20:51:39 GMT -5
Other than AL we shot 13 of 41 from the field - and overall we were outrebounded 38-21 - surprised we lost by only 18 Petro has been a regular starter and our tallest player - her lack of production has been a disappointment How about trying Demski in that spot ?
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Post by HC13 on Feb 17, 2021 21:03:48 GMT -5
Doesn't have the mobility to play the 3. I'm surprised against taller teams they haven't used her at the 5 & Ezemma at the 4 w/ P-C at the wing.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 17, 2021 22:30:06 GMT -5
She has started all 12 games, averaged 28 min/game but is only averaging 4 points and 4 rebounds per game - is she locking down the opponent's best forward on defense? Maybe if Allen gets healthy she can take some of those minutes - but in the meantime Kelly needs to pick up her game
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Post by timholycross on Feb 18, 2021 10:45:53 GMT -5
Holy Cross' games versus the better teams in the league have resulted in a 0-5 record so far, and none of the games have been close.
And that's w/o playing Bucknell and Navy, just BU and Lehigh.
They may have a better record than the men, but IMHO they're further away from any success than the guys are. Hope the recruits (Magarity's first, really) are good and the ones that are already there have better luck w/their health.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2021 13:37:25 GMT -5
Holy Cross' games versus the better teams in the league have resulted in a 0-5 record so far, and none of the games have been close. And that's w/o playing Bucknell and Navy, just BU and Lehigh. They may have a better record than the men, but IMHO they're further away from any success than the guys are. Hope the recruits (Magarity's first, really) are good and the ones that are already there have better luck w/their health. I will give credit to this year's team for beating teams that are beatable. One thing that was frustrating in past years is HC showing a flash of greatness by beating better teams and then balancing that by losing to lesser teams. In the PL if you can beat the teams you are supposed to, you have a good shot at a successful season because the talent level is such that inconsistency is baked into the cake and opportunities to catch better teams on a down day will be there.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 18, 2021 14:14:01 GMT -5
in other words 'the league stinks'
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Post by HC13 on Feb 18, 2021 14:48:55 GMT -5
in other words 'the league stinks' This year it does. I think most would agree that there is one very good team - Bucknell, a couple of good/decent teams in BU & Lehigh, 2 terrible teams in Colgate & Loyola and the rest - meh. On the other, last year the league had a half dozen good teams. Personally, HC has exceeded my expectations, going into the season, I thought going winless was very much in the cards.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 18, 2021 14:54:23 GMT -5
Holy Cross' games versus the better teams in the league have resulted in a 0-5 record so far, and none of the games have been close. And that's w/o playing Bucknell and Navy, just BU and Lehigh. They may have a better record than the men, but IMHO they're further away from any success than the guys are. Hope the recruits (Magarity's first, really) are good and the ones that are already there have better luck w/their health. I will give credit to this year's team for beating teams that are beatable. One thing that was frustrating in past years is HC showing a flash of greatness by beating better teams and then balancing that by losing to lesser teams. In the PL if you can beat the teams you are supposed to, you have a good shot at a successful season because the talent level is such that inconsistency is baked into the cake and opportunities to catch better teams on a down day will be there. Is it just me or is it others' here opinion that the team is incapable of extending any kind of defensive pressure? Due to two things, I would say: lack of overall quickness and (even more so) lack of depth.
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Post by HC13 on Feb 18, 2021 14:55:11 GMT -5
She has started all 12 games, averaged 28 min/game but is only averaging 4 points and 4 rebounds per game - is she locking down the opponent's best forward on defense? Maybe if Allen gets healthy she can take some of those minutes - but in the meantime Kelly needs to pick up her game Yes, she has been the best and most flexible defensive player on the team, covering both guards and forwards. At the beginning of the season she was showing a pretty good offensive game, don't know if she's hurt or just lost her confidence, but she is definitely not looking for her shot. I agree she needs regain her aggressiveness and take those open shots that she getting.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2021 14:59:21 GMT -5
I will give credit to this year's team for beating teams that are beatable. One thing that was frustrating in past years is HC showing a flash of greatness by beating better teams and then balancing that by losing to lesser teams. In the PL if you can beat the teams you are supposed to, you have a good shot at a successful season because the talent level is such that inconsistency is baked into the cake and opportunities to catch better teams on a down day will be there. Is it just me or is it others' here opinion that the team is incapable of extending any kind of defensive pressure? Due to two things, I would say: lack of overall quickness and (even more so) lack of depth. And lack of size which was evident vs BU.
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Post by HC13 on Feb 18, 2021 15:00:48 GMT -5
I will give credit to this year's team for beating teams that are beatable. One thing that was frustrating in past years is HC showing a flash of greatness by beating better teams and then balancing that by losing to lesser teams. In the PL if you can beat the teams you are supposed to, you have a good shot at a successful season because the talent level is such that inconsistency is baked into the cake and opportunities to catch better teams on a down day will be there. Is it just me or is it others' here opinion that the team is incapable of extending any kind of defensive pressure? Due to two things, I would say: lack of overall quickness and (even more so) lack of depth. My 2 cents, lack of depth, size & and even more so, experience. Really isn't a lot of team quickness top to bottom in this league currently.
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Post by lowerkimball on Feb 18, 2021 15:08:27 GMT -5
Agreed - the league overall has fallen off a cliff relative to the past two years. I actually consider BU right up there with Bucknell and - baring an upset - look forward to seeing them clash for the PLC.
HC has certainly benefited from a weak schedule but however you slice it a .500 record with a new coach coming off a year where 5 seniors graduated, including perhaps the most talented player in program history, has to be considered a success. It's refreshing to see a Holy Cross coach seemingly adopt the returning players as her own - especially the freshman who never played under the previous coach(es) - instead of forcing a system on them and running them all (especially the good ones!) out of town.
When looking towards the future, returning players are much more likely to remember their overall record at the end of the year as opposed to the level of talent said "Ws" came against.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2021 16:49:26 GMT -5
Agreed - the league overall has fallen off a cliff relative to the past two years. I actually consider BU right up there with Bucknell and - baring an upset - look forward to seeing them clash for the PLC. HC has certainly benefited from a weak schedule but however you slice it a .500 record with a new coach coming off a year where 5 seniors graduated, including perhaps the most talented player in program history, has to be considered a success. It's refreshing to see a Holy Cross coach seemingly adopt the returning players as her own - especially the freshman who never played under the previous coach(es) - instead of forcing a system on them and running them all (especially the good ones!) out of town. When looking towards the future, returning players are much more likely to remember their overall record at the end of the year as opposed to the level of talent said "Ws" came against. I don't agree - at least looking at the teams when they have a few consecutive games and practices. Looking team by team, based on quality of returnees and subjective factors, I'd compare this year to last year like this (at least when the teams have had a few consecutive weeks of games and practices): Bucknell - better this year; returned 8 of 9 rotation players from a team that went 16-2 in the PL last year. Boston U - better this year; returned all five starters from the second half of the season, plus added a pretty good transfer from Villanova. Lehigh - slightly better; the emergence of Frannie Hottinger as a likely All-PL player plus the addition of one good freshman has offset what they lost. American - hard to tell since they have played so few games; probably about the same, but they do have a POY candidate plus another very good returnee. Holy Cross - better than expected, but clearly not as good as last year. Army - clearly significantly better than last year. Navy - with Jennifer Coleman back from academic problems, they are a bit better than last year. Colgate - MUCH worse. Loyola - somewhat worse, due to the loss of star Stephanie Karcz. In total, I'd say the league is about as good as last year.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2021 16:52:29 GMT -5
in other words 'the league stinks' This year it does. I think most would agree that there is one very good team - Bucknell, a couple of good/decent teams in BU & Lehigh, 2 terrible teams in Colgate & Loyola and the rest - meh. On the other, last year the league had a half dozen good teams. Personally, HC has exceeded my expectations, going into the season, I thought going winless was very much in the cards. I think it is more perception due to teams having so many off-weeks and having had no OOC games. But quality-wise, I think the talent is at least as good. Last year, Massey ranked the PL 20th out of 32 teams. Way ahead of the MAAC, America East, and the NEC. This year they reank 20th out of 31 - but of course it is harder to judge since only Army and Navy played OOC games. Army is clearly a lot better than last year. Navy wasn't any better first semester, but they have improved a lot with the return of Jennifer Coleman from academic issues.
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Post by HC13 on Feb 18, 2021 17:17:58 GMT -5
Lafayette? I assume you would consider them a disappointment, or at least underperforming? They've stalled out, but I suppose they got the worst pod in the setup, put in the Group of Death.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2021 18:33:57 GMT -5
Lafayette? I assume you would consider them a disappointment, or at least underperforming? They've stalled out, but I suppose they got the worst pod in the setup, put in the Group of Death. Just realized I left them out. Definitely underperforming in a big way, and the Group of Death. I have watched them a few times and they don't seem well coached. It doesn't seem like they get the best out of Kucowski, who is the league's best player. Also in the games I've seen, their defense has been all zone - and not played particularly well.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2021 18:36:30 GMT -5
Agreed - the league overall has fallen off a cliff relative to the past two years. I actually consider BU right up there with Bucknell and - baring an upset - look forward to seeing them clash for the PLC. HC has certainly benefited from a weak schedule but however you slice it a .500 record with a new coach coming off a year where 5 seniors graduated, including perhaps the most talented player in program history, has to be considered a success. It's refreshing to see a Holy Cross coach seemingly adopt the returning players as her own - especially the freshman who never played under the previous coach(es) - instead of forcing a system on them and running them all (especially the good ones!) out of town. When looking towards the future, returning players are much more likely to remember their overall record at the end of the year as opposed to the level of talent said "Ws" came against. I also am refreshed by a coach who adopted the returning players as her own. Being a veteran mid major coach herself and the daughter of another one, she may know inherently you can't use a revolving door to build a winning team at this level. Successful PL teams develop players over four years and then reload not rebuild each year.
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Post by lowerkimball on Feb 18, 2021 20:49:09 GMT -5
I'll admit Bison, I'm impressed with your top to bottom knowledge of the league and its players but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
League wide, I think the talent of the senior classes that have graduated the past two seasons has been significantly better than the players that have replaced them. It's obviously hard to compare this year to the previous two due to the challenges related to the pandemic but what would be the fun of a message board without a good back and forth.
For the record, I'd take last years Bucknell team over this years (Mack!) and the '19 team over all of them!
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2021 21:50:47 GMT -5
I'll admit Bison, I'm impressed with your top to bottom knowledge of the league and its players but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. League wide, I think the talent of the senior classes that have graduated the past two seasons has been significantly better than the players that have replaced them. It's obviously hard to compare this year to the previous two due to the challenges related to the pandemic but what would be the fun of a message board without a good back and forth. For the record, I'd take last years Bucknell team over this years (Mack!) and the '19 team over all of them! I would take the 2019 team over the last two Bison teams also. However with 8 of their top 9 players back, I know I would pick this year's Bison team over the 2020 version and I think most Bison fans would also. Yes, Mack is a big loss. However Brugler has improved to the point she is on the short list for POY. Ceppi is significantly improved. O'Brien is significantly improved (some level of All PL), and Krsul is significantly improved. And Kapp and Allie Johnson are also strong players, a bit better than last year. Another factor is that this is the second year with a new coach and a new offensive/defensive system. There has been some improvement in understanding the different offense and defense they are using. As for their best team of the decade, you can also make a good case for the 2016 or 2017 teams. Had Jacquie Klotz - one of the top players in the history of the PL - not given up basketball for personal reasons after her soph year, I think the 2017 and 2018 teams would have been better than the 2019 version (or 2020 or 2021).
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 18, 2021 22:17:03 GMT -5
I'll admit Bison, I'm impressed with your top to bottom knowledge of the league and its players but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. League wide, I think the talent of the senior classes that have graduated the past two seasons has been significantly better than the players that have replaced them. It's obviously hard to compare this year to the previous two due to the challenges related to the pandemic but what would be the fun of a message board without a good back and forth. For the record, I'd take last years Bucknell team over this years (Mack!) and the '19 team over all of them! I would take the 2019 team over the last two Bison teams also. However with 8 of their top 9 players back, I know I would pick this year's Bison team over the 2020 version and I think most Bison fans would also. Yes, Mack is a big loss. However Brugler has improved to the point she is on the short list for POY. Ceppi is significantly improved. O'Brien is significantly improved (some level of All PL), and Krsul is significantly improved. And Kapp and Allie Johnson are also strong players, a bit better than last year. Another factor is that this is the second year with a new coach and a new offensive/defensive system. There has been some improvement in understanding the different offense and defense they are using. As for their best team of the decade, you can also make a good case for the 2016 or 2017 teams. Had Jacquie Klotz - one of the top players in the history of the PL - not given up basketball for personal reasons after her soph year, I think the 2017 and 2018 teams would have been better than the 2019 version (or 2020 or 2021). Bison, speaking of POY, Bucknell alum Molly Creamer was a three time PL POY. I assume she would start on your PL WBB all time team. Without requiring any research work and only from observation, who else would you put on a PL all time team?
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Post by bison137 on Feb 18, 2021 23:06:13 GMT -5
Hard for me to say since I didn't follow the women at all until about 2000. I think Creamer and Minato are the two best the league has produced. Creamer, as you likely know, was picked 10th in the first round of the WNBA draft.
Starting with 2000, here is a list of players with three or more 1st team All-PL accolades - or two 1st teams plus a 2nd team plus a POY: (I might have missed someone.)
M. Creamer (BU) - three 1st team, one 2nd team, three POY K. Minato (Ar) - four 1st team, three POY Anne Tierney (LU) - four 1st team Katie McFarland (Ar) - three 1st team, one 2nd team, one POY Lauren Manis (HC) - three 1st team, one 2nd team, one POY Cara Enright (Ar) - two 1st team, two 2nd team, one POY Erica Prosser (LU) - three 1st team, two POY Hope Foster (BU) - three 1st team, one POY Courtney Davidson (Na) - three 1st team Alex Smith (HC) - three 1st team Brianna McFadden (HC) - three 1st team Claire DeBoer (BU) - two 1st team, one 2nd team, one POY
Had she continued with basketball, I think Bucknell's Jacquie Klotz would be on this list. Likely three 1st team awards and one or two POY.
As I said, I didn't follow the women before 2000. Obviously Kathy Courtney belongs on the list. Also Lauren Maney. Others?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 19, 2021 0:14:28 GMT -5
Amy O'Brien was a dominant player on Championship teams. I wonder if Kelsey Minato will copy Roger Staubach and play professionally after her military commitment? Perhaps like other Service Academy grads she will stay in for 20-30 years and make a career out of it.
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Post by purple1 on Feb 19, 2021 9:21:12 GMT -5
Amy O'Brien was the best player in PL history. She could do it all - score, pass, defend & rebound. She ran the floor effortlessly and did not get tired. Her 37 point game against #1 UCONN is one of the most impressive efforts by a college player. Gino A. called her the best opponent they had ever faced.....
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Post by HC13 on Feb 19, 2021 9:39:40 GMT -5
Minato was undrafted, but did get a tryout with the Stars. I would add McFadden to the list of post 2000 players 2 1st team, 2 nd team & a POY
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Post by bison137 on Feb 19, 2021 9:55:28 GMT -5
Minato was undrafted, but did get a tryout with the Stars. I would add McFadden to the list of post 2000 players 2 1st team, 2 nd team & a POY 1. Yes, Minato did get a tryout with the Stars (San Antonio) after going undrafted. For those who don't know, she had been given a waiver by the Dept of Defense allowing her to play in the WNBA (but not Europe) if she made a team while serving her five years.. That period will be over soon, so I suppose it is possible she might try out again at some point - but I think it's very unlikely she would make a roster after being away five years. Also the talent level in the WNBA now is higher than when she tried out and got cut. 2. I've added McFadden.
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