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Post by hcpride on Feb 16, 2021 20:36:55 GMT -5
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Post by princetoncrusader on Feb 16, 2021 22:02:52 GMT -5
Most interesting factoid in the story--40 of Yale's 48 laxmen are either taking a gap year or transferring.
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Post by hcpride on Feb 17, 2021 8:39:04 GMT -5
Interesting rationale for the cancellation of Ivy Athletics:
Passing on a six-figure payout during a pandemic that’s rocked the financial foundation of college athletics would be foolhardy in any other conference. But the calculus is different in the Ivy League.
Money is not as big of a factor. Without lucrative television contracts, stadiums that seat tens of thousands or bowl-game berths, Ivy League football is a money-losing operation—as is every other sport. There are no athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.
Athletics are seen as an investment in student development, said Harris. This mind-set, backed by multibillion-dollar endowments, is why the Ivies field so many teams. Harvard, for example, sponsors 40 sports—nearly three times the NCAA Division I minimum of 14.
The schools also didn’t want to create a bifurcated college experience in which most undergraduates take classes from their dorm rooms while athletes get their noses swabbed multiple times per week to let them compete across the country.
“They [athletes] are students and they are treated like other students as much as we can,” Harris said. “That applies now as we are making decisions in the pandemic: our campus policies apply to our athletic activities and to our student athletes.”
(Unless I'm misreading, the expressed rationale was not a fear of increased risks to the athletes in practices and games [given the science] but rather the differentiated treatment for student athletes necessitated by potential athletic protocols.)
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Post by thecrossisback on Feb 17, 2021 10:49:31 GMT -5
This shows you about the IVY and athletics. Conference does so little for fans it's unbelievable.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Feb 17, 2021 11:50:38 GMT -5
I'm announcing here that I'm willing to write a check for whatever it takes to keep HC's equestrian team going.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 17, 2021 12:20:51 GMT -5
(Unless I'm misreading, the expressed rationale was not a fear of increased risks to the athletes in practices and games [given the science] but rather the differentiated treatment for student athletes necessitated by potential athletic protocols.) Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations?
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Post by rgs318 on Feb 17, 2021 12:24:42 GMT -5
The latter, I am afraid.
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Post by nhteamer on Feb 17, 2021 13:35:17 GMT -5
(Unless I'm misreading, the expressed rationale was not a fear of increased risks to the athletes in practices and games [given the science] but rather the differentiated treatment for student athletes necessitated by potential athletic protocols.) Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations? joking, right?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 17, 2021 14:18:57 GMT -5
Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations? joking, right? Very much so.
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2021 14:30:02 GMT -5
(Unless I'm misreading, the expressed rationale was not a fear of increased risks to the athletes in practices and games [given the science] but rather the differentiated treatment for student athletes necessitated by potential athletic protocols.) Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations? I'm sure you know the answer to that. Athletes in most Ivy sports are treated differently. However it should be noted that the Ivy academic index is much tougher than the PL index. There are many basketball players who have been offered PL scholarships (at every PL school) who could not qualify for admission in the Ivy League.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 17, 2021 14:47:33 GMT -5
Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations? I'm sure you know the answer to that. Athletes in most Ivy sports are treated differently. However it should be noted that the Ivy academic index is much tougher than the PL index. There are many basketball players who have been offered PL scholarships (at every PL school) who could not qualify for admission in the Ivy League.I didn't know this but it makes sense. After all, just about all regular students enrolled at Patriot League schools didn't get into Ivies, if they even applied.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 17, 2021 14:50:00 GMT -5
Interesting rationale for the cancellation of Ivy Athletics: Passing on a six-figure payout during a pandemic that’s rocked the financial foundation of college athletics would be foolhardy in any other conference. But the calculus is different in the Ivy League.
Money is not as big of a factor. Without lucrative television contracts, stadiums that seat tens of thousands or bowl-game berths, Ivy League football is a money-losing operation—as is every other sport. There are no athletic scholarships in the Ivy League.
Athletics are seen as an investment in student development, said Harris. This mind-set, backed by multibillion-dollar endowments, is why the Ivies field so many teams. Harvard, for example, sponsors 40 sports—nearly three times the NCAA Division I minimum of 14.
The schools also didn’t want to create a bifurcated college experience in which most undergraduates take classes from their dorm rooms while athletes get their noses swabbed multiple times per week to let them compete across the country.
“They [athletes] are students and they are treated like other students as much as we can,” Harris said. “That applies now as we are making decisions in the pandemic: our campus policies apply to our athletic activities and to our student athletes.”
(Unless I'm misreading, the expressed rationale was not a fear of increased risks to the athletes in practices and games [given the science] but rather the differentiated treatment for student athletes necessitated by potential athletic protocols.) I agree with this. It's nice someone was willing to offer up the money for a bubble but Ivy League lacrosse isn't the NBA. We're supposed to be talking about true student-athletes here.
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Post by alum on Feb 17, 2021 14:59:36 GMT -5
Are Ivy League basketball players held to the same admissions standards as non-athlete students, or does the treatment of some student-athletes only matter in certain situations? I'm sure you know the answer to that. Athletes in most Ivy sports are treated differently. However it should be noted that the Ivy academic index is much tougher than the PL index. There are many basketball players who have been offered PL scholarships (at every PL school) who could not qualify for admission in the Ivy League. Bison I know that this tangent started with a sarcastic comment, but since you mentioned the AI... I have long noticed that Ivy rosters are often larger than other D1 hoops schools--sometimes 18 or 19 guys. Is that a tool used to meet the AI? Put a few really smart guys on the roster to balance some weaker ones so that the team AI is within the required standard deviation from the campus wide AI?
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Post by bison137 on Feb 17, 2021 15:07:41 GMT -5
I'm sure you know the answer to that. Athletes in most Ivy sports are treated differently. However it should be noted that the Ivy academic index is much tougher than the PL index. There are many basketball players who have been offered PL scholarships (at every PL school) who could not qualify for admission in the Ivy League. Bison I know that this tangent started with a sarcastic comment, but since you mentioned the AI... I have long noticed that Ivy rosters are often larger than other D1 hoops schools--sometimes 18 or 19 guys. Is that a tool used to meet the AI? Put a few really smart guys on the roster to balance some weaker ones so that the team AI is within the required standard deviation from the campus wide AI? Yes, since the average is used. However, there is also a floor that no player can be below. (Similar to the PL.) The AI floor for Ivy basketball players is higher than any PL school. A significant number of PL players would not be admissible at Ivy schools.
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Post by lowerkimball on Feb 17, 2021 15:59:22 GMT -5
Bison is spot on regarding the AI at the Ivy and PL. Ivy teams are allotted a certain number of admission spots per class and the the coaching staff must balance the AI average of these recruits while making sure every recruit is above the AI floor. That being said - there is more to it then just making sure a recruit is above the Ivy floor but it typically is a starting point for whether or not a student athlete is recruitable.
Ironically, the PL AI doesn't come into play often regarding SAs recruited by Holy Cross since it's own admissions standards are significantly higher than the PL AI requirements.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 17, 2021 16:42:03 GMT -5
To summarize the Academic Index once again. The AI for a school is calculated using the average campus-wide score for all matriculating freshmen in the previous year's class. An individual's AI score is composed of his/her unweighted GPA and SAT V/M scores. www.toptieradmissions.com/resources/college-calculator/^^^ Using this site, I entered a SAT-M score of 700, and a SAT-V of 700, and an unweighted GPA of 3.75. The calculator reported I had an AI of 209. (A 1400 composite SAT score is about the 75th percentile for Holy Cross, class of 2023.) The campus-wide AI for HYP is at the top of the IL; for HYP, this AI score is probably around 220. www.thecrimson.com/article/2018/6/30/athlete-admissions/#:~:text=At%20Harvard%2C%20the%20student%20body,to%20a%202014%20Crimson%20report The campus-wide AI for the other Ivies is lower, with Cornell purportedly at the bottom. Speculation has Georgetown's AI at/near Cornell's campus-wide AI. The average AI of all recruited athletes must be within one standard deviation of the campus-wide AI. For HYP, one standard deviation is probably an AI score of 207-208. Through the use of bands, particularly in football, a limited number of recruited athletes with an AI score more than one standard deviation below the campus-wide AI can be admitted. The AI scores of these athletes must be offset by AI scores of other recruited athletes who have scores close to or higher than the campus-wide AI. No recruited athlete in the IL can be admitted who has an AI score below 176. (A composite SAT of 1210 and unweighted GPA of 3.1 equates to an AI score of 176.) ___________________ The AI floor for the PL is 168.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Feb 19, 2021 8:58:11 GMT -5
The bloated Ivy rosters I believe are a function of not having basketball grant-in aid, only need-based aid. I believe that when you have scholarships, there is a roster limit. Without scholarships, the roster limit is higher. See Patriot League football => rosters used to be between 100 and 105 players, now we have to stay under 85 I believe.
I imagine there's a similar rule in place for DI basketball that doesn't allow a team with a full boat of 13 scholarships to stack another 7 guys on the roster as walk-ons. Ivies don't have this problem. Same with Army and Navy.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Feb 21, 2021 11:43:34 GMT -5
The bloated Ivy rosters I believe are a function of not having basketball grant-in aid, only need-based aid. I believe that when you have scholarships, there is a roster limit. Without scholarships, the roster limit is higher. See Patriot League football => rosters used to be between 100 and 105 players, now we have to stay under 85 I believe. I imagine there's a similar rule in place for DI basketball that doesn't allow a team with a full boat of 13 scholarships to stack another 7 guys on the roster as walk-ons. Ivies don't have this problem. Same with Army and Navy. When I looked up Michigan's roster in the context of another thread about the # of COVID tests being done in Ann Arbor, the football roster was 140, which would be 55 walk-ons. Interestingly, 26 males were listed as practice players for women's basketball.
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