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Post by Wormtown Railers Fan on Apr 26, 2016 10:57:12 GMT -5
Any news on the Hockey East/ECAC??
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Apr 26, 2016 21:20:54 GMT -5
HC gave a "no comment" when asked by the T&G of interest in moving up in conferences. There was no "we are happy in the AHA" spiel. This tells us everything we need to know...
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 27, 2016 6:58:24 GMT -5
HC gave a "no comment" when asked by the T&G of interest in moving up in conferences. There was no "we are happy in the AHA" spiel. This tells us everything we need to know... Correct. That is a far cry from the typical comments out of HC about the PL. I wonder what is really ahead for hockey. |
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hc70
Climbing Mt. St. James
Banned for Violating Board Rules
Posts: 70 
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Post by hc70 on Apr 27, 2016 7:30:00 GMT -5
My opinion is what is being said is that a great decision will be made. It will be huge! And everyone else can just shut the hell up because the decision will be made by the highest levels of tptb.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 29, 2016 15:17:54 GMT -5
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Post by nhteamer on Jun 30, 2016 7:04:15 GMT -5
thanks 92
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 30, 2016 10:44:00 GMT -5
HE brass may prefer Q over HC, but I'm virtually certain that the league school Prez', AD's and coaches would prefer HC based on much better academic profile, significantly less travel (Orono ME to Hamden CT via bus would be a bitch for example), and the fact that the Q currently is better position to rob a yearly NCAA's slot from a current HE school.
Q wasn't even in the mix last go-round when UConnvict & HC were the finalists, and let's remember the HE brass doesn't make the final decision. The current schools vote on who to give the nod to. and for that reason I clearly see HC as the frontrunner if/when expansion occurs
And furthermore Q is a top dog in the ECAC. That wouldn't be the case in HE. Would they we be willing to roll the dice and risk a good seed in the NCAA's every year when that is the ultimate goal regardless of league affiliation?
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 30, 2016 11:02:43 GMT -5
if we get the phone call, do we know that the school is ready to move the women's program into HE at the same time?
that would be a condition, i am sure
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 30, 2016 11:12:23 GMT -5
if we get the phone call, do we know that the school is ready to move the women's program into HE at the same time? that would be a condition, i am sure
Yes - that would be a requirement 'haze.
Given HC was all-in last go round, and willing to accept the HE slot if offered a few years ago (under a MUCH less sports-friendly admin I might add, and same conditions applied), there is no reason to believe HC isn't willing to make the same commitment now.
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Post by bigfan on Jul 1, 2016 6:23:45 GMT -5
Is it possible that the two games at the DCU with BC & Providence are a test to see what attendance will be. I wonder if HE will be watching and a good
attendance could help our chances.
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Post by HC92 on Jul 1, 2016 7:22:07 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 1, 2016 8:16:34 GMT -5
Makes me want to vomit that Holy Cross is second choice to QU in anything.
This part I totally buy into that this is Fr. Boroughs and Nate Pine's plan . . . . national recognition to sell the Holy Cross brand nationally.
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Post by hc87 on Jul 1, 2016 10:52:23 GMT -5
"They also have some historical ties with both BC and BU...."
Turnpike Trophy baby!!!
We're making steps....but it's sad to think that hardly anyone undah 50 thinks of BC as a rival.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 1, 2016 11:25:49 GMT -5
I'll be Debbie Downer here.
First, the two opening games being at DCU could have been set because of uncertainty over whether there would be a certificate of occupancy for the Hart by mid-October. Simple prudence would dictate avoiding scheduling hockey (or hoops) at the Hart anywhere near the date when the contractor hopes to have parts of the renovation sufficiently done to allow the public in.
Second, and we have been through this before, there is not enough money in the HC athletic budget to upgrade M/W hockey to ECAC/HE levels, and play M hockey at the DCU. Please identify an ECAC/HE school (without a multi-billion dollar endowment) that plays ECAC/HE ice hockey and doesn't have football as a big revenue stream. Colgate, you say? HC already spends more on athletics than does Colgate, and Colgate plays hockey on-campus.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jul 1, 2016 13:05:17 GMT -5
I'll be Debbie Downer here. First, the two opening games being at DCU could have been set because of uncertainty over whether there would be a certificate of occupancy for the Hart by mid-October. Simple prudence would dictate avoiding scheduling hockey (or hoops) at the Hart anywhere near the date when the contractor hopes to have parts of the renovation sufficiently done to allow the public in. Second, and we have been through this before, there is not enough money in the HC athletic budget to upgrade M/W hockey to ECAC/HE levels, and play M hockey at the DCU. Please identify an ECAC/HE school (without a multi-billion dollar endowment) that plays ECAC/HE ice hockey and doesn't have football as a big revenue stream. Colgate, you say? HC already spends more on athletics than does Colgate, and Colgate plays hockey on-campus. OK freak - if HC "can't, won't, don't" (as you say with everything - like when you said HC couldn't afford to fire MB) then tell me why in the world HC tossed it's hat into the HE ring last go round 3 years ago (when UConnvict god the nod), and was fully prepared to take the slot if offered - under a completely inept athletic admin at the time - mind you, and is all in again this go round? Might be news to you, but you don't apply if you have no intent on accepting if an invite is extended.
HC will be in either HE or ECAC within 2 years, and you will be proven wrong. Until then - keeping raining on the parade since it apparently makes you happy...
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 1, 2016 16:50:01 GMT -5
I'll be Debbie Downer here. First, the two opening games being at DCU could have been set because of uncertainty over whether there would be a certificate of occupancy for the Hart by mid-October. Simple prudence would dictate avoiding scheduling hockey (or hoops) at the Hart anywhere near the date when the contractor hopes to have parts of the renovation sufficiently done to allow the public in. Second, and we have been through this before, there is not enough money in the HC athletic budget to upgrade M/W hockey to ECAC/HE levels, and play M hockey at the DCU. Please identify an ECAC/HE school (without a multi-billion dollar endowment) that plays ECAC/HE ice hockey and doesn't have football as a big revenue stream. Colgate, you say? HC already spends more on athletics than does Colgate, and Colgate plays hockey on-campus. Merrimack would be the most logical pick or St. Lawrence. UNH was getting crushed financially from having a football team about 10 years ago |
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Post by HC92 on Jul 1, 2016 18:29:16 GMT -5
I'll be Debbie Downer here. First, the two opening games being at DCU could have been set because of uncertainty over whether there would be a certificate of occupancy for the Hart by mid-October. Simple prudence would dictate avoiding scheduling hockey (or hoops) at the Hart anywhere near the date when the contractor hopes to have parts of the renovation sufficiently done to allow the public in. [ You are killing me, phreek. We're playing in Hart on 10/28 but the reason we're in the DCU on 10/22 is because we're worried about having a certificate of occupancy by 10/22??? We're playing in the DCU against two recent national champs because we are trying to substantially upgrade the play and profile of our hockey team and build a strong fan base in Worcester. It's no more complicated than that. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 1, 2016 19:02:16 GMT -5
Holy Cross is confronted with, inter alia:
1.) an underwhelming performance by the endowment in recent years
2.) a need to increase need-blind financial aid
3.) a slippage in reputational competitiveness
4.) stagnation in the number of applications, and in the geographic diversity of those enrolling
The solution to these challenges will not be found by joining the HE/ECAC.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Some financial aid comparisons:
Total tuition & fee income $ in thousands / fin aid $ (including athletic scollies)
Holy Cross 133817 / 49068
Colgate 141750 / 50130
Holy Cross / Colgate are quite similar, and their financial aid amount is more generous than Bucknell.
Total tuition & fee income / fin aid (enrollment)
Lafayette 113578 / 40373 (2533)
Davidson 80461 / 40730 (1770)
Lafayette and Davidson offer similar amounts of financial aid, Davidson has a lot fewer students. Davidson's relative generosity explains why Davidson is significantly more competitive than Lafayette when it comes to admissions, and its USN&WR ranking reflects that..
Comparing Davidson with Bowdoin, Williams, and Amherst
Total tuition & fee income / fin aid, no athletic scollies (enrollment)
Bowdoin 83614 / 31710 (1805)
Williams 101200 / 45780 (2099)
Amherst 106919 / 49093 (1800)
Davidson 80461 / 40730 (1770) [Davidson awards $3.1 million in scollies]
Wesleyan 152937 / 55278 (3225)
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Spending on athletic aid 2014-15
Bucknell 9.7M
Colgate 11.0M
Fordham 13.0M
Georgetown 8.2M (no football scollies)
Holy Cross 9.1M
Lafayette 7.8M
Lehigh 10.5M
__________________
Providence 8.3M (no football)
Villanova 11.3M (no hockey)
BC 18.6M
Duke 17.7M
Univ of Miami 16.6M
ND 19.6M
Syracuse 15.7M
Wake 13.8M
HC would need to spend about $2 million more on scollies (30 scollies or so) to reach Colgate's level.
63 football scollies at $60K costs about $3.8 million. If, hypothetically, Providence played FCS football, that's the minimum its scollie aid would increase (and ignoring any Title IX increases). Its scollie spending would be $3 million more than what HC currently spends.
24 additional M/W ice hockey scollies at HC (going from 12 to 18, and 0 to 18) costs $1.4-$1.5 million.
___________________________
Finally, there is the DCU venue. I believe UConn is the only school that plays ice hockey at an off-campus venue (and for which, IIRC, a special exception was made). HC will lose money playing HE/ECAC, and it will lose even more money playing at the DCU. So a proposition: that the taxpayers of Worcester indemnify HC for all additional losses incurred from playing at the DCU. Any takers? I think not.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 1, 2016 19:08:11 GMT -5
I'll be Debbie Downer here. First, the two opening games being at DCU could have been set because of uncertainty over whether there would be a certificate of occupancy for the Hart by mid-October. Simple prudence would dictate avoiding scheduling hockey (or hoops) at the Hart anywhere near the date when the contractor hopes to have parts of the renovation sufficiently done to allow the public in. [ You are killing me, phreek. We're playing in Hart on 10/28 but the reason we're in the DCU on 10/22 is because we're worried about having a certificate of occupancy by 10/22??? We're playing in the DCU against two recent national champs because we are trying to substantially upgrade the play and profile of our hockey team and build a strong fan base in Worcester. It's no more complicated than that. Don't die on me yet.  Were there not complaints that scheduling these two games at the DCU on those dates was not optimal scheduling, and were there not concerns voiced about prospective attendance because of that?
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Post by HC92 on Jul 1, 2016 19:14:57 GMT -5
Holy Cross is confronted with, inter alia: 1.) an underwhelming performance by the endowment in recent years 2.) a need to increase need-blind financial aid 3.) a slippage in reputational competitiveness 4.) stagnation in the number of applications, and in the geographic diversity of those enrolling The solution to these challenges will not be found by joining the HE/ECAC. This, of course, begs the question as to where you think the solutions to these challenges can be found, particularly challenges 3 and 4. The administration seems to believe that increasing our athletic profile will build brand awareness and increase the geographic diversity of our applicants and students. |
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Post by HC92 on Jul 1, 2016 19:18:11 GMT -5
You are killing me, phreek. We're playing in Hart on 10/28 but the reason we're in the DCU on 10/22 is because we're worried about having a certificate of occupancy by 10/22??? We're playing in the DCU against two recent national champs because we are trying to substantially upgrade the play and profile of our hockey team and build a strong fan base in Worcester. It's no more complicated than that. Don't die on me yet. Were there not complaints that scheduling these two games at the DCU on those dates was not optimal scheduling, and were there not concerns voiced about prospective attendance because of that?
They are definitely not ideal dates. We decided we wanted to aggressively pursue strong local opponents for DCU games this season and we did that. As for the dates, I believe they were dictated by our opponents, who hold all the cards. I don't think playing in the DCU on those dates has anything to do with certificates of occupancy. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 1, 2016 19:36:39 GMT -5
Fr. Boroughs is on public record as stating he sees successful athletics as a way to improve the name recognition of Holy Cross nationally. The change in the leadership of the athletics department; the significant enhancement of our athletic facilities; are just some of the most obvious signs of a new direction. Getting into the Hockey East would be an association of schools much more similar to the schools of the Patriot League than where we are now. The DCU and Worcester City government have indicated they would look favorably at a closer association with Holy Cross.
Going back even to the "old regime," Fr. McFarland and Dick Regan said after we missed our last chance to switch hockey leagues allegedly because of the D-3 status of our ladies hockey team that "our plans have always been to upgrade the women to D-1 but not as fast as they wanted us to do" (almost a direct quote).
Not to say that money is no object, but upgrading the women to D-1 will not be the reason we don't get accepted next time. If that's what it takes, it'll happen.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 1, 2016 20:39:37 GMT -5
The college is being squeezed financially.
From the campaign,
The campaign seeks to raise $65 million for additional financial aid. That would generate about $2.9 million in additional financial aid monies annually. What the endowment doesn't cover, then those paying full freight do; i.e., subsidize the financial aid program. It becomes a vicious cycle: raise tuition, fewer can afford it, and they now either seek financial aid, or apply elsewhere.
_____________________________________
HC spent $1.8 million on M/W ice hockey in 2014-15. BC spent $5.3 million on M/W ice hockey, BU spent $5.4 million.
Thus, one or more of the fiscally rational members of TPTB might say to ADNP: 'So Nate, to join HE, you want us to spend as much for that undertaking as the amount we would get from increasing the endowment by $65 million? And you're also telling me we won't get increased revenue to offset the increased cost? So then aren't we back to the students picking up the added cost of HE membership? And if that's the case, isn't the benefit of the $65 million in increased endowment monies negated? Tell me, Nate, what am I missing here?
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Post by hc87 on Jul 1, 2016 22:30:44 GMT -5
Personally, I think $$$ for ice hockey is a fool's errand....that being said....think of the countless of dollars (and school recognition) we would have received if we had gone Big East in 1979....our powers that be have been penny wise and pound foolish for years....the school has suffered reputation-wise since we went sports-phobic imo
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jul 2, 2016 7:11:16 GMT -5
I think the real fool's errand would be to have the DCU be your home ice. Below is an article from a Georgetown student newspaper article (September 2015) chronicling the effort to try and increase student attendance at home hoop games at the Verizon Center. georgetownvoice.com/2015/09/25/bucking-the-trend/The article notes that Georgetown's athletic department won't reveal how many students attend games, but the athletic department has pared the size of the student section. For men's ice hockey at the DCU, I think one can readily presume that student attendance will be less than at the Hart. Even if HC ran free bus service to/from; even if students drove their cars and were able to find free parking nearby. (There is no student parking on-campus at Georgetown, and no off-campus parking on nearby streets (resident parking stickers required). If HC is not spending all this additional money to be a member of HE/ECAC to enhance the student experience, then for whose benefit are these monies being spent? ___________ The article notes that UCLA soccer played at Georgetown, UCLA ranked #1. (Home field is on-campus). Through extraordinary promotions, they got 1,000 students to attend, an all-time attendance record. Georgetown's U/G enrollment is about 7,700. That strikes me as pathetic attendance. |
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