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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2021 9:57:09 GMT -5
A poster on the Fairfield Board has started their annual discussion on what a move to the Patriot League would do for their university brand. If the PL were to expand, would Fairfield appeal to you?
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 18, 2021 10:03:49 GMT -5
Academically they're at the same level as Loyola so that's not ideal but they have the NY metro area (just barely) as a big plus as well as a commitment to a new arena.i their lax program is also an emphasis with their new stadium (abt 5000 cap ?) - right now we in the NY region only have Army and that's not very accessible for most - I'd vote 'yes' for the Stags
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Post by bison137 on Mar 18, 2021 10:16:10 GMT -5
I don't think there is any chance of the PL adding another school unless it has football. If a school were to leave (ideally Boston U), then Fairfield would be near the top of the list of schools that are obtainable along with Marist.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 18, 2021 10:17:49 GMT -5
My son and daughter-in-law went there and I did get to now the school pretty well. I would see the as a good addition to the PL. Too bad they dropped football.
Why not take Marist and Fairfield and go to 2 divisions?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 18, 2021 10:24:03 GMT -5
I read their three pages of comments as well, and thought about responding directly on their board, but have not yet.
Fairfield should reinstate football if they have a desire to join the Patriot League. It worked out well for Villanova, who dropped football in 1981, only to reinstate four years later. As we all know, HC faced Villanova in the first round of the FCS playoffs on their way to the national championship in 2009. Kind of surprised that no one on the Fairfield board mentioned Football. They seem to be Basketball centric, with a desire to be a Lacrosse power. They built in 2015, a nice multipurpose small stadium, that seats 3,500 that is used for them for Lacrosse. They share Rafferty Stadium with Fairfield Prep who uses it for Football, Soccer and Lacrosse.
Without football, or being in a major media market to attract interest, adding another member to the league, at this time only decreases the changes of the current members to win a championship. I believe Fairfield would be included in the New Haven market, since it is next to Bridgeport and not New York.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Mar 18, 2021 10:33:40 GMT -5
Only possibility I see is if Fordham rejoins the PL in all sports, then Fairfield could be paired as a geographic partner similar to what the PL did with HC and BostonU. I suppose if American were to leave, then the PL would seek a replacement. American is increasingly the outlier when it comes to spending money on athletics.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Mar 18, 2021 10:47:50 GMT -5
Agree about American, they currently sponsor 6 men’s, teams (Basketball, Cross Country, Soccer, Swimming, Track and Wrestling) and 8 women’s teams (Basketball, Cross Country, Field Hockey, Lacrosse, Soccer, Swimming, Track , Volleyball). The minimum for D1 status.
Kind of surprised they don’t sponsor Men’s Lacrosse, being in the DMV, Softball or Rowing, with the campus being close to the Potomac.
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Post by CHC8485 on Mar 18, 2021 11:00:52 GMT -5
Have no problem with Fairfield joining from an academic perspective - we can't hate the Ivys for their snobbery and then turn around and be snobs ourselves. Academically Fairfield is good and in the same ball park as Loyola and PC.
And size-wise the "Regional Universities" tend to be much closer to the PL model than national universities. Would have much preferred Fairfield to BU 8 years ago. And if Fairfield added football I'd say add them tomorrow, but I don't see that is happening.
Biggest obstacle to adding Fairfield is going to 11 teams. As has been discussed here often, pairing then with another school potentially in the southern footprint of the PL and creating north & south divisions would be ideal. But the pool of candidates is quite shallow and even following the unlikely extension of the PL into VA (W&M or Richmond) doesn't deepen the pool of options much.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 18, 2021 11:08:29 GMT -5
Short answer:
Fairfield would be a perfect fit if they hadn't cut their short-lived but relatively successful (by I-AA non-scholarship standards) football program.
I'd prefer Fairfield over BU and American but there's no need for our basketball conference to expand beyond 10.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 18, 2021 11:13:29 GMT -5
Have no problem with Fairfield joining from an academic perspective - we can't hate the Ivys for their snobbery and then turn around and be snobs ourselves. Academically Fairfield is good and in the same ball park as Loyola and PC. And size-wise the "Regional Universities" tend to be much closer to the PL model than national universities. Would have much preferred Fairfield to BU 8 years ago. And if Fairfield added football I'd say add them tomorrow, but I don't see that is happening. Biggest obstacle to adding Fairfield is going to 11 teams. As has been discussed here often, pairing then with another school potentially in the southern footprint of the PL and creating north & south divisions would be ideal. But the pool of candidates is quite shallow and even following the unlikely extension of the PL into VA (W&M or Richmond) doesn't deepen the pool of options much. Great points. The PL's dilemma is that none of the schools it covets (W&M for all sports, Richmond/Villanova for football) have any interest in joining. And the profile of schools that would want to potentially join (Bryant, SHU, Marist, Monmouth), we have zero interest in either. Fairfield might head to the CAA if they go anywhere. League doesn't need football members, they are already an affiliate in lacrosse and they would bridge the geographical gap between Hofstra and Northeastern quite well. |
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2021 11:19:00 GMT -5
My son and daughter-in-law went there and I did get to now the school pretty well. I would see the as a good addition to the PL. Too bad they dropped football. Why not take Marist and Fairfield and go to 2 divisions? All things being equal in a one bid league, it's harder to go to the NCAA in a 12 team league than a 10 team league |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 18, 2021 11:26:29 GMT -5
Being a "one bid league" is not carved in stone. If the play of the PL improves, a second bid (in a typical year) could be a possibility. If we want to move forward and upward, it may be necessary to make some changes. Are all OK with the way things are currently?
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Post by HC92 on Mar 18, 2021 11:30:45 GMT -5
Don’t love our current situation but adding Fairfield and Marist to the PL isn’t the answer. That definitely doesn’t move us in the direction of becoming a two bid league.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 18, 2021 11:35:46 GMT -5
My son and daughter-in-law went there and I did get to now the school pretty well. I would see the as a good addition to the PL. Too bad they dropped football. Why not take Marist and Fairfield and go to 2 divisions? All things being equal in a one bid league, it's harder to go to the NCAA in a 12 team league than a 10 team league Expansion reduces the chances of each school making the NCAA -- TRUE. It also reduces the "share" of March Madness money that each school gets from our conference's participation. On the other side of the coin, many smaller conferences have chosen to expand beyond 10 or 12 because of the increased difficulty in scheduling DI non-conference games. Because all the major conferences have expanded over the course of the last 15 years, this means more in-conference games for the big schools. And thus less games available to schedule against the little guys during non-conference play. As was brought up in the Hockey East thread, increased membership also results in increased membership fees, another incentive for smaller leagues to expand. Finally, a number is only a number. If the right school wanted to join, we'd expand. If William & Mary's President made a phone call to the Lehigh Valley offices tonight, we'd be announcing an 11th member tomorrow. No one in the Big East was worried about an uneven schedule when UConn came calling. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 18, 2021 11:37:13 GMT -5
Don’t love our current situation but adding Fairfield and Marist to the PL isn’t the answer. That definitely doesn’t move us in the direction of becoming a two bid league. Hard pass on Marist. |
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2021 11:38:42 GMT -5
Being a "one bid league" is not carved in stone. If the play of the PL improves, a second bid (in a typical year) could be a possibility. If we want to move forward and upward, it may be necessary to make some changes. Are all OK with the way things are currently? If the PL did expand with let's say, Richmond, W&M and 2 if not all from FU, FF, UVM and Northeastern, would it become a two-bid league? I know the chances of this happening are slim to none but let's play "what if" for a few hours. |
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2021 11:41:43 GMT -5
All things being equal in a one bid league, it's harder to go to the NCAA in a 12 team league than a 10 team league Expansion reduces the chances of each school making the NCAA -- TRUE. It also reduces the "share" of March Madness money that each school gets from our conference's participation. On the other side of the coin, many smaller conferences have chosen to expand beyond 10 or 12 because of the increased difficulty in scheduling DI non-conference games. Because all the major conferences have expanded over the course of the last 15 years, this means more in-conference games for the big schools. And thus less games available to schedule against the little guys during non-conference play. As was brought up in the Hockey East thread, increased membership also results in increased membership fees, another incentive for smaller leagues to expand. Finally, a number is only a number. If the right school wanted to join, we'd expand. If William & Mary's President made a phone call to the Lehigh Valley offices tonight, we'd be announcing an 11th member tomorrow. No one in the Big East was worried about an uneven schedule when UConn came calling. Very good points on all fronts especially with regards to scheduling. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Mar 18, 2021 11:48:00 GMT -5
Being a "one bid league" is not carved in stone. If the play of the PL improves, a second bid (in a typical year) could be a possibility. If we want to move forward and upward, it may be necessary to make some changes. Are all OK with the way things are currently? If the PL did expand with let's say, Richmond, W&M and 2 if not all from FU, FF, UVM and Northeastern, would it become a two-bid league? I know the chances of this happening are slim to none but let's play "what if" for a few hours. Richmond - would not join for hoops, if they ever did it would be football only. W&M - Has never made the NCAA tournament in 70+ years of Division I. So no dice on making us a two bid league. Fordham, Fairfield, UVM & Northeastern - Zero combined at-large tournament berths since Fordham's glory years ended in the late 1970's. So, the answer is NO. The PL would not become a two-bid league. The freaking Missouri Valley is barely a two-bid league anymore, and the CAA waved bye-bye to that status about 7 or 8 years ago. Holy Cross will remain in a one-bid league unless we join the Atlantic 10. |
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2021 12:01:34 GMT -5
If the PL did expand with let's say, Richmond, W&M and 2 if not all from FU, FF, UVM and Northeastern, would it become a two-bid league? I know the chances of this happening are slim to none but let's play "what if" for a few hours. Richmond - would not join for hoops, if they ever did it would be football only. W&M - Has never made the NCAA tournament in 70+ years of Division I. So no dice on making us a two bid league. Fordham, Fairfield, UVM & Northeastern - Zero combined at-large tournament berths since Fordham's glory years ended in the late 1970's. So, the answer is NO. The PL would not become a two-bid league. The freaking Missouri Valley is barely a two-bid league anymore, and the CAA waved bye-bye to that status about 7 or 8 years ago. Holy Cross will remain in a one-bid league unless we join the Atlantic 10. I don't see HC leaving the PL. |
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Post by HC92 on Mar 18, 2021 12:07:14 GMT -5
Conferences generally get lots of bids or 1 bid. This year, there were five 2-bid conferences:
A10 (9 St. Bonaventure** and 10 VCU*)
American (2 Houston** and 11 Witchita State*)
Mountain West (6 San Diego Stafe and 11 Utah State)
Missouri Valley (8 Loyola Chicago* ** and 11 Drake)
West Coast (1 Gonzaga* ** and 6 BYU)
* Regular Season Champ
** Tournament Champ/Autobid
* ** Team won regular season and tournament
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Post by bison137 on Mar 18, 2021 12:35:44 GMT -5
If the PL did expand with let's say, Richmond, W&M and 2 if not all from FU, FF, UVM and Northeastern, would it become a two-bid league? I know the chances of this happening are slim to none but let's play "what if" for a few hours. Richmond - would not join for hoops, if they ever did it would be football only. W&M - Has never made the NCAA tournament in 70+ years of Division I. So no dice on making us a two bid league. Fordham, Fairfield, UVM & Northeastern - Zero combined at-large tournament berths since Fordham's glory years ended in the late 1970's. So, the answer is NO. The PL would not become a two-bid league. The freaking Missouri Valley is barely a two-bid league anymore, and the CAA waved bye-bye to that status about 7 or 8 years ago. Holy Cross will remain in a one-bid league unless we join the Atlantic 10. Correct. Adding all those schools wouldn't even move the needle towards becoming a two-bid league. It would just reduce the chance of HC or Bucknell getting the one bid. As you point out, there is zero chance of Richmond or W&M joining - not even for football. The redshirt issue and the AI make that way beyond unlikely. |
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Post by hc87 on Mar 18, 2021 12:36:21 GMT -5
The PL is lucky it's a one-bid league many years....I'll be here all week, try the veal....  |
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Post by trimster on Mar 18, 2021 12:48:52 GMT -5
The PL is lucky it's a one-bid league many years....I'll be here all week, try the veal.... or the corned beef. |
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 18, 2021 12:57:32 GMT -5
I put Marist in there just to keep things even to make the point of splitting into two divisions. Clearly if the intent is to get a se cord bid then W+M, Richmond or UVM would be preferable.
Remember, the fact that a league gets one or multiple bids depends m ore on the records of the teams than on any particular size or structure.
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Post by bigfan on Mar 18, 2021 13:00:05 GMT -5
HC should be in the Atlantic 10 with UMass, Fordham, LaSalle, St.Bonnie's , URI etc. We do not belong in the PL with our basketball history.
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