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Post by trimster on Mar 26, 2021 8:08:57 GMT -5
The transfer market sits at 900 players this morning. It could hit an all-time high this spring and the NCAA hasn’t yet sent the sit one rule to the dustbin. Have we entered a new era of college basketball where the spring recruiting of transfers is at least on a par with the traditional recruiting of his/prep players. If we have, coaches might like to have at least one scholarship in their pocket entering the spring even at schools that manage to have low turnover of the roster.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 26, 2021 8:45:38 GMT -5
It's almost like the vast majority of basketball at these big/mid-tier programs is just about the game, and not about the school/education/college experience...
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Post by trimster on Mar 26, 2021 9:02:27 GMT -5
It's almost like the vast majority of basketball at these big/mid-tier programs is just about the game, and not about the school/education/college experience... Athletic dorms, special tutors, separate dining facilities not to mention a free college education. No wonder it turns off many people. |
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Post by timholycross on Mar 26, 2021 11:42:18 GMT -5
And someone from Rutgers said they were going to do a walkout the other day to protest not being able to get endorsements, etc.
Basketball "power" Rutgers. What were they going to endorse, the Bada Bing?
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Post by hchoops on Mar 26, 2021 11:56:58 GMT -5
Big time schools and the NCAA make billions off the names of these players.
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Post by Tom on Mar 26, 2021 12:08:06 GMT -5
And someone from Rutgers said they were going to do a walkout the other day to protest not being able to get endorsements, etc. Basketball "power" Rutgers. What were they going to endorse, the Bada Bing? That someone is a semi local kid just over the NH state line. Relevant to absolutely nothing - same prep school and class as former Crusader Caleb Green and lives next town over |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 26, 2021 12:15:41 GMT -5
Big time schools and the NCAA make billions off the names of these players. They make $ off the performance of these players, NOT the names. And if these kids who are getting in some cases an education worth 300K while those who can't drop 20 pts a game have to pay, then pay the kids, but eliminate scholarships completely and let the kids & their families pay on their own. One or the other, but not both. |
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Post by mm67 on Mar 26, 2021 12:17:06 GMT -5
It's a difficult & painful situation.
On the one hand there is the hypocrisy of the NCAA & its member institutions proclaiming the "sanctity" of the student-athlete as involved adults make millions - the schools, AD's, coaches, corporations, media networks and the Bill Rafftery announcers of the world. All their riches made on the backs of kids.
Some supporters of the status quo point out that the youngsters get a free "education " comesurate with their labor. The powers that be shriek in mock horror as the kids, recognizing the emptiness of the promise of educational opportunity grab the greater opportunity for athletic gold & glory and expose the systemic hypocrisy(Thank you JD Salinger, "Catcher in the Rye") and transfer to seek a better deal in hopes of reaping the riches as does everyone else.
Maybe the large numbers of transfers in a free agency style rush is merely an honest reflection of the current situation in college sports. Sadly, student - free agents have been molded into cynics by the adults. And, it is totally reprehensible & understandable.
It pains me that excellent straight programs such as in the PL, HC in particular and the Ivies get burned with losing some of their best players.(Pridgeon & Grandison are prime examples) Naively, perhaps I labored under the illusion that students chose colleges because that is the school they wanted to attend for an education.
Given the realities that athletics not academics reign supreme one can't place the entirety of the blame(if any at all) on the youngsters. The adults, not the kids, have created the corrupt template of college sports.My ignorant idealism has been replaced by cynical, jaded honest realism. Old age may bring wisdom but also it can bring sadness.
And, so it goes.( "Slaughterhous Five", Kurt Vonnegut.)
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Post by Tom on Mar 26, 2021 13:43:06 GMT -5
Big time schools and the NCAA make billions off the names of these players. They make $ off the performance of these players, NOT the names. And if these kids who are getting in some cases an education worth 300K while those who can't drop 20 pts a game have to pay, then pay the kids, but eliminate scholarships completely and let the kids & their families pay on their own. One or the other, but not both. A year from now, EA is going to put out their 2022 NCAA basketball video game featuring all the schools in the field of 64. One of those teams will likely be purple and say Holy Cross. The NCAA and probably the school will get some sort of licensing fee. There are also going to be video representations of guys that look a lot like Gates, Wade, and Johnson. Might even have those names on the back of the jerseys. I'm a space invaders kind of guy, so I'm not sure but there might be sound of Dick Vitale saying "Wade for 3, baby." I know that it's a fuzzy line, but I think that crosses the line between making money off the players name and likeness. The funny thing is that only the most educated fans will know or care who Gates, Wade, and Johnson are. The game maker doesn't need to use their names and faces. A very generic purple Holy Cross with #'s 10, 0, and 1 will suffice. For purposes of the video game, that logic would apply to 99 percent of the players in the game. Not the answer the disgruntled players are looking for, but don't pay the players, just stop using their name and image. Even TV crazy Duke, where casual fans in LA know a player or two, you can get away without |
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 26, 2021 15:11:15 GMT -5
1) A school like Holy Cross that loses millions on athletics isn't corrupt. They "lose" millions on the English Dept., too or you could say both departments bring in millions in tuition. Either way, no corruption.
2) Good players benefit in addition to their scholarships. Gordie and Ronnie jr. went into insurance and commercial real estate where their positive image from HC sports (Perry in Boston from Catholic Memorial also) precedes their introduction to many potential clients. It's a win/win because their positive business careers help promote Holy Cross also.
HC and the PL have things in good balance. Although nothing is ever perfect, our level is legitimate and not corrupt imo.
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 26, 2021 21:43:55 GMT -5
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 26, 2021 21:47:07 GMT -5
^
BS
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 26, 2021 21:50:38 GMT -5
Specifically, what parts do you disagree with him on? Where is there time to be a real student if you are recruited to most of these big-time programs? |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 26, 2021 21:56:58 GMT -5
Specifically, what parts do you disagree with him on? Where is there time to be a real student if you are recruited to most of these big-time programs? He completely contradicts himself in one quote: "Show me how you would schedule your classes when you can’t schedule classes from 2-to-6 o’clock on any given day. Show me how you’re going to get all your work done when after you get out at 7:30 or so, you’ve got a test the next day, you’re dead tired from practice and you still have to study just as hard as everybody else every day and get all the same work done. Most of these kids are done with school, done with class by 3 o’clock, you’ve got the rest of the day to do as you please.“First he’s upset that he can’t take classes between 2:00-6:00 (I don’t know about Stanford, but that was not “prime time” for classes at HC), then he says most kids are done with classes at 3:00 (meaning they’re also not taking classes between 3:00-6:00). Sherman takes himself wayyyy too seriously. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 26, 2021 22:22:48 GMT -5
Specifically, what parts do you disagree with him on? Where is there time to be a real student if you are recruited to most of these big-time programs? The job of college is to position a graduate/attendee for a good paying career. Sherman shouldn't complain what Stanford did for him. |
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 26, 2021 22:27:34 GMT -5
Specifically, what parts do you disagree with him on? Where is there time to be a real student if you are recruited to most of these big-time programs? He completely contradicts himself in one quote: "Show me how you would schedule your classes when you can’t schedule classes from 2-to-6 o’clock on any given day. Show me how you’re going to get all your work done when after you get out at 7:30 or so, you’ve got a test the next day, you’re dead tired from practice and you still have to study just as hard as everybody else every day and get all the same work done. Most of these kids are done with school, done with class by 3 o’clock, you’ve got the rest of the day to do as you please.“First he’s upset that he can’t take classes between 2:00-6:00 (I don’t know about Stanford, but that was not “prime time” for classes at HC), then he says most kids are done with classes at 3:00 (meaning they’re also not taking classes between 3:00-6:00). Sherman takes himself wayyyy too seriously. It may not have been "prime time" for classes at HC, but several are offered at that time and depending on your course of study you may have to (e.g., language practicum or natural science lab). More to the point, late afternoon/early evening is prime study time - especially if you really do not get something and want to speak with your professor during office hours. Athletes who have that time commitment cannot utilize that opportunity. More broadly, it's well known that many programs/coaches tell players to not take class x or pursue degree y because it will take too much time away from the sport. To paraphrase what I believe is included in Feinstein's prologue, "I'm not saying that coaches do not care about their players' academics, but you better believe basketball comes first..." |
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Post by hceconhist on Mar 26, 2021 22:33:26 GMT -5
Specifically, what parts do you disagree with him on? Where is there time to be a real student if you are recruited to most of these big-time programs? The job of college is to position a graduate/attendee for a good paying career. Sherman shouldn't complain what Stanford did for him. His football career worked out for him. That is irrelevant to my point: many college athletes cannot actually receive a real college education. He also did not complain about Stanford per se. In fact, he said he was lucky to go to Stanford because it was so unique compared to its peers - which is exactly his point. The video does a better job of capturing his full comments (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eP0FYeO1N2A, the video stops after 3:10; it plays three times for some reason). |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Mar 26, 2021 22:46:27 GMT -5
^
The student-athletes who choose to can. The ones who don't care to receive an education don't.
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Post by Tom on Mar 27, 2021 8:01:14 GMT -5
There are certain majors you simply cannot pull off as a big time athlete. Nursing and education come to mind where at some point you are in a hospital or school all day for a semester'
An education can be had if a big time athlete wants it. I'm sure there are also accommodations for big time athletes where they can go through the motions of an education without actually getting one if that's what the athlete wants. Most of the the big time athletic schools aren't like HC. The schools are big enough where that 2:00 English Lit class is also offered at 8:00 AM. Oh and by the way Johnny Averagestudent can quickly get bumped out of that 8:00 class so the athlete can get in.
I don't think it's easy. The first lesson of college better be one about time management and you need to learn it fast. It's not easy, but it's doable if the athlete wants to
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Post by mm67 on Mar 27, 2021 9:41:17 GMT -5
An education can be had... Surely at some big time schools an education at some level can be had by some students. It is tempting to place the onus on the youngsters (victims?) rather than on the school/ adults.
Unfortunately, based on my personal knowledge, there are too many cases in which an education cannot be had by athletes . Many athletes are enrolled solely to play a sport, not get an education (as some of my former students were told in college.) Under the table money is commonly provided in various forms. Students are taught by adults to be cynical & jaded and little else.
Also, some youngsters are not academically inclined or prepared for school and schools do not provide the educational support/push which some need and should get. Classwork is extremely difficult for some whereas sports are the easier path of least resistance.For these students sports participation is regularly promoted over classroom participation. Ways around any NCAA mandates are routinely followed by school administrators/coaches. It has been quite upsetting for me to bear witness to these same type of stories told to me over the years by former students.(I had been hoping that at least remedial learning would be provided to the athlete-students. Unfortunately in many cases it was not.)
Big time college sports factories are merely a Potemkin Village set up by adults for the financial benefit of adults.Peace.
Add into the mix sham high schools and some Junior College sports factories which are nothing more than sports farms for the colleges.
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Post by DiMarz on Mar 28, 2021 14:27:58 GMT -5
mm67 you are so correct! I was at a coaching clinic years ago when one of the speakers talked about the start of his season and the schedule they had. Double sessions on the court, weight room time and individual workouts..When the speaker was asked "when do they go to class?", his response was "In the summer!"...
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 28, 2021 15:10:57 GMT -5
That is sad to hear. I prefer stories I hear from PL schools about how athletes use every spare minute to do a academic work. They find ways to fit in their studies.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 28, 2021 15:20:05 GMT -5
That is sad to hear. I prefer stories I hear from PL schools about how athletes use every spare minute to do a academic work. They find ways to fit in their studies. Freshman QB Sluka can only squeeze practice in one day per week because of class schedule. Reason #990 to admire Coach Chesney for the way he just stated that like of course that is the correct order of priority. Probably class schedules are skewed because of Covid limits on students per classroom, but Coach Chesney hasn't complained about anything during all the Covid disruptions to the football season. A great role model. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 28, 2021 16:05:12 GMT -5
That is sad to hear. I prefer stories I hear from PL schools about how athletes use every spare minute to do a academic work. They find ways to fit in their studies. Freshman QB Sluka can only squeeze practice in one day per week because of class schedule. Reason #990 to admire Coach Chesney for the way he just stated that like of course that is the correct order of priority. Probably class schedules are skewed because of Covid limits on students per classroom, but Coach Chesney hasn't complained about anything during all the Covid disruptions to the football season. A great role model.Amen |
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Post by mm67 on Mar 28, 2021 16:15:14 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the PL is not the rule at many big time programs.
Had a former student tell me he was forced to change his major at Michigan to fit the demands of his team. He was threatened with losing his scholarship if he did not make the necessary changes in classes required for his major. As he related, he was in effect told that academics were second. He was there to play ball. He changed majors, kept his scholarship and did graduate a very bitter young man. Die hards might ask: Why not change schools for your last two years? Think about it and the answer is obvious.
Listening to the skunk, Raftery hyping the game to pump up ratings and his income as well. He & Vitale are tough for me to take. Adults pimping kids for money.Turned off the sound as usual. Big time college sports along with boxing are guilty pleasures.
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