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Post by timholycross on Jun 12, 2021 11:05:25 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn't include Pedro's incredible season during the steroid era.
Hope deGrom's ok!
On the other end of the pitching spectrum is the performance given last night by Tyler Chatwood of the Jays- 3 batters faced, 11 pitches- 2 strikes, 7 balls and 2 hit batsmen. Plus, none of the 7 balls were remotely close to the plate.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 12, 2021 14:03:03 GMT -5
In a post-game interview, DeGrom spoke of the tightness and said he wanted to come out just as a precaution...playing it safe. It doesn't sound too bad.
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MLB 2021
Jun 12, 2021 15:04:32 GMT -5
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Post by hchoops on Jun 12, 2021 15:04:32 GMT -5
Jake did his usual soft toss today(Saturday) with no issues
MRI this morning was negative
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jun 12, 2021 16:08:57 GMT -5
Have gotten a little lost in the deGrom love fest, so this may have already been mentioned somewhere above about MLB 2021 . . . The MLB-wide batting average is currently .237. The only other season (in 135+ years) where it was this low was 1968, rightly considered the worst hitting season ever.. For better or worse, baseball strategy continues to (d)evolve towards a reliance on the Three True Outcomes*, and a look back at league-wide performances in 1968 demonstrates that change over the last 50 years. Debatable whether it has created a more exciting product or efficient offenses now compared to then. *(HR+BB+K)/PA calltothepen.com/2020/11/20/mlb-the-falsity-of-three-true-outcomes/ 1968 (average per game)HR. 0.61 BB. 2.82 K. 5.89 PA/G. 37.18. TTO, 25% 2018 (average per game)HR 1.15 BB 3.23 K 8.98 PA/G 38.08. TTO, 34% And TTO continues to inch higher (37% last year), virtually all of it coming from nearly twice as man homers and 50%+ more strikeouts than in 1968, while OBP falls to its lowest level (.313) since 1972. Can't say I'm a big fan of this all-or-nothing approach myself, but it's sure in vogue now. So if you enjoy watching Bobby Dalbec at the plate, you're in luck.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 12, 2021 21:00:50 GMT -5
Have gotten a little lost in the deGrom love fest, so this may have already been mentioned somewhere above about MLB 2021 . . . The MLB-wide batting average is currently .237. The only other season (in 135+ years) where it was this low was 1968, rightly considered the worst hitting season ever.. For better or worse, baseball strategy continues to (d)evolve towards a reliance on the Three True Outcomes*, and a look back at league-wide performances in 1968 demonstrates that change over the last 50 years. Debatable whether it has created a more exciting product or efficient offenses now compared to then. *(HR+BB+K)/PA calltothepen.com/2020/11/20/mlb-the-falsity-of-three-true-outcomes/ 1968 (average per game)HR. 0.61 BB. 2.82 K. 5.89 PA/G. 37.18. TTO, 25% 2018 (average per game)HR 1.15 BB 3.23 K 8.98 PA/G 38.08. TTO, 34% And TTO continues to inch higher (37% last year), virtually all of it coming from nearly twice as man homers and 50%+ more strikeouts than in 1968, while OBP falls to its lowest level (.313) since 1972. Can't say I'm a big fan of this all-or-nothing approach myself, but it's sure in vogue now. So if you enjoy watching Bobby Dalbec at the plate, you're in luck. Well, the numbers are up at the plate since MLB has started to threaten pitchers over loading up the ball. www.si.com/mlb/2021/06/04/sticky-stuff-is-the-new-steroids-daily-cover
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 12, 2021 21:59:15 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn't include Pedro's incredible season during the steroid era. Hope deGrom's ok! On the other end of the pitching spectrum is the performance given last night by Tyler Chatwood of the Jays- 3 batters faced, 11 pitches- 2 strikes, 7 balls and 2 hit batsmen. Plus, none of the 7 balls were remotely close to the plate. Yeah, Pedro blew up like Charles Atlas and was a one year wonder like Brady Anderson during the steroid era. I actually never heard of him being associated with steroids. Was he on any list?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 13, 2021 0:12:23 GMT -5
Maybe the "incredible" part was that he had such a season when some of the opposing batters were all roided up?
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Post by timholycross on Jun 13, 2021 8:30:44 GMT -5
Don't remember anything in his performances that pointed to 'roids. Seemed like a very normal career progression for someone outstanding whose arm wore out eventually (and for a while after that still got guys out on smarts).
If only Grady got him out of there after Jeter's rocket line drive eluded Trot Nixon. 7 1/3 innings was enough. But, I digress.
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MLB 2021
Jun 13, 2021 8:51:01 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 13, 2021 8:51:01 GMT -5
I'm sorry I didn't include Pedro's incredible season during the steroid era. Hope deGrom's ok! On the other end of the pitching spectrum is the performance given last night by Tyler Chatwood of the Jays- 3 batters faced, 11 pitches- 2 strikes, 7 balls and 2 hit batsmen. Plus, none of the 7 balls were remotely close to the plate. Yeah, Pedro blew up like Charles Atlas and was a one year wonder like Brady Anderson during the steroid era.  I actually never heard of him being associated with steroids. Was he on any list? YES. He was on the list of 103 players that tested positive in 2003, the year that the testing was supposed to be anonyomous. The list was leaked in 2009 after an insider released the fact that AROD testes positive that year. But in todays world of selective outrage, AROD's positive test continues to be held over his head while the media pretends it never happened for a number of the other players on that list.
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MLB 2021
Jun 13, 2021 10:32:21 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 13, 2021 10:32:21 GMT -5
Yeah, Pedro blew up like Charles Atlas and was a one year wonder like Brady Anderson during the steroid era. I actually never heard of him being associated with steroids. Was he on any list? YES. He was on the list of 103 players that tested positive in 2003, the year that the testing was supposed to be anonyomous. The list was leaked in 2009 after an insider released the fact that AROD testes positive that year. But in todays world of selective outrage, AROD's positive test continues to be held over his head while the media pretends it never happened for a number of the other players on that list. That's ringing a bell. Interesting that Papi got much more grief from being on that or a similar list. Perhaps because slugging numbers are so closely associated with steroids after the McGuire/Sosa home run race which ironically resuscitated baseball.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 13, 2021 14:59:00 GMT -5
YES. He was on the list of 103 players that tested positive in 2003, the year that the testing was supposed to be anonyomous. The list was leaked in 2009 after an insider released the fact that AROD testes positive that year. But in todays world of selective outrage, AROD's positive test continues to be held over his head while the media pretends it never happened for a number of the other players on that list. That's ringing a bell. Interesting that Papi got much more grief from being on that or a similar list. Perhaps because slugging numbers are so closely associated with steroids after the McGuire/Soda home run race which ironically resuscitated baseball. All I can find is this: fansided.com/2014/08/17/boston-radio-hosts-accuse-pedro-martinez-using-steroids/ Talk about being accused by 3 a-holes. And our buddy Dan S. didn't pile on; which he's done w/Big Papi numerous times.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 13, 2021 18:35:25 GMT -5
That's ringing a bell. Interesting that Papi got much more grief from being on that or a similar list. Perhaps because slugging numbers are so closely associated with steroids after the McGuire/Soda home run race which ironically resuscitated baseball. All I can find is this: fansided.com/2014/08/17/boston-radio-hosts-accuse-pedro-martinez-using-steroids/ Talk about being accused by 3 a-holes. And our buddy Dan S. didn't pile on; which he's done w/Big Papi numerous times. And Ortiz career trajectory should be more eye raising than it gets. He hit .266 with 58 homers with 238 RBI over six seasons totally 1477 at bats in Minnesota from age 21-26. In Boston, he hit .290 with 483 homers and 1530 RBI in 8,398 at bats in Boston over 14 years.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 13, 2021 21:23:31 GMT -5
And Ortiz career trajectory should be more eye raising than it gets. He hit .266 with 58 homers with 238 RBI over six seasons totally 1477 at bats in Minnesota from age 21-26. In Boston, he hit .290 with 483 homers and 1530 RBI in 8,398 at bats in Boston over 14 years. The only thing eyebrow-raising about Ortiz's career when it comes to steroids is the one positive test (the one in 2003 that was supposed to be anonymous per MLBPA labor agreement). Ortiz violated MLB drug policy zero times. That's ultimately what should matter. And just about his entire career in Boston took place while testing was in place. Fortunately for Ortiz, the media loves him so he'll have no problem getting into Cooperstown, and deservedly so.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 13, 2021 22:47:51 GMT -5
And Ortiz career trajectory should be more eye raising than it gets. He hit .266 with 58 homers with 238 RBI over six seasons totally 1477 at bats in Minnesota from age 21-26. In Boston, he hit .290 with 483 homers and 1530 RBI in 8,398 at bats in Boston over 14 years. The only thing eyebrow-raising about Ortiz's career when it comes to steroids is the one positive test (the one in 2003 that was supposed to be anonymous per MLBPA labor agreement). Ortiz violated MLB drug policy zero times. That's ultimately what should matter. And just about his entire career in Boston took place while testing was in place. Fortunately for Ortiz, the media loves him so he'll have no problem getting into Cooperstown, and deservedly so. The media minus Dan Shaughnessy HC'75, as Tim noted. Even after Big Papi got shot and almost killed in the D.R. Dan kept picking at that scab, continually mocking the hiring of former Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis to investigate it like it was a game or something. That was puzzling because Dan is generally entertaining especially to Baby Boomers who get his dated references and not overly cruel as columnists go.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jun 14, 2021 3:05:26 GMT -5
That's ringing a bell. Interesting that Papi got much more grief from being on that or a similar list. Perhaps because slugging numbers are so closely associated with steroids after the McGuire/Soda home run race which ironically resuscitated baseball. All I can find is this: fansided.com/2014/08/17/boston-radio-hosts-accuse-pedro-martinez-using-steroids/ Talk about being accused by 3 a-holes. And our buddy Dan S. didn't pile on; which he's done w/Big Papi numerous times. It's hard for me to choose which one of the 3 I hate the most.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 14, 2021 8:19:27 GMT -5
Ortiz didn't break the MLB rules, so doping--which the rest of the planet has rules against-- should be viewed as him not cheating? Got it.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 14, 2021 9:45:08 GMT -5
It's hard for me to choose which one of the 3 I hate the most. Dumb, weak circumstantial arguments. I hate when know-it-all pundits cite "trajectories" or "suspicious injuries" to try to pin PED use on people. With regards to Pedro, yes he tested positive in 2003 (the year testing was supposed to be anonymous). No, he never violated MLB drug policy by testing positive for any ban substance from 2004 on. Nor is there any hard evidence that he was taking steroids at any point prior to 2003. As a Yankees fan, I remember making sure to watch SportsCenter the morning after every Pedro start, to see how many K's he rung up. From 1998-2000 he was borderline untouchable. Steroids or no steroids, he was practically unhittable during an era of offensive explosion. I'm sure some of you guys remember the Pedro v. Clemens game in 2000 => Sox won 2-0 behind an 8th inning Trot Nixon HR and Bernie Williams flew out to the track to end the game with 2 guys on. Both starters went distance. Also the 17-strikeout performance at Yankee Stadium in 1999. Only Yankee to reach base was Chili Davis, who homered early to break-up the perfecto, no-hitter and shutout. Sox won 3-1. We started to turn our luck around against Pedro in about 2001 or so, hence the "Who's Your Daddy" chants that everyone remembers from the 2003 and 2004 postseason series.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 15, 2021 7:50:46 GMT -5
Pedro was great nearly his whole career, from early on, only got slightly better, and held that level of performance consistently. He was also a pitcher, who threw every five days, never had to hit, and while he was at the peak of the position, did similar things to other players in his generation. He faded fast due to injuries and fatigue on his arm. After his age 33 season, he never threw over 133 innings again, and was retired by 37.
Ortiz was trash for a number of years, juiced up and got even bigger, and was the size of an ox in his Red Sox years. He was 40 years old, generated over 5 WAR (tying the 3rd best season in his 20 year career), and hit 38 homers. He hit FORTY-EIGHT doubles, leading the AL. He led the lead in RBI. He led the league in Slugging and OPS. He. Was. 40. Years. Old. If you don't think steroids put him into a different plane of performance relative to "clean" peers, you're representing the stereotype of SAWX fandom.
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MLB 2021
Jun 15, 2021 14:41:59 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 15, 2021 14:41:59 GMT -5
Pedro was great nearly his whole career, from early on, only got slightly better, and held that level of performance consistently. He was also a pitcher, who threw every five days, never had to hit, and while he was at the peak of the position, did similar things to other players in his generation. He faded fast due to injuries and fatigue on his arm. After his age 33 season, he never threw over 133 innings again, and was retired by 37. Ortiz was trash for a number of years, juiced up and got even bigger, and was the size of an ox in his Red Sox years. He was 40 years old, generated over 5 WAR (tying the 3rd best season in his 20 year career), and hit 38 homers. He hit FORTY-EIGHT doubles, leading the AL. He led the lead in RBI. He led the league in Slugging and OPS. He. Was. 40. Years. Old. If you don't think steroids put him into a different plane of performance relative to "clean" peers, you're representing the stereotype of SAWX fandom. Whats your point? That its ok to have tested positive for steroids if you finish your career with consistent stats? Or that you think Ortiz was "on something" that didnt get detected by MLB testing from 2004 to the end of his career?
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 15, 2021 16:43:39 GMT -5
I'm saying there is zero evidence that Pedro did it, and that his physical makeup, performance consistency, and aging/injuring/fading within the familiar age range seem to corroborate it. I can't find a list of 103 players that did test positive and was leaked.
I'm saying that there's tons of evidence that Ortiz did it, his physical makeup changed, his performance spiked, he aged/performed quite-unnaturally, and he's still revered as a lock for the HoF and an all-around great guy.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 15, 2021 17:05:05 GMT -5
Pedro was great nearly his whole career, from early on, only got slightly better, and held that level of performance consistently. He was also a pitcher, who threw every five days, never had to hit, and while he was at the peak of the position, did similar things to other players in his generation. He faded fast due to injuries and fatigue on his arm. After his age 33 season, he never threw over 133 innings again, and was retired by 37. Ortiz was trash for a number of years, juiced up and got even bigger, and was the size of an ox in his Red Sox years. He was 40 years old, generated over 5 WAR (tying the 3rd best season in his 20 year career), and hit 38 homers. He hit FORTY-EIGHT doubles, leading the AL. He led the lead in RBI. He led the league in Slugging and OPS. He. Was. 40. Years. Old. If you don't think steroids put him into a different plane of performance relative to "clean" peers, you're representing the stereotype of SAWX fandom. Some of those doubles might have been triples for other players. Papi's heel was a stub by the end of his career as I recall, influencing his decision to retire when he was still one of the best sluggers in the game. Like the disappointment of Grady Little not pulling Pedro when he was out of gas in the 2003 playoffs, I was disappointed with the way the Red Sox handled the celebrating during his final games, coordinated by Dr. Charles Steinberg, the current Woo Sox President. The Red Sox were in the post season in 2016 but all the gala salutes to Ortiz distracted and fatigued him and both he and the Sox fizzled out. He only hit .111 with no HRs after being Mr. Post Season for much of his career. I was disappointed for him because whether he juiced or not he has a great personality and was/is a great ambassador for the game.
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MLB 2021
Jun 15, 2021 20:44:39 GMT -5
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 15, 2021 20:44:39 GMT -5
I'm saying there is zero evidence that Pedro did it, and that his physical makeup, performance consistency, and aging/injuring/fading within the familiar age range seem to corroborate it. I can't find a list of 103 players that did test positive and was leaked. I'm saying that there's tons of evidence that Ortiz did it, his physical makeup changed, his performance spiked, he aged/performed quite-unnaturally, and he's still revered as a lock for the HoF and an all-around great guy. The list has been out since 2009. It was released right after it got leaked that AROD tested positive in 2003. Pedro was 100% on the list along with Big Papi. Other notable names included Bonds, Clemens, Pettitte, Giambi, Pudge, Sosa, Manny and Nomar. The list has disappeared and re-appeared several times on the internet since 2009. Im sure the players union has done their best to have the web scrubbed. Again, none of the 103 names would've ever been leaked had some insider not had an agenda against Alex Rodriguez.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jun 15, 2021 21:07:01 GMT -5
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MLB 2021
Jun 16, 2021 2:09:00 GMT -5
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 16, 2021 2:09:00 GMT -5
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jun 16, 2021 9:10:45 GMT -5
Rumored, not citations. Not saying it's outright false, but not entirely reliable either.
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