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Post by timholycross on Aug 19, 2021 7:38:41 GMT -5
Had no effects from Shot 1 and Shot 2 whatsoever, so in January (8 mos), all things being as they are now, I'll give Shot 3 a shot.
But, this initiative is guesswork, not following the science. There's no clinical trial, no proof of anything good or anything bad.
I also don't think too many people fell for the timing of Biden's announcement either. Let's just say a few other things should have been on his mind; the booster announcement wasn't a priority for too many Americans right now.
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Post by trimster on Aug 19, 2021 7:48:16 GMT -5
Had no effects from Shot 1 and Shot 2 whatsoever, so in January (8 mos), all things being as they are now, I'll give Shot 3 a shot. But, this initiative is guesswork, not following the science. There's no clinical trial, no proof of anything good or anything bad. I also don't think too many people fell for the timing of Biden's announcement either. Let's just say a few other things should have been on his mind; the booster announcement wasn't a priority for too many Americans right now. Perhaps it should be. At the risk of stating the obvious, I would much rather be ahead of the curve on this one.
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Post by timholycross on Aug 19, 2021 8:37:28 GMT -5
Had no effects from Shot 1 and Shot 2 whatsoever, so in January (8 mos), all things being as they are now, I'll give Shot 3 a shot. But, this initiative is guesswork, not following the science. There's no clinical trial, no proof of anything good or anything bad. I also don't think too many people fell for the timing of Biden's announcement either. Let's just say a few other things should have been on his mind; the booster announcement wasn't a priority for too many Americans right now. Perhaps it should be. At the risk of stating the obvious, I would much rather be ahead of the curve on this one. The big thing w/#3 (or some other therapy) would be is if it didn't cause the virus to be transmitted to someone else under any circumstances.
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Post by Tom on Aug 19, 2021 8:48:06 GMT -5
A lot of the opposition to this potential booster is that while it will be helpful, it would be way better to give first doses to people in other countries than making our good immunity (or resistance to bad effects) even better
----------------------- On a semi related note, only 49 states will be receiving "booster" shots. In Massachusetts we will be getting "borcester" shots
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Post by lou on Aug 19, 2021 9:09:10 GMT -5
A lot of the opposition to this potential booster is that while it will be helpful, it would be way better to give first doses to people in other countries than making our good immunity (or resistance to bad effects) even better ----------------------- On a semi related note, only 49 states will be receiving "booster" shots. In Massachusetts we will be getting "borcester" shots Dr Fauci answered that question last night. He said both were important, the booster and global distribution, and that both were do-able
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 19, 2021 9:18:24 GMT -5
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 19, 2021 10:15:55 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Aug 19, 2021 15:53:34 GMT -5
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Post by efg72 on Aug 19, 2021 16:09:48 GMT -5
Connected to Covid
Imho a great speech given by a former colleague and friend from industry-he became the Gov of Indiana before being the President of Purdue
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 19, 2021 21:04:14 GMT -5
www.oregonlive.com/news/2021/08/covid-19-spread-at-an-outdoor-concert-what-does-that-mean-for-oregons-big-summer-events.htmlCOVID-19 spread at an outdoor concert. What does that mean for Oregon’s big upcoming events? By Aimee Green | The Oregonian/OregonLive Updated: Aug. 17, 2021, 10:09 a.m. | Published: Aug. 17, 2021, 7:00 a.m. Fans at Autzen Stadium The Ducks' first football game of the season at Autzen Stadium on Sept. 4, 2021 could conceivably look like it has in the past, packed with fans. Currently, Oregon has no capacity limits in place, no outdoor mask mandate and no physical distancing rules. (File photo/Sean Meagher/Staff) A 12,000-fan outdoor music festival was all that eastern Oregon’s Umatilla County needed to spark a new COVID-19 surge, says the county’s public health director -- with officials in other parts of the state and nation now eying crowded outdoor events with renewed concern in the age of the highly contagious delta variant. The worry grows as a spate of mass outdoor gatherings are scheduled in Oregon this late summer: Up to 350,000 people expected to descend on the Oregon State Fairgrounds over 11 days starting next week, 54,000 fans slated to pack Autzen Stadium for the first home football game of the season Sept. 4, 45,000 anticipated at Oregon State University’s home opener a week later and 60,000 buckaroo enthusiasts at the Pendleton Round-Up in mid-September. That’s even though anecdotally, compelling examples of outdoor transmission are upending conventional wisdom into how COVID-19 is spread. County officials say at least 66 cases were traced to the Pendleton Whisky Music Fest on July 10, one of the first mass outdoor gatherings to take place in Oregon after the governor lifted all capacity limits June 30. Umatilla County Public Health Director Joseph Fiumara said the first positive tests started rolling in four or five days after the fest concluded and cases exploded nearly seven-fold just three weeks later, far outpacing rates across the rest of the state. “It’s too much of a coincidence for me to think it didn’t at least have a jumpstart effect,” Fiumara said. He said he’s now bracing himself for the tens of thousands of visitors from all over the state who will descend on his county in several weeks for the Pendleton Round-Up. “I’m nervous,” Fiumara said. Fiumara said his concerns only have been “bolstered” by news that more than 160 people were infected at the 20,000-fan Watershed Music Festival in Central Washington in late July. Until recently, outdoor COVID-19 transmission was considered virtually a non-issue -- with some epidemiologists estimating that outdoor spread might make up less than one-tenth of a percent of overall cases during the first 15 months of the pandemic. But a growing number of public health experts are breaching the much-debated topic – warning the delta variant has proven itself a game-changer. With research showing people infected with delta carry 1,000 times the viral load in their noses as previous strains, experts say delta is packing a wallop indoors and to a much lesser, but increasing, degree outdoors as well. Critics of the idea of significant outdoor transmission question whether it could be spreading in other places, such as the indoor restaurants, bars, shops or hotels that concert-goers might also patronize. Contact tracers, however, say they believe the outdoor venues are the most likely source of spread. When University of Denver aerosol scientist Alex Huffman has seen photos of shoulder-to-shoulder throngs at venues across the country, he’s noted this “is a bad, bad idea” and “this is not what we mean” about spending time outdoors typically being safe. After seeing the maskless masses pushed up against the stage at the Pendleton Whisky Music Fest, he tweeted: “Any ‘surprise’ here shows we still need to educate that viral aerosols can also easily infect at short distances outdoors - esp. if you are inches from another screaming concert-goer!” Huffman told The Oregonian/OregonLive that standing directly in someone else’s exhalation “plume” means you’re inhaling the aerosols that they breathe out, even if you are outdoors. It’s no different, Huffman said, than taking in the exhaled fumes of a smoker. Huffman said standing beside an infected person long enough -- 10 minutes, an hour, two hours -- could expose someone to a tremendous viral load. Possibly even enough to infect a vaccinated person. Of the 66 infections linked to the Pendleton Whisky Music Fest, five were in fully vaccinated people, Fiumara said. “Outdoors is still wildly safer than indoors,” Huffman said. “But if you’re outdoors smushed up against a bunch of other people, you can’t treat that the same as if you’re outdoors taking a walk distanced from other people.” Ali Mokdad, a University of Washington epidemiologist, takes it a step further. Even though he’s fully vaccinated, he puts a mask on before someone crosses his path while walking on the trails near his Seattle-area home -- a simple precaution to avoid infection, he said. “We have no doubt in our minds that there’s outdoor spread of delta. Delta is so infectious,” said Mokdad, who tracks cases and puts out forecasts with his colleagues at the UW’s Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation. “Outdoors we need to use common sense, meaning, ‘I’m far enough away from you so I don’t get infected.’” Although many people may still think warnings of outdoor spread are overblown, Mokdad said that rationale is outdated now because of the proliferation of the delta variant. Some argue the small number of cases linked to an event represents a tiny proportion of attendees. The 66 infections traced to the 12,000 people at the Pendleton Whisky Music Fest amount to just over half a percent. But Huffman, the aerosol scientist, says those cases can spread exponentially. Others point out that the true number of new infections might be far larger than those identified by public health officials. Scientists on both sides of the discussion believe more study needs to be done. There’s little research into delta’s transmissibility outdoors because it’s so new. First detected in India late last year, the strain was responsible for less than 10% of cases in the United States by early June, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. That grew to 51% by early July and 93% by early August. Chicago’s public health commissioner last week reported 203 new known infections traced to Lollapalooza, an outdoor concert 385,000 fans strong, 14 days after the event concluded. Commissioner Dr. Allison Arwady said there ended up being “no evidence at this point of (a) ‘super-spreader’ event,” noting that all participants were required to present proof of vaccination or a recent negative test. Similar vaccination and testing rules were in place in at an early July music fest in the Netherlands, where more than 1,000 infections were linked to among the 20,000 fans, stunning officials given the strict entry requirements to the outdoor venue. Even much smaller gatherings are causing alarm. Officials have pegged six infections to a University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill start-of-the-school-year gathering with about 150 pharmacy students outdoors. In some regions of Australia, which is in a desperate fight to eradicate the virus, the government is mandating masks outdoors as well as indoors. Melbourne has closed playgrounds and basketball courts over concerns about outdoor spread. While one leader described delta as “a gold medalist when it comes to jumping from one person to another,” another criticized the playground shutdown as “cruel” and “unnecessary overreach.’ Contact tracers in that country have documented a small number of cases of fleeting contact in which the virus was spread -- including a woman sitting outside at a cafe who was sickened by a man who’d also visited the cafe but dined indoors. Dr. Nancy Yen Shipley, a Portland orthopedic surgeon, said she’s concerned enough about outdoor spread that even though she’s fully vaccinated she wore a mask in the congested sections of this year’s Bridge Pedal, which was 10,000 cyclists and walkers strong across the Willamette River’s Portland spans Aug. 8. “Could I reach out and tap the shoulder of a stranger?” she said. “I could. And in those situations, I kept my mask on.”
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Post by bfoley82 on Aug 19, 2021 21:15:20 GMT -5
fordhamsports.com/sports/2021/8/5/visitor-fans-regulations-aug-5-2021.aspxFordham Visiting Team/Guest Policies (as of August 5, 2021) Visiting Teams/Staff All visiting team members, including coaches, student-athletes, and support staff must be vaccinated for all events (both indoor and outdoor competitions). Individuals must show proof of vaccination when they arrive on campus. The University will not allow any unvaccinated visiting team members or coaches to enter campus. Fans at Outdoor Events Fans/guests will be permitted to attend outdoor events All fans/guests at outdoor competitions must show proof of vaccination when they enter campus. Children under 12 will not be allowed to attend outdoor events even if they are masked and have a negative COVID test. Fans at Indoor Events Fans/guests will not be allowed at indoor competitions, regardless of vaccination status. To limit potential COVID spread, only teams and coaches will be allowed at indoor competitions. Note: Policies are subject to change due to local/national COVID policies. It has been updated Fordham Visiting Team/Guest Policies fordhamsports.com/sports/2021/8/5/visitor-fans-regulations-aug-5-2021.aspx(as of August 19, 2021) Visiting Teams/Staff All visiting team members, including coaches, student-athletes, and support staff must be vaccinated for all events (both indoor and outdoor competitions). Individuals must show proof of vaccination when they arrive on campus. The University will not allow any unvaccinated visiting team members or coaches to enter campus. Fans at Outdoor Events Fans/guests will be permitted to attend outdoor events. All fans/guests at outdoor competitions must show proof of vaccination when they enter campus. Children under 12 will not be allowed to attend outdoor events even if they are masked and have a negative COVID test. Fans at Indoor Events Fans/guests will be allowed at indoor competitions. All fans/guests at indoor competitions must show proof of vaccination when they enter campus. All fans/guests at indoor competitions must wear a mask while indoors. Children under 12 will not be allowed to attend indoor events even if they are masked and have a negative COVID test. Note: Policies are subject to change due to local/national COVID policies.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 19, 2021 21:38:29 GMT -5
The rest of the article from the Oregonian, that was not included with Part 1 previously posted.
The CDC recommends avoiding large gatherings, indoors or out.
The agency also says fully vaccinated people as well as unvaccinated people don’t need to wear masks outdoors in general, but they should “consider” doing so in crowded settings in communities with high COVID-19 case counts or when in close contact with people who aren’t fully vaccinated.
The Oregon Health Authority recommends mask usage outdoors in crowded settings for residents who are unvaccinated, immunocompromised, at severe risk of COVID-19 complications or live with someone who meets those definitions.
Some non-governmental experts say that doesn’t go nearly far enough – that if you must attend a crowded event indoors or out, wear a high quality mask, such as an N95 or KN95. Even at smaller events, such as a big backyard barbecue, it’s a good idea to keep your distance or wear a mask, some experts advise.
Charles Boyle, a spokesman for Gov. Kate Brown, suggested it’d be “prudent” for crowded indoor and outdoor venues to require vaccine verification. He also suggested crowded outdoor venues require masks.
The governor already is requiring masks in all indoor public spaces. She became the third in the nation to require that, under considerable pushback from some COVID-weary residents, especially in more rural parts of the state.
At a news conference last week, Brown didn’t directly answer a question about whether she’s considering canceling major events, such as college football games or the Pendleton Round-Up, because the state is logging record numbers of cases and hospitalizations. She said she has no plans in the works to require businesses or venues to allow only fully vaccinated people to gain entry.
“Local authorities still have the ability to take further action if they’d like to do so,” Brown noted, even as she criticized those same local officials for not instituting indoor mask mandates.
Umatilla County Chair George Murdock said his board won’t cancel the Round-Up -- it generates $60 million in his county of 81,000 residents. He agrees that last month’s Whisky Music Fest likely drove up the county’s infections more swiftly than they otherwise would have.
Murdock said he felt bad about that situation, giving credit to the organizers who reduced capacity by 40% to allow attendees more space for their safety.
But the governor’s previous limits on mass gatherings forced the cancelation of last year’s Round-Up, and Murdock said the local economy just can’t afford to miss another year.
“It’s a real conundrum for us because so many of our people have chosen not to get vaccinated,” Murdock said.
He hopes more people get the jab. Umatilla is in the bottom five of Oregon’s 36 counties, with about 41% of the total population fully vaccinated, compared to about 56% for the state. Vaccinations, however, are ticking up at a faster pace.
“I know there’s some people who won’t agree and probably think we’re reckless and foolish, but we’ve watched our community struggle for the past 18 months,” he said. “A lot of our businesses are holding on by a thread.”
-- Aimee Green; agreen@oregonian.com; @o_aimee
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Post by hcpride on Aug 20, 2021 5:09:14 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Aug 20, 2021 7:33:22 GMT -5
My non educated guess is nobody I think I signed something acknowledging that I was receiving a vaccine not fully approved by the FDA
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Post by Tom on Aug 20, 2021 7:44:15 GMT -5
The worry grows as a spate of mass outdoor gatherings are scheduled in Oregon this late summer: Up to 350,000 people expected to descend on the Oregon State Fairgrounds over 11 days starting next week, 54,000 fans slated to pack Autzen Stadium for the first home football game of the season Sept. 4, 45,000 anticipated at Oregon State University’s home opener a week later and 60,000 buckaroo enthusiasts at the Pendleton Round-Up in mid-September. I am going on record as saying there will be fewer than 54,000 in Fitton on September 11. Based solely on a percentage of capacity, Fitton should be safer than Autzen The biggest difference between Fordham and HC right now is that Fordham fans need to be vaccinated for outdoor events and HC fans do not. Still a very fluid situation. No guarantee HC policy will not change between Aug 20 and Sept 11.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Aug 20, 2021 18:46:23 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on Aug 20, 2021 23:03:24 GMT -5
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Post by efg72 on Aug 21, 2021 7:58:07 GMT -5
Science Can’t Keep Up With Virus, Creating Worry for Vaccinated
Anecdotes signal surprising number of infections in vaccinated Officials must formulate plans despite a dearth of hard data
By Kristen V. Brown and Rebecca Torrence | August 21, 2021 5:00AM ET
Anecdotes tell us what the data can’t: Vaccinated people appear to be getting the coronavirus at a surprisingly high rate. But exactly how often isn’t clear, nor is it certain how likely they are to spread the virus to others. And now, there’s growing concern that vaccinated people may be more vulnerable to serious illness than previously thought.
There’s a dearth of scientific studies with concrete answers, leaving public policy makers and corporate executives to formulate plans based on fragmented information. While some are renewing mask mandates or delaying office reopenings, others cite the lack of clarity to justify staying the course. It can all feel like a mess.
“We have to be humble about what we do know and what we don’t know,” said Tom Frieden, a former director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the head of the nonprofit Resolve to Save Lives. “There are a few things we can say definitively. One is that this is a hard question to address.”
Read more: Booster Review Delayed by CDC as Debate Swirls Over 3rd Shot
Absent clear public health messaging, vaccinated people are left confused about how to protect themselves. Just how vulnerable they are is a key variable not just for public health officials trying to figure out, say, when booster shots might be needed, but also to inform decisions about whether to roll back reopenings amid a new wave of the virus. On a smaller scale, the unknowns have left music lovers unsure if it’s OK to see a concert and prompted a fresh round of hang-wringing among parents pondering what school is going to look like.
In lieu of answers, what has emerged is a host of case studies providing somewhat different pictures of breakthrough infections. Variables including when the surveys were conducted, whether the delta variant was present, how much of the population was vaccinated and even what the weather was like at the time make it hard to compare results and suss out patterns. It’s difficult to know which data might ultimately carry more heft.
“It’s quite clear that we have more breakthroughs now,” said Monica Gandhi, an infectious disease expert at the University of California, San Francisco. “We all know someone who has had one. But we don’t have great clinical data.”
Photographer: Barry Chin/The Boston Globe via Getty Images Provincetown officials have issued a new mask-wearing advisory for indoors regardless of vaccination status. One of the best known outbreaks among vaccinated people occurred in the small beach town of Provincetown, Massachusetts, as thousands of vaccinated and unvaccinated alike gathered on dance floors and at house parties over the Fourth of July weekend to celebrate the holiday -- and what seemed like a turning point in the pandemic. About three-fourths of the 469 infections were among vaccinated people.
Read more: Are Covid Shots Working? What the Real World Tells Us
Authors of a CDC case study said this might mean that they were just as likely to transmit Covid-19 as the unvaccinated. Even so, they cautioned, as more people are vaccinated, it’s natural that they would also account for a larger share of Covid-19 infections and this one study was not sufficient to draw any conclusions. The incident prompted the CDC to reverse a recommendation it had issued just a few weeks earlier and once again urge the vaccinated to mask up in certain settings.
Still, the particular details of that cluster of cases may have made that outbreak especially bad, according to Gandhi.
“The rate of mild symptomatic outbreaks in this population was higher because of a lot of indoor activity (including intimacy), rain that weekend, not much outside time and mixture of people with different vaccination status,” she said in an email.
A newly released, far larger CDC case study of infections in New York state, meanwhile, found that the number of breakthrough infections has steadily ticked up since May, accounting for almost 4% of cases by mid-July. Those researchers cautioned that factors such as easing public health restrictions and the rise of the highly contagious delta variant might impact the results.
Yet another CDC case study, in Colorado, found that the breakthrough infection rate in one county, Mesa, was significantly higher than the rest of the state, at 7% versus about 5%. The report suggested it was perhaps because the delta variant was circulating more widely there, but also noted the ages of patients in Mesa and the lower vaccination rate may have played a role.
Research out of Israel has strongly suggested that immunity to the virus wanes in the months after inoculation, and more recently, that breakthrough cases may eventually lead to an uptick in hospitalizations.
Photographer: Emily Elconin/Bloomberg Customers at a bar in Detroit, Michigan, where the number of people in the state hospitalized with confirmed or probable Covid-19 nearly doubled over 10 days in August. Case studies and data from some states in the U.S. have similarly shown an increase in breakthrough cases over time. But with the delta variant also on the rise, it’s difficult to tell whether waning immunity to any type of coronavirus infection is to blame, or if the vaccinations are particularly ineffective against the delta variant. It could be both, of course. Changing behavior among vaccinated people could be a factor, too, as they return to social gatherings and travel and dining indoors.
All that said, some facts are well established at this point. Vaccinated people infected with the virus are much less likely to need to go to the hospital, much less likely to need intubation and much less likely to die from the illness. There’s no doubt that vaccines provide significant protection. But a large proportion of the nation -- almost 30% of U.S. adults -- have not been vaccinated, a fact that has conspired with the highly contagious delta variant to push the country into a new wave of outbreaks.
“The big picture here is that the vaccines are working and the reason for the spike in the U.S. is we have too little vaccine uptake,” Frieden said.
To a certain extent, breakthrough cases of any virus are expected. In clinical trials, no Covid vaccine was 100% effective -- even the best vaccines never are. The more the virus is in circulation, the greater the risk of breakthrough cases. It’s also common for some aspects of viral immunity to naturally wane over time.
For the time being, there are simply more questions than answers. Are breakthrough infections ticking up because of the delta variant, waning immunity or a return to normal life? Are vaccinated people more vulnerable to severe illness than previously thought? Just how common are breakthrough infections? It’s anyone’s guess.
“It is generally the case that we have to make public health decisions based on imperfect data,” Frieden said. “But there is just a lot we don’t know.”
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 21, 2021 11:58:04 GMT -5
You're right it's the Food and Drug Administration not the Food and Vaccine Administration. It's sounding like the flu shot you get once a year except this one will probably be twice a year.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 21, 2021 13:52:19 GMT -5
“ What about from a moral and ethical standpoint? Do these principles still carry any weight in our nation today? ”
No. Morality and ethics died during the last administration.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 21, 2021 13:54:10 GMT -5
Hmm
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Post by purplehaze on Aug 21, 2021 14:18:11 GMT -5
And they haven’t been restored in the last week
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Post by longsuffering on Aug 21, 2021 14:34:47 GMT -5
Truth, Justice and the American Way is Alive on Father K. Field this afternoon, if nowhere else.
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Post by timholycross on Aug 21, 2021 14:57:36 GMT -5
“ What about from a moral and ethical standpoint? Do these principles still carry any weight in our nation today? ” No. Morality and ethics died during the last administration. The Dems' answer to that was to nominate and elect someone who's exceeds the previous guy's disingenousness by leaps and bounds.
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Post by possum on Aug 21, 2021 15:05:54 GMT -5
Morality and ethics die in every Republican Administration, Watergate, Iran-Contra, Weapons of Mass Destruction and too many Trump scandals to enumerate. 142 indictments in Republican Administrations versus 2 in Democratic Administrations since 1975.
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