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Post by hcpride on May 26, 2021 20:25:55 GMT -5
To the conspiracy crowd: Correlation is not causation. If it is a conspiracy, Biden is now the ringleader (if NPR is to be believed): President Biden said on Wednesday that he has asked the U.S. intelligence community to push to get closer to a "definitive conclusion" on how the pandemic started.
In a statement, Biden said the intelligence community has "coalesced around two likely scenarios" — that the coronavirus either came from human contact with an infected animal, or from a laboratory accident in Wuhan, China.www.npr.org/2021/05/26/1000642995/biden-asks-u-s-intel-to-push-for-stronger-conclusions-on-the-coronavirus-origins(NB:Two or three days ago WAPO and NYT decided that they were wrong to label the Lab Leak Theory a debunked conspiracy theory [for reasons beyond the obvious fact it is not a conspiracy and has never been debunked] and now have decided it’s quite a reasonable theory.)
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Post by bfoley82 on May 26, 2021 22:11:46 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2021 7:54:04 GMT -5
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Post by nhteamer on May 27, 2021 9:26:45 GMT -5
To the conspiracy crowd: Correlation is not causation. Indeed Nonetheless, causation is causation no matter how much one averts one's eyes.
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Post by nhteamer on May 27, 2021 9:27:41 GMT -5
To the conspiracy crowd: Correlation is not causation. If it is a conspiracy, Biden is now the ringleader (if NPR is to be believed): President Biden said on Wednesday that he has asked the U.S. intelligence community to push to get closer to a "definitive conclusion" on how the pandemic started.
In a statement, Biden said the intelligence community has "coalesced around two likely scenarios" — that the coronavirus either came from human contact with an infected animal, or from a laboratory accident in Wuhan, China.www.npr.org/2021/05/26/1000642995/biden-asks-u-s-intel-to-push-for-stronger-conclusions-on-the-coronavirus-origins(NB:Two or three days ago WAPO and NYT decided that they were wrong to label the Lab Leak Theory a debunked conspiracy theory [for reasons beyond the obvious fact it is not a conspiracy and has never been debunked] and now have decided it’s quite a reasonable theory.)
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Post by nhteamer on May 27, 2021 9:28:08 GMT -5
Ah, NPR, all the way to the left on your radio dial.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 27, 2021 9:31:13 GMT -5
To the conspiracy crowd: Correlation is not causation. Indeed Nonetheless, causation is causation not matter how much one averts one's eyes. Yes--yet some keep doubling down on a losing proposition
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Post by Chu Chu on May 27, 2021 11:04:18 GMT -5
Phreek has provided copious documentation of SARS-CoV-2 circulating in various locations prior to December 2019 when the virus blossomed in Wuhan, China.
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Post by efg72 on May 27, 2021 11:16:18 GMT -5
WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION
SEVENTY-FOURTH WORLD HEALTH ASSEMBLY A74/A/CONF./7 Agenda item 17.3 25 May 2021
Special session of the World Health Assembly to consider developing a WHO convention, agreement or other international instrument on pandemic preparedness and response
Draft decision proposed by Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Canada, Chile, Costa Rica, Dominican Republic, Egypt, Fiji, Georgia, Iceland, Indonesia, Kenya, Montenegro, Norway, Paraguay, Philippines, Qatar, Republic of Korea, Republic of Moldova, Rwanda, Senegal, South Africa, Sudan, Thailand, Tunisia, Turkey, Ukraine, United Arab Emirates, United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, United States of America, Uruguay and Member States of the European Union
The Seventy-fourth World Health Assembly, OP 1. DECIDES:
(1) to request the Member States Working Group on Strengthening WHO Preparedness and Response to Health Emergencies to prioritize the assessment of the benefits of developing a WHO convention, agreement or other international instrument on pandemic preparedness and response and to provide a report to be considered at the special session of the Health Assembly referred to in paragraph OP1.2 of this decision;
(2) to request the Director General to convene a special session of the World Health Assembly in November 2021, and to include on the agenda of the special session only one item dedicated to considering the benefits of developing a WHO convention, agreement or other international instrument on pandemic preparedness and response with a view towards the establishment of an intergovernmental process to draft and negotiate such convention, agreement or other international instrument on pandemic preparedness and response, taking into account the report of the Working Group on Strengthening WHO Preparedness and Response to Health Emergencies referred to in paragraph OP1.1;
(3) to request the Executive Board at its 149th session to determine, in accordance with Rule 2 of the Rules of Procedure of the Health Assembly, that the special session of the Health Assembly referred to in paragraph OP1.2 of this decision will be held from A74/A/CONF./72 29 November 2021 to 1 December 2021 at WHO headquarters, either in person or virtually, if limitations to physical meetings preclude the holding of the special session in person;
(4) to suspend, in accordance with Rule 122 of the Rules of Procedure of the Health Assembly, and with respect to the above-referenced Special Session, the requirement of Rule 2 of the Rules of Procedure of the World Health Assembly under which the Director-General is to convene a special session of the Health Assembly within 90 days of the receipt of the request therefor.
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2021 11:33:48 GMT -5
Phreek has provided copious documentation of SARS-CoV-2 circulating in various locations prior to December 2019 when the virus blossomed in Wuhan, China. Actually, that DEC date is very much in doubt...WAPO is now interested in belatedly investigating the Lab Leak theory it consistently smeared as ‘a debunked conspiracy theory’: Opinion by the Editorial Board May 26, 2021 at 6:24 p.m. EDT IN THE hunt for the origins of the virus that has touched off a global pandemic, the very first cases are extremely important. They could reveal vital information about where the virus came from. China has stated that the outbreak began in Wuhan in December 2019, but this may not be the whole story: There have been suggestions by Chinese and Western scientists that some cases arose earlier. Who were the people who fell ill, and where did they encounter the virus? China should help solve this mystery, but it so far has thrown a cloak over it....
There are other clues. The South China Morning Post, based in Hong Kong, published an article by Josephine Ma, the newspaper’s China news editor, in March 2020. She reported having seen government records, never made public, showing that the earliest onset of a case was Nov. 17, 2019, and that authorities “identified at least 266 people who were infected last year, all of whom came under medical surveillance at some point.” Nine confirmed cases were in November, she reported.” www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/who-were-the-first-coronavirus-cases-china-should-help-solve-the-mystery/2021/05/26/f43d7cc0-be49-11eb-b26e-53663e6be6ff_story.html
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2021 15:57:56 GMT -5
^^^What a coincidence! The four year old problem child living outside Milan became infected with COVID on/about November 17, 2019 (allowing four days between infection and appearance of symptoms).. He was symptomatic on Nov 21, in the hospital on November 30. journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0300891620974755The first three individuals, in the first week of September, with antibodies for COVID were from three different Italian provinces: Veneto, capital is Venice. The capital of Emilia Romagna is Bologna. The capital of Liguria is Genoa. All were infected in August or earlier. The driving distance between Genoa and Venice is about 240 miles. Campania is the top of the Italian ';boot'. I'm waiting for an explanation of how COVID came to be epidemic in northern Italy in the late summer of 2019, -- at least four months before the November 17th first case in Wuhan. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time. And BTW, the range of the Greater Horseshoe bat extends from China and Southeast Asia to Italy, France, and Spain. But maybe that's a red herring.
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Post by hcpride on May 27, 2021 17:30:40 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 27, 2021 18:25:12 GMT -5
That Live Science reporting was written before publication of the 4 year old boy case. The genomic sequencing of the COVID virus that infected him identified base pairs that were only found much later in other strains (variants) of COVID in Italy. So there were variants already circulating in Italy in mid-November. The genomic sequence that Wuhan provided Fauci on January 11,2020 did not contain these variants. As for the 959 candidates in the lung cancer trial, their blood was taken over a six month period, ending in February 2020 The number of candidates whose blood was tested in February 2020 was the lowest of any month, yet this cohort subsequently tested about 20 percent positive, the highest of any month. This does coincide with the significant increase in cases in northern Italy in late February, early March. "The first laboratory-confirmed Italian COVID-19 case was identified in Lombardy on February 20, 2020, in a 38-year-old man who had no history of possible contacts with positive cases in Italy or abroad."
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Post by hcpride on May 28, 2021 4:10:05 GMT -5
Things could get very expensive for China (if one considers the costs associated with a pandemic with a hundred million survivors and 3.5 million deaths to be potentially expensive): House bills targeting China would launch coronavirus 'origins' probe, allow victims' families to sue Beijing
Both proposals, to be unveiled Friday, have bipartisan support
The first bill, the "Made in America Emergency Preparedness Act," would establish a 9/11-style bipartisan commission to investigate how the pandemic started. It is being introduced by five Democrats and five Republicans.
The second bill, dubbed the "Never Again International Outbreak Prevention Act," calls for allowing families of coronavirus victims to sue China by stripping sovereign immunity from it and any other countries "that have intentionally misled the international community on the outbreak." It will be introduced by U.S. Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick, R-Pa., and Conor Lamb, D-Pa.www.foxnews.com/politics/house-bills-targeting-china-would-launch-coronavirus-origins-probe-allow-victims-families-to-sue-beijing
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Post by hchoops on May 28, 2021 11:47:10 GMT -5
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Post by alum on May 28, 2021 12:38:17 GMT -5
Things could get very expensive for China (if one considers the costs associated with a pandemic with a hundred million survivors and 3.5 million deaths to be potentially expensive): House bills targeting China would launch coronavirus 'origins' probe, allow victims' families to sue Beijing
Both proposals, to be unveiled Friday, have bipartisan support
The first bill, the "Made in America Emergency Preparedness Act," would establish a 9/11-style bipartisan commission to investigate how the pandemic started. It is being introduced by five Democrats and five Republicans.
The second bill, dubbed the "Never Again International Outbreak Prevention Act," calls for allowing families of coronavirus victims to sue China by stripping sovereign immunity from it and any other countries "that have intentionally misled the international community on the outbreak." It will be introduced by U.S. Reps. Brian Fitzpatrick, R-Pa., and Conor Lamb, D-Pa.www.foxnews.com/politics/house-bills-targeting-china-would-launch-coronavirus-origins-probe-allow-victims-families-to-sue-beijingGlad to see you are supporting laws which make it easier for people to make bad actors pay. I firmly believe that the threat of monetary damages available through the civil justice system can be used to make the world a safer place by deterring bad behavior. I think that people in the developing world would like to sue China and the United States and companies in those nations for their roles in causing climate change and believe that such threats would push the US, the oil companies to take steps to stop climate change.
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Post by hcpride on May 28, 2021 12:59:26 GMT -5
/\ /\ Don’t know about that but if a lab leaks the deadly virus that kills 3.5 million folks it seems reasonable the lab (or it’s carrier) might be on the hook for a bit.
The good news is the ‘debunked conspiracy theory’ is now under very active investigation by the ‘experts’, the journos, and government entities. Any chance the leader of the WHO inspection in China was SGT Schultz?
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Post by alum on May 28, 2021 13:18:43 GMT -5
/\ /\ Don’t know about that but if a lab creates and then leaks the deadly virus that kills 3.5 million folks it seems reasonable the lab (or it’s carrier) might be on the hook for a bit. The good news is the ‘debunked conspiracy theory’ is now under very active investigation by the ‘experts’, the journos, and government entities. Any chance the leader of the WHO inspection in China was SGT Schultz?
While we are at it, let's allow people to sue the state of South Dakota, its governor and the organizers of the biker rally last summer that drew 460,000. Some attendees contracted Covid there and carried it home and passed it on. Oh, and a former presidential primary candidate died of Covid believed to have been sustained at a campaign rally for one of the 2020 major party candidates. Maybe his estate can sue that candidate.
There is a reason why they had that huge 9/11 victims fund. Nobody wanted to actually assess blame. It would have bankrupted states and airlines, cost the feds hundreds of millions of dollars and ruined international relations with "allies" like Saudi Arabia. One might argue that the trillions in Covid relief were really just a upfront version of the 9/11 payout model.
I don't have a problem with allowing China or other countries to be sued as long as we apply the same rules here at home.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 28, 2021 14:31:46 GMT -5
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Post by possum on May 28, 2021 14:32:48 GMT -5
20% of our fellow citizens believe in QAnon theories, 56% of Republicans believe the election was fraudulent and today establishing a bipartisan committee to investigate the insurrection was voted down, our country has so many problems to deal with other than whether the virus originated at a wet market or in a Wuhan lab.
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Post by newfieguy74 on May 28, 2021 14:45:28 GMT -5
Clear-eyed self-reflection does not seem to be what our country does best.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 28, 2021 14:51:19 GMT -5
Clear-eyed self-reflection does not seem to be what our country does best. Hypocrisy and a lack of accountability are two of Washington's paramount values. Ignorance is a third. Pandering a fourth.
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Post by hcpride on May 28, 2021 15:07:27 GMT -5
Seems to be a bit of deflection in the “All Things Covid Library”.
If the Wuhan lab released the deadly virus (assuming one considers 3.5 million deaths as qualifying for the word ‘deadly’) it seems reasonable they (or their carrier) would be on the hook for that.
Left to their own devices, the World Health Organization will doubtlessly appoint a new lead inspector for the return inspection of China and the Wuhan Lab. Hans Schultz may have missed a few things in the first WHO go round. Possibly somebody equally sharp but more senior in rank, like Wilhelm Klink.
BTW China’s deflection this AM was to compare Biden’s new Intel initiative regarding the Wuhan lab to the US search for WMD prior to the Iraq War. For those who want to parrot China’s talking point. They’ve also trotted out the old Fort Detrick and frozen food (don’t laugh) deflections. I’d imagine the trusty racism deflection is shortly to follow if Biden’s initiative yields something damning.
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Post by timholycross on May 28, 2021 17:18:30 GMT -5
I'm afraid we've crossed the line back into politics with the "origins of Covid" discussion.
Dean Wormer's warming up in the bullpen.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on May 28, 2021 18:35:18 GMT -5
If the Wuhan lab released the deadly virus (assuming one considers 3.5 million deaths as qualifying for the word ‘deadly’) it seems reasonable they (or their carrier) would be on the hook for that. .... It may seem reasonable to you, but there are major problems. 1.) Sovereign immunity: the sovereign cannot be sued without its consent. The draft House bill that would remove sovereign immunity for not releasing information attempts to get around this. IMO, this bill, if enacted, lacks historic precedent and probably wouldn't survive legal challenge. In this instance, there is no standard, and the defendant China is , in essence being asked to prove a negative. A hypothetical. France passes a law allowing its citizens to sue the government of the United States for deaths in the 9/11 attacks because the United States directly or indirectly financed Osama bin Laden's operations during the Soviet-Afghan War. I expect the reaction by most Americans to such a law would be an expletive-filled rant, boycotts of any fast food restaurant serving French fried, etc., etc. There are those who assert the United States did, and those who deny such. The United states would refuse to release classified information, so any law suit is in effect, a dead end. See: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden2.) Post-facto laws: laws created to punish or penalize after the fact. E.g., Congress passing a law that expanded the definition of treason to allow insurrectionists who stormed the Capitol, or those who incited or promoted the insurrectionists, to be tried for treason, and, if convicted, executed. 3.) Negligence: The great difficulty of demonstrating that the Wuhan lab knew, a priori, that the coronavirus was highly infectious, lethal, etc., and failed to take all necessary steps to prevent it from being accidentally released. (This assumes, of course, the virus originated in the Wuhan lab, which, at this point, is a huge assumption.) If, however, the virus was being 'weaponized' in the Wuhan lab, then the case for negligence is much, much stronger. However, even Sen. Cotton has backed off endorsing early claims that the virus was being produced as a bioweapon. _____________________ Finally, as a practical matter, China currently holds about $1.1 trillion of U.S. debt, only slightly behind Japan. The U.S. net trade deficit with China runs $340-400 billion a year. The Trump and now the Biden budgets are resulting in huge increases in government indebtedness. Who is going to buy this new debt? China, maybe? If the USG doesn't find ready buyers, it has to raise interest rates.
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