ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Apr 25, 2021 12:08:11 GMT -5
Here's another unanswered question. The shelf life of minor league franchises in Worcester averages a few years. While the Railers have an exceptionally strong owner, the pandemic hasn't made things easier so if the Railers tenure ends in Worcester would a segment of their fans gravitate to Hockey East at the DCU? I think the Railers owner would be as likely to scoop up a financially struggling AHL team and move it to Worcester as fold the ECHL Railers but you never know. HC's shelf life in Worcester has been a little longer at 178 years and counting. Very few people in Worcester care about Holy Cross anymore. Have you seen the crowds at Fitton, Hart Center, etc? There are very few unaffiliated people attending the games. This may be true, but it is clear that you have some kind of axe to grind. After all, you seem to be Worcester-based and care enough about HC athletics to post on this obscure, niche message board day, after day, after day. You’ve made it clear the College doesn’t hire you, so how do you know what the crowds look like? There’s only one answer, and that’s because you care at some level for whatever reason. We don’t need all of Worcester to care, but I bet we can get 4K people between students and residents to care like you do, especially if we’re competing against the Boston schools and other potential HE opponents.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Apr 25, 2021 12:20:56 GMT -5
BC's men's ice hockey expenses in 2018-19 were $4.5 million (lost $2 million on men's ice hockey).
Losing 2 million a year does not provide a sustainable model. If a one time anomaly it may be understandable. If it is an ongoing year to year factor, it is a difficult loss leader to accept. In business, the CFO or CEO, would be told by the board to either fix it to be profitable or eliminate that line of operations.
Providence College spends 4.7 million, ( wonder how much they loss), gets a financial downgraded by Forbes from a B to a C-, and cannot bring back baseball as a varsity sport. (Thought they would be flush with cash because they belong to “The Big East”).
Seems like Hockey East is an difficult proposition for a private college at the expense of having football and baseball.
The more the financial onion is pealed, I understand the hesitation by the administration. Maybe Hockey East should be the domain of state schools that can absorb the yearly loss.
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Post by thecrossisback on Apr 25, 2021 12:24:11 GMT -5
Here's another unanswered question. The shelf life of minor league franchises in Worcester averages a few years. While the Railers have an exceptionally strong owner, the pandemic hasn't made things easier so if the Railers tenure ends in Worcester would a segment of their fans gravitate to Hockey East at the DCU? I think the Railers owner would be as likely to scoop up a financially struggling AHL team and move it to Worcester as fold the ECHL Railers but you never know. HC's shelf life in Worcester has been a little longer at 178 years and counting. Very few people in Worcester care about Holy Cross anymore. Have you seen the crowds at Fitton, Hart Center, etc? There are very few unaffiliated people attending the games. Ok and other teams in the Northeast are just filled with fans. Put HC up against anybody for the size of the school. If fans don't care because of who the opponents are. That is a sorry excuse. HC football just won back to back championships. I don't care what the level is, it is not easy to win back to back championships. HC in hockey east would outdraw the Railers against the Boston Schools. The question then is where do you play Vermont and Maine? DCU would be too big. Not a good atmosphere. You can't compare fan bases with school that only have a few major teams. Providence where is their football and baseball fanbase. How about BU's?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2021 12:46:13 GMT -5
HE offers the only shot HC will ever have again to play in a highest level league in any sport. If it's offered, HC is accepting. Fact, not opinion. 100% Correct. Takes two to tango and I really don't believe, at this time, HC has any interest in pursuing HE. I'm sure Nate Pine did pursue it. I could be and hope I'm wrong. I had a conversation with someone very much in the know when NP was AD. This was in the fall of the year that HC had played two hockey games at the DCU. One game was played on Parents Weekend, and there was very good attendance from HC, as parents dragged their kids, and/or vice versa. The second game, with no parents around, had very poor HC attendance. The athletic department had arranged for free bus service between the DCU and the college; the buses went unused. When I asked why, the reply was 'The students were much more interested in partying.' There was an appreciation by the AD that HE membership would increase the costs of hockey substantially. But the AD also was faced with the prospect of selling the added cost of membership to the BoT, with no assurance that the students cared enough about HE membership to attend games at the DCU. The conundrum was/is HC students will attend games on-campus; and appear not to be much interested in attending games at the DCU. HC winds up paying more to play games at a rented rink that students don't go to. So what's the pitch to the BoT to get them to buy into such a proposition? Get them all drunk on Park Smith's finest vintages beforehand?
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 13:34:51 GMT -5
BC's men's ice hockey expenses in 2018-19 were $4.5 million (lost $2 million on men's ice hockey). Losing 2 million a year does not provide a sustainable model. If a one time anomaly it may be understandable. If it is an ongoing year to year factor, it is a difficult loss leader to accept. In business, the CFO or CEO, would be told by the board to either fix it to be profitable or eliminate that line of operations. Providence College spends 4.7 million, ( wonder how much they loss), gets a financial downgraded by Forbes from a B to a C-, and cannot bring back baseball as a varsity sport. (Thought they would be flush with cash because they belong to “The Big East”). Seems like Hockey East is an difficult proposition for a private college at the expense of having football and baseball. The more the financial onion is pealed, I understand the hesitation by the administration. Maybe Hockey East should be the domain of state schools that can absorb the yearly loss. I really don’t know whether HE would be a good move for HC or not. As a sports fan, I’d love to see it but that doesn’t make it right for the College. That said, hockey is always going to “lose” money if you just look at direct revenues and subtract the costs. The very difficult question we’d need to answer is whether that direct loss is made up for in other ways (donations, name recognition in certain parts of the country, applications, alumni engagement, student experience, etc). Figuring that out is hard and quite subjective.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 13:49:40 GMT -5
100% Correct. Takes two to tango and I really don't believe, at this time, HC has any interest in pursuing HE. I'm sure Nate Pine did pursue it. I could be and hope I'm wrong. I had a conversation with someone very much in the know when NP was AD. This was in the fall of the year that HC had played two hockey games at the DCU. One game was played on Parents Weekend, and there was very good attendance from HC, as parents dragged their kids, and/or vice versa. The second game, with no parents around, had very poor HC attendance. The athletic department had arranged for free bus service between the DCU and the college; the buses went unused. When I asked why, the reply was 'The students were much more interested in partying.' There was an appreciation by the AD that HE membership would increase the costs of hockey substantially. But the AD also was faced with the prospect of selling the added cost of membership to the BoT, with no assurance that the students cared enough about HE membership to attend games at the DCU. The conundrum was/is HC students will attend games on-campus; and appear not to be much interested in attending games at the DCU. HC winds up paying more to play games at a rented rink that students don't go to. So what's the pitch to the BoT to get them to buy into such a proposition? Get them all drunk on Park Smith's finest vintages beforehand? The family weekend game was 10/22/16 vs BC. Announced attendance was 3884. The weekend before that, we played Providence before an announced 2142. I went to that game and it was pretty empty and dead. HC would up beating #11 Providence in OT so that was fun for those of us who did go. We lost 6-1 to BC so those who went probably weren’t that happy. While I think we’d draw better as a HE team with HE talent and hopefully more buzz on campus about hockey, I generally agree that HE played at the DCU would not be particularly successful in the long term. If we ever get in and have to play there for a few years, so be it. But I’d worry about a cavernous DCU a few miles from campus as our home rink. Unless we became really good in which case we could play anywhere and it would work.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Apr 25, 2021 15:06:25 GMT -5
I had a conversation with someone very much in the know when NP was AD. This was in the fall of the year that HC had played two hockey games at the DCU. One game was played on Parents Weekend, and there was very good attendance from HC, as parents dragged their kids, and/or vice versa. The second game, with no parents around, had very poor HC attendance. The athletic department had arranged for free bus service between the DCU and the college; the buses went unused. When I asked why, the reply was 'The students were much more interested in partying.' There was an appreciation by the AD that HE membership would increase the costs of hockey substantially. But the AD also was faced with the prospect of selling the added cost of membership to the BoT, with no assurance that the students cared enough about HE membership to attend games at the DCU. The conundrum was/is HC students will attend games on-campus; and appear not to be much interested in attending games at the DCU. HC winds up paying more to play games at a rented rink that students don't go to. So what's the pitch to the BoT to get them to buy into such a proposition? Get them all drunk on Park Smith's finest vintages beforehand? The family weekend game was 10/22/16 vs BC. Announced attendance was 3884. The weekend before that, we played Providence before an announced 2142. I went to that game and it was pretty empty and dead. HC would up beating #11 Providence in OT so that was fun for those of us who did go. We lost 6-1 to BC so those who went probably weren’t that happy. While I think we’d draw better as a HE team with HE talent and hopefully more buzz on campus about hockey, I generally agree that HE played at the DCU would not be particularly successful in the long term. If we ever get in and have to play there for a few years, so be it. But I’d worry about a cavernous DCU a few miles from campus as our home rink. Unless we became really good in which case we could play anywhere and it would work. That sounds like the pair of games that was being referenced. The conversation I had was on a Thursday or Friday before a Holy Cross football game, so the HC's party's frustration was freshly formed.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 25, 2021 15:15:04 GMT -5
Unless an NHL team moves back to Hartford. Just sayin'.😋
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 25, 2021 15:25:26 GMT -5
Very few people in Worcester care about Holy Cross anymore. Have you seen the crowds at Fitton, Hart Center, etc? There are very few unaffiliated people attending the games. This may be true, but it is clear that you have some kind of axe to grind. After all, you seem to be Worcester-based and care enough about HC athletics to post on this obscure, niche message board day, after day, after day. You’ve made it clear the College doesn’t hire you, so how do you know what the crowds look like? There’s only one answer, and that’s because you care at some level for whatever reason. We don’t need all of Worcester to care, but I bet we can get 4K people between students and residents to care like you do, especially if we’re competing against the Boston schools and other potential HE opponents. I think he gets hired by other schools who play at HC. He has much industry knowledge from working in the field and I've learned a lot from his posts. He has up to date info on the Athletic Facilities arms race among regional colleges and universities.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 25, 2021 15:35:16 GMT -5
This may be true, but it is clear that you have some kind of axe to grind. After all, you seem to be Worcester-based and care enough about HC athletics to post on this obscure, niche message board day, after day, after day. You’ve made it clear the College doesn’t hire you, so how do you know what the crowds look like? There’s only one answer, and that’s because you care at some level for whatever reason. We don’t need all of Worcester to care, but I bet we can get 4K people between students and residents to care like you do, especially if we’re competing against the Boston schools and other potential HE opponents. I think he gets hired by other schools who play at HC. He has much industry knowledge from working in the field and I've learned a lot from his posts. He has up to date info on the Athletic Facilities arms race among regional colleges and universities. Yes. Just keep in mind he hates HC so read his posts through that lens.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 25, 2021 15:45:39 GMT -5
I don't recall him starting out that way so let's hope it's cyclical. I have a buddy who is a self employed contractor and his highest praise for someone who makes a go of his own business is: "He's a wildcatter," so Mr. Foley, by making a living as an independent in college sports through a pandemic you are a true wildcatter. Now turn that frown upside down and parse out an occasional compliment to HC when you can please.
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 147
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Post by aaa8316 on Apr 25, 2021 20:45:57 GMT -5
Fascinating that this forum comes alive again in the last 2 days with Hockey East debates, all while we're in the middle of a Head Coaching hire after the worst 7 years in the Division 1 era.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 26, 2021 10:55:58 GMT -5
Fascinating that this forum comes alive again in the last 2 days with Hockey East debates, all while we're in the middle of a Head Coaching hire after the worst 7 years in the Division 1 era. There isn’t a ton of hockey interest here generally. On top of that, there are only so many ways for those of us who follow the hockey program to write that we’re terrible, the school needs to make more of an investment and Berard isn’t getting it done.
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Post by rgs318 on Apr 26, 2021 10:58:47 GMT -5
Berard is clearly not "getting it done" since he resigned. Just how important hockey is to HC may be seen in how long it takes to fill the vacant head coach position.
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 147
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Post by aaa8316 on Apr 26, 2021 14:57:36 GMT -5
Berard is clearly not "getting it done" since he resigned. Just how important hockey is to HC may be seen in how long it takes to fill the vacant head coach position. It's already taken 3 weeks longer than it should have. Easiest hire in the history of HC Athletics.
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Post by HC92 on Apr 26, 2021 22:06:09 GMT -5
Berard is clearly not "getting it done" since he resigned. Just how important hockey is to HC may be seen in how long it takes to fill the vacant head coach position. It's already taken 3 weeks longer than it should have. Easiest hire in the history of HC Athletics. Maybe they’re working through the details of HC’s renewed commitment to men’s hockey.
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Post by longsuffering on Apr 27, 2021 0:15:14 GMT -5
Nah, they repainted the lines last summer.
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 29, 2021 22:56:08 GMT -5
From Mike McMahon's site,
"HEA commissioner Steve Metcalf said that more than 100 games will be broadcast on NESN this year. Metcalf also said that only a handful of players are not vaccinated against COVID-19 due to medical exemptions. Additionally, he said that a 12th team for the league is “not something that is imminent.”"
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 30, 2021 8:41:18 GMT -5
This dopey "dance" has now officially become boring to me. I don't care anymore whether HC goes to Hockey East for men or not.
Wake me up if it ever happens.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 30, 2021 10:21:18 GMT -5
Right now we play H.E. teams in OOC games and pocket a million or two* by playing league games in the AHA instead of H.E.
If we want more games against high level opponents we can get them by qualifying for the NCAA tournament.
We can't really go from losing to AIC to beating BC. We have to consistently win in the AHA before moving up or it will be a lose/lose proposition. Lose more money and lose more institutional prestige by being a doormat in a higher profile league with more media coverage.
Since there is very little media coverage of Chemistry Labs and Sociology lectures, consistent losing in sports is net negative exposure for a college, even if it's on a subliminal basis, imo.
*From memory of Phreek posts.
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Post by bigfan on Sept 30, 2021 10:52:58 GMT -5
Winning or losing to BC is better than losing to AIC. Being a doormat in a higher profile league is much better than playing AIC or Bentley.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 30, 2021 11:34:49 GMT -5
Winning or losing to BC is better than losing to AIC. Being a doormat in a higher profile league is much better than playing AIC or Bentley. I respect that point of view. I'm thinking it does less damage to lose to AIC than BC but that's hard to measure and hard to measure whether the path to winning is easier through the AHA or H.E. The only sure variable is excellent coaching helps in any league.
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Post by cruskater31 on Sept 30, 2021 11:38:55 GMT -5
UMass Amherst has flirted with good seasons in the past, but seemed to have only flash in the pan success as members of Hockey East (in 2005-2006, freshman Jon Quick managed to have a .920 save percentage on a mediocre team, then led the Minutemen to the NCAA Regional Finals the next year). Their turnaround as well as Mark Dennehy's Merrimack team that experienced somewhat sustained success in the early 2010's is an inspiration. Each year the HC women seem to improve a bit as better recruits come in, style of play adjusts to competition, etc. I would rather be a doormat in Hockey East for a few years but show gradual improvement. We seem to lose out on similar recruits (guys who might be a 2nd or 3rd line player for us choose Merrimack to be a 4th liner or a scratch) and have no shot at the best players. Liam Connors, a small but shifty forward capable of putting up good assist numbers and probably some goal numbers, flipped his commitment from BU to Holy Cross (probably something to do with the covid extra years) but it seems rare to have some decomitt from a HEA school and go to AHA.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Sept 30, 2021 11:39:28 GMT -5
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here; just a matter of personal preference. With basketball, I would much rather have the HC basketball experience from 1995 on than Fordham's experience in the A-10. But that's just me
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 30, 2021 14:52:39 GMT -5
I don't think there's a right or wrong answer here; just a matter of personal preference. With basketball, I would much rather have the HC basketball experience from 1995 on than Fordham's experience in the A-10. But that's just me Agree Dave. I picked my monicker of longsuffering on a whim when I signed up but it was from a passing thought about the perennial overall losing at HC. I figured the name might already be taken but I have been pleased to encounter a great group of loyal and optimistic fans. I'm looking forward to Coach Riga building a winning program. Maybe it's because he's a local guy, but I think he gets HC and the local area. Getting hockey into the DCU and FB into Polar this October is great for HC sports. If the WooSox radio crew can do a few HC FB, BB and hockey games on their station (98.9) now that baseball has wrapped up, that would be good, also. The advertisers are in place and it's easier to do additional business with an existing customer than create a new one. I also hope the PL arrangement with ESPN+ has not eliminated telecasts of HC games on the Worcester area Spectrum channel. I am unclear if that is why there are no FB games being televised on that channel which has way more subscribers locally than ESPN+.
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