|
Post by thecrossisback on May 6, 2021 19:01:53 GMT -5
Another question. What was the reasons that Holy Cross was able to draw large crowds in the late 1980's? 1986 and 1987?
Crowds that they had not drawn in decades?
|
|
|
Post by efg72 on May 6, 2021 19:21:37 GMT -5
Giving the community a winning program- works all the time
While we have a commitment to the school community, I believe that extends to the Worcester area
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on May 6, 2021 20:06:15 GMT -5
Another question. What was the reasons that Holy Cross was able to draw large crowds in the late 1980's? 1986 and 1987? Crowds that they had not drawn in decades? Early 80s you would be correct. BC games, of course; one Colgate game, one or two Umass games, one or two Harvard games; very good crowds. Late 80s, not really. Once Gordie left, the home crowds were not impressive at all. And Duff only lost 4 games from 88-91. Attributed at the time to unattractive opponents; which on the whole was accurate.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 6, 2021 20:15:26 GMT -5
Another question. What was the reasons that Holy Cross was able to draw large crowds in the late 1980's? 1986 and 1987? Crowds that they had not drawn in decades? Early 80s you would be correct. BC games, of course; one Colgate game, one or two Umass games, one or two Harvard games; very good crowds. Late 80s, not really. Once Gordie left, the home crowds were not impressive at all. And Duff only lost 4 games from 88-91. Attributed at the time to unattractive opponents; which on the whole was accurate. Plus the culture of going to games in was much better in 1980's then now. "I know there are a lot more things for young parents to do on Saturdays than there were 20 years ago, and I don't think that those people and that demographic is ever going to come back to Yale Bowl like they used to. Again it goes back to the opponents. Which is the worst excuse in my opinion but it is what everybody goes by.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on May 6, 2021 21:21:59 GMT -5
Opponents is a bag part no doubt....but there are a host of issues for suppressed attendance at Fitton (and in most college stadia) in 2021 as opposed to 1981, 1991 etc. We've gone ovah this here but to review: availability of games on TV/online now, societal change for parents on weekends, football not seen as the 'highlight' of the weekend for many students, alums, non-alums, somewhat of a crackdown on the 'party culture' for tailgating and I'm sure I'm leaving other reasons out.
We often look back at attendance at games at Fitton through purple-tinted glasses too. As newtim pointed out, even during the heralded decade of the 80s, we had a fair amount of games were we barely broke (or didn't on some occasions) 10K. Wiki has the attendance #s if you type in 'Holy Cross football 19XX.' This is true for the 1960s and 1970s too.
I think with a winning program moving forward, some interesting opponents here and there, a more fan friendly atmosphere etc etc we can average in the 10-12K range most years. I highly doubt we'll evah see another game at Fitton top 20K though for the reasons stated above.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 6, 2021 22:00:12 GMT -5
HC was well engaged with the local community 35 years ago and further back as well. Games were "events" that many in the city looked forward to going to. The athletic administration has been advised for years to re-engage the locals to attract younger fans, which they have largely ignored. This is partly because because there are no people who understand Worcester's pulse left on the staff. Most are from out of the area and several live out of state. This makes it hard grasp what makes the community tick.
Take a look around the stands. The silver manes and faded purple sweaters that make up the most regular & loyal set tells you everything you need to know. What happens when they're gone and a new fan base hasn't been cultivated?
This being said, FB is in the best position to garner new fans. Another bad season and MBB is in big trouble.
|
|
|
Post by longsuffering on May 6, 2021 23:25:05 GMT -5
Another question. What was the reasons that Holy Cross was able to draw large crowds in the late 1980's? 1986 and 1987? Crowds that they had not drawn in decades? One reason not mentioned yet was SID Greg Burke's superlative effort to sell the Gordie Lockbaum throwback two-way player story during those two seasons. That not only resonated with Heisman Trophy voters but with locals as well.
|
|
|
Post by KY Crusader 75 on May 7, 2021 0:01:20 GMT -5
I believe a big factor now is the proliferation of sports program for children. I think more kids are involved with school, club, and the offshoot, "travel teams" for more sports. I'll bet there are exponentially more kids playing soccer today than 30-40 years ago and the same certainly holds true for Lacrosse. Instead of taking the kids to see a college football game Dad is taking them to practice or to a game.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on May 7, 2021 7:20:02 GMT -5
I think ACTP nailed it when he said that many years ago, HC games were events. People had them circled on the calendar. Since we got out of the entertainment business back in the Middle Ages, games aren’t even on the calendar.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on May 7, 2021 7:51:31 GMT -5
I believe a big factor now is the proliferation of sports program for children. I think more kids are involved with school, club, and the offshoot, "travel teams" for more sports. I'll bet there are exponentially more kids playing soccer today than 30-40 years ago and the same certainly holds true for Lacrosse. Instead of taking the kids to see a college football game Dad is taking them to practice or to a game. w/o getting off on the lights tangent (long term solution), always thought that the September games should start as late in the afternoon as possible, 3 perhaps.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on May 7, 2021 7:57:44 GMT -5
I recall seeing an article in the NY Times in which some people involved with Yale football were expressing displeasure over the change, worried what it would men for the team's status and attendance. One person what quoted as saying: "We have to get back into 1-A." (Recall that Yale had upset Navy only a few years before.) There was a big dropoff in the quality of Ivy play starting around that time. Given that the Ivies were not going to play in any bowl game or playoff, it's hard to pinpoint that as the cause. Certainly the Yale team HC came close to beating in 1981 wasn't equaled in that league for quite some time. Absolutely right. Ivy football was not very good in the 1990's minus a couple of Jay Fielder-led Dartmouth squads. In the early 2000's, consistently VERY GOOD Harvard and Penn teams started to put Ivy football back on the map. Starting in late 2000's / early 2010's, Yale, Princeton and Dartmouth really started to ramp it up and now the Ivy is a legit Top 5 or 6 conference in FCS. Even Columbia is decent now under Bagnoli. As far as scheduling, the only real difference since they got knocked down to I-AA is that the Ivies play the service academies less often. Without looking it up, I'm sure attendance has gradually declined over the last 30 years just like anywhere else at our level in the Northeast. I went to a Dartmouth-Princeton game at Princeton in 1996 I believe it was and seem to recall stadium being fairly full. It was last game at the "old" Princeton Stadium I believe. And Dartmouth clinched Ivy title and undefeated season that day.
|
|
|
Post by nycrusader2010 on May 7, 2021 8:02:36 GMT -5
HC was well engaged with the local community 35 years ago and further back as well. Games were "events" that many in the city looked forward to going to. The athletic administration has been advised for years to re-engage the locals to attract younger fans, which they have largely ignored. This is partly because because there are no people who understand Worcester's pulse left on the staff. Most are from out of the area and several live out of state. This makes it hard grasp what makes the community tick. Take a look around the stands. The silver manes and faded purple sweaters that make up the most regular & loyal set tells you everything you need to know. What happens when they're gone and a new fan base hasn't been cultivated?
This being said, FB is in the best position to garner new fans. Another bad season and MBB is in big trouble.It's sad but unless we re-engage the local community, HC is going to have the fan base of Sacred Heart in 15 years. Football is the hot ticket now (HC-Georgetown almost outdrew UMASS-BYU last Saturday of 2019). But in long run, I think that the basketball and hockey programs are the ones we really need to market to the community. Even when I was in school from 2006-2010, well after our de-emphasis of athletics, you could tell the difference in non-alum local engagement versus now.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on May 7, 2021 9:04:00 GMT -5
All you have to do is take a look at the end zone section next fall, assuming we are back to normal. Actually the look will be the same in either case. Empty. That is where the non-alum locals used to sit back in the day.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 7, 2021 10:57:09 GMT -5
All you have to do is take a look at the end zone section next fall, assuming we are back to normal. Actually the look will be the same in either case. Empty. That is where the non-alum locals used to sit back in the day. It's where me and my friends (non alums sit) Attachments:
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 7, 2021 13:28:05 GMT -5
Ivy League to Resume Athletics Competition in Fall, Presidents Announce www.thecrimson.com/article/2021/5/7/ivy-presidents-anticipate-athletics-return/YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Who is that 11th game going to be against? Merrimack is open after they open with St Anselm. I hope it is somebody else. Central Connecticut? We win the league 2 years in a row and finish with 3 out of the last 4 games on the road.
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 12, 2021 8:33:59 GMT -5
Umass in 2021 plays Rhode Island Maine Uconn BC Army They are an FBS team. That is an FCS schedule. Its time Umass football you can't live off your NCAA hockey championship. Drop down to FCS.
|
|
|
Post by hc87 on May 12, 2021 12:18:35 GMT -5
Umass in 2021 plays Rhode Island Maine Uconn BC Army They are an FBS team. That is an FCS schedule. Its time Umass football you can't live off your NCAA hockey championship. Drop down to FCS. That is actually a HC schedule in the 70s and 80s....
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 12, 2021 13:10:04 GMT -5
Yankee conference schedule.
|
|
|
Post by hcpride on May 12, 2021 13:52:17 GMT -5
To be fair they do also play Pitt, Florida State, Eastern Michigan, Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Toledo...
|
|
|
Post by thecrossisback on May 12, 2021 15:23:19 GMT -5
To be fair they do also play Pitt, Florida State, Eastern Michigan, Liberty, Coastal Carolina, Toledo... That has to be the worst FBS schedule ever. 3 Power Five teams . BC, Pitt and Florida state. Liberty and Coastal is alright. Known wonder why nobody likes Umass football.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 12, 2021 16:05:45 GMT -5
Uh - when you're an indy not named ND, Army, or BYU, and also the worst 1A squad in the country, with zero shot of ever getting a conference invite, you are forced to play whoever you can to fill out a sked.
There are two choices: play total stiffs/1AA's who have an opening, need a game, and pray you don't get embarrassed, or get paid to get your ass kicked.
UMess' problems can be squarely attributed to the death of BE football, and failing to read the tea leaves correctly when made the jump. Drew well when they played in the CAA, and were a solid 1AA, with a title and runner-up finish since '98.
Conn is in the same situation, though they killed their already atrocious FB program in an effort to save the hoops programs, so at least something improved on the school's end.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on May 12, 2021 16:25:15 GMT -5
So they play 2 FCS schools and the standard for a BCS team is one (IIRC one will count towards the holy grail of "bowl eligibility" and one won't).
For 2021 I don't see that being a big deal. Things are in such disarray there overall they're lucky to still have a sports program.
|
|
|
Post by A Clock Tower Purple on May 12, 2021 17:09:11 GMT -5
This is one of the best UMess skeds in years. Remarkable job by Bamford getting the most out it, and it's not even close to "the worst FBS schedule ever" as someone above asserts.
|
|
|
Post by gks on May 12, 2021 19:59:36 GMT -5
UMass and UConn should just schedule each other in the opener and season-ender. Build some hate and get a decent rivalry going.
|
|
|
Post by Chu Chu on May 12, 2021 22:12:06 GMT -5
This was fun to read, and very prescient about most things, but they got this one wrong: "No recruiter with a lick of sense would try to convince a youngster that playing at, say, Boise State, is the same as playing at Michigan State. " That is certainly no longer true!
|
|