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Post by efg72 on Jun 7, 2021 20:06:32 GMT -5
It seems the recruiting has been better but I wouldn’t use the term great to describe it. Great at our level would be multiple 3 star recruits in the mix and I don’t think Coach Nelson and staff have gotten anyone rated that high. Do you know what makes a player a 3 star recruit? If you would have asked Tommy K he could give you a clear answer based on talent we all would understand and say absolutely right! The rest of the services appear to base the difference between a 2-3 and even 3+ Based on who else is offering. The 4s and 5 stars are easy to evaluate. There is a herd mentality in recruiting and we see that in football and basketball each and every year. Offers are made without evaluating completely based on other schools involved. That said, and hoops, dharry and many others might disagree, but most every other evaluation I have seen over the past 45 years looks at offensive numbers delivered against quality talent/teams that have big time players, size for the position, quickness, strength and speed. Most of it is based on AAU and camp performances and validated by high school performance. In football i think of foot speed strength, quickness, lateral movement and acceleration. That might start a conversation among the more knowledgeable? But I don't place much weight on the difference between a 2-3 star evaluation, as those players, for the most part aren't significantly different and many of the 2s grow and develop into better players-especially the big in hoops, and lineman on the gridiron
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Jun 7, 2021 20:15:41 GMT -5
Do you know what makes a player a 3 star recruit? If you would have asked Tommy K he could give you a clear answer based on talent we all would understand and say absolutely right! The rest of the services appear to base the difference between a 2-3 and even 3+ Based on who else is offering. The 4s and 5 stars are easy to evaluate. There is a herd mentality in recruiting and we see that in football and basketball each and every year. Offers are made without evaluating completely based on other schools involved. That said, and hoops, dharry and many others might disagree, but most every other evaluation I have seen over the past 45 years looks at offensive numbers delivered against quality talent/teams that have big time players, size for the position, quickness, strength and speed. Most of it is based on AAU and camp performances and validated by high school performance. In football i think of foot speed strength, quickness, lateral movement and acceleration. That might start a conversation among the more knowledgeable? But I don't place much weight on the difference between a 2-3 star evaluation, as those players, for the most part aren't significantly different and many of the 2s grow and develop into better players-especially the big in hoops, and lineman on the gridiron Exactly!
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Post by HC92 on Jun 7, 2021 21:00:57 GMT -5
Malcolm Miller had the same number of stars as me. He played in the NBA and has a ring. Don’t care about stars. Some guys will be stars at HC and some guys won’t. Hoping we have several who will on the current roster.
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Jun 7, 2021 21:19:11 GMT -5
Malcolm Miller had the same number of stars as me. He played in the NBA and has a ring. Don’t care about stars. Some guys will be stars at HC and some guys won’t. Hoping we have several who will on the current roster. Perfect example!
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Post by efg72 on Jun 7, 2021 22:18:15 GMT -5
Here are a few examples from the last team I coached
I had a great kid who was rated a 2 and played a year at Rochester transferred to Georgetown and was a co-captain his senior year
I had a 3+ that played for Randolph Macon, was a D3 AA for Nate Davis
A 4- who played at Columbia for Joe Jones and didn't do much until he played in Europe
A 3+ offered by Davidson, Richmond and a few PL teams, was injured his senior year and never played
A 3 who went to W&L after turning down Harvard and Yale
So I guess numbers/ratings help but they are anything but scientific and a guarantee for success or even something less
Many 2s could be 3s, many 3s could be 2s and in the end we put too much emphasis on ratings and not enough on the ability of a college coaching staff to teach and develop the talent once it arrives on campus. That might explain some of the play and results of the last decade.
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Jun 8, 2021 13:00:56 GMT -5
Here are a few examples from the last team I coached I had a great kid who was rated a 2 and played a year at Rochester transferred to Georgetown and was a co-captain his senior year I had a 3+ that played for Randolph Macon, was a D3 AA for Nate Davis A 4- who played at Columbia for Joe Jones and didn't do much until he played in Europe A 3+ offered by Davidson, Richmond and a few PL teams, was injured his senior year and never played A 3 who went to W&L after turning down Harvard and Yale So I guess numbers/ratings help but they are anything but scientific and a guarantee for success or even something less Many 2s could be 3s, many 3s could be 2s and in the end we put too much emphasis on ratings and not enough on the ability of a college coaching staff to teach and develop the talent once it arrives on campus. That might explain some of the play and results of the last decade. It absolutely explains it! So many stories out there that confirms your points.
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jun 9, 2021 15:12:01 GMT -5
Another example--Jeremy Lin. I don't think he had a single D-1 scholarship offer out of HS. Donahue, then at Cornell, thought he would be a pretty good D-3 player. Yet he had a nice run in the NBA.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jun 9, 2021 15:39:17 GMT -5
I think, like many other matters, it's a matter of probabilities. Here's one way of looking at it
4,000 D-1 Basketball players
40= Top 1% = great players, some All-America, many drafted by NBC, everyone all-conference 360= rest of top 10%--outstanding players, starters or could start on Power 5 team 800= very good players-strong contributors in power 5 or stars in "mid-majors" 800= better than average 800= below average but not horrible 800= don't play or contribute a lot 400= bottom 10% not really capable of contributing to D-1 program
So, bear with me, if the percentages of these players by my goofy group are 1%/9%/20%/20%/20%/20%/10% the Five star players probably may up breaking out as follows 15%/40%/35%/9%/1%/0%/0%. So, there is no guarantee that they'll be huge stars, but their odds are a heck of a lot better than lower ranked players. Unranked players (just trying to illustrate the thinking) might end up breaking out as 0%/1%/4%/10%/35%/30%/20%
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Post by efg72 on Jun 9, 2021 15:42:28 GMT -5
which supports the point that ratings are not an exact science
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Post by purplehaze on Jun 9, 2021 15:43:42 GMT -5
Clicking on this thread and having a tough time finding anything about the posted topic
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Post by hchoops on Jun 9, 2021 16:41:17 GMT -5
The number of stars are especially unreliable now since there was no sneaker circuit last year and many players had no high school season,
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2021 18:53:19 GMT -5
Per ADMB. One ACC game, two A-10 games Two Div-II games. Siena. Fairfield. The Acc opponent and one of A-10 opponents are in the same city. Not hard to guess who they are.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 9, 2021 19:18:49 GMT -5
2 D2 games Why ?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2021 19:32:06 GMT -5
One year only, for game experience. I am assuming they are D-II, one could be Div III. Also probably means they couldn't find a Div I opponent. Schedule will be out in several weeks.
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Post by hchoops on Jun 9, 2021 19:36:01 GMT -5
Game experience ?? Meaning what ?
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 9, 2021 19:46:39 GMT -5
schedule out in several weeks? Might we expect to see it before the season starts???
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2021 19:49:40 GMT -5
Game experience ?? Meaning what ? That was ADMB's explanation. I assume they had a scheduling hole, and either could sit out the date, or find an opponent. ------------------- For the icebreaker tournament that HC is hosting, the three teams coming to the Hart originally included Notre Dame. Notre Dame dropped post-COVID, and they had to get a special exemption to bring in Northeastern. Icebreakers can't include more than one opponent from the same conference. ADMB said in effect, 'Let's not kill kid ourselves. These teams are only playing at the Hart because they want the two extra games per season allowed under Icebreaker rules. They don't like HC's rink because the dimensions of the ice sheet are not to their liking.' (HC expanding the rink might change the ice sheet.)
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2021 19:50:47 GMT -5
schedule out in several weeks? Might we expect to see it before the season starts??? That was what ADMB said.
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Post by efg72 on Jun 9, 2021 19:55:37 GMT -5
Ryan said season tickets on sale in July so my guess is “in a few weeks” makes sense
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 9, 2021 19:57:34 GMT -5
Per ADMB. One ACC game, two A-10 games Two Div-II games. Siena. Fairfield. The Acc opponent and one of A-10 opponents are in the same city. Not hard to guess who they are. From the description, sounds like two of opponents are from western PA. Will both game take place in the Steel City? Presuming, I am correct, HC will be playing Pittsburgh and Duquesne next year?
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Post by princetoncrusader on Jun 9, 2021 20:16:47 GMT -5
I believe he said two A-10 opponents were both in the same city. So that has to be Philadelphia.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 9, 2021 20:43:06 GMT -5
I believe he said two A-10 opponents were both in the same city. So that has to be Philadelphia. I think you and I heard differently.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 9, 2021 20:48:06 GMT -5
schedule out in several weeks? Might we expect to see it before the season starts??? That was what ADMB said. I believed you, I just could not believe that we are continuing our tradition of treating our schedile like a state secret...holding it "under cover" well into the academic year.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 9, 2021 20:49:04 GMT -5
So it's either LaSalle & St. Joe's and some unnamed ACC team ....or Duquesne, Pitt and some unnamed A10 team.
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Post by gerry on Jun 10, 2021 5:05:29 GMT -5
VCU/Richmond reside in the same city as well.
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