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Post by football44 on Jul 31, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -5
Sorry hchoops I meant to address dharry. Coach Chesney knows what he’s doing. When you have what you need on the roster you have the luxury of picking and choosing who you want and need. Some of these kids are roster back ups. Trust Coach Chesney. He’s a master recruiter.
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Post by hchoops on Jul 31, 2021 9:37:39 GMT -5
I trust in Chesney and his staff. they have a strong, if relatively short, recruiting history. While this is true for 21 of the 22 positions on the field, their results have been sub-par at the most important position in football today - QB. I think that Sluka is far from sub-par, especially for a freshman.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jul 31, 2021 9:53:35 GMT -5
While this is true for 21 of the 22 positions on the field, their results have been sub-par at the most important position in football today - QB. I think that Sluka is far from sub-par, especially for a freshman. In two full games, he is 18-32 for 155 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. He was very impressive as a runner, but his most productive game came when the opponent had no film on him and he came off the bench. Certainly wayyy too small of a sample size to tell, but he will need to be developed better than the other QBs who have played under Chesney. With the amount of scholarship capital that we have dedicated to the WR position (assuming the impressive recruits are on full or near full scholarships), we are only going to get to the next level if we have a QB who can throw the ball. As we saw against SDSU, we are never going to be a program that can ground and pound against superior opponents. — As a point of comparison, Dom Randolph’s numbers in his first two starts: 49-66, 592 yards, 7 TDs, 3 INTs *This was midway through his soph year **This is certainly setting the bar very high, but shouldn’t the bar be set high given the amount of praise that Chesney has received?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 31, 2021 10:04:52 GMT -5
I trust in Chesney and his staff. they have a strong, if relatively short, recruiting history. While this is true for 21 of the 22 positions on the field, their results have been sub-par at the most important position in football today - QB. Taking a QB this early in the class with only one other offer from Valpo is another questionable move at that position. Are you going to go after Chesney now?
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jul 31, 2021 10:23:03 GMT -5
You can't bring a player to Worcester in leg irons. There are only so many top level high school QB's (didn't we get one in Pesansky?) Hunter Helms would probably be HC's starting QB if he came but it's probably really hard for a kid who grew up in SC to turn down a chance to play at Clemson.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 31, 2021 11:53:32 GMT -5
I think that Sluka is far from sub-par, especially for a freshman. In two full games, he is 18-32 for 155 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. He was very impressive as a runner, but his most productive game came when the opponent had no film on him and he came off the bench. Certainly wayyy too small of a sample size to tell, but he will need to be developed better than the other QBs who have played under Chesney.With the amount of scholarship capital that we have dedicated to the WR position (assuming the impressive recruits are on full or near full scholarships), we are only going to get to the next level if we have a QB who can throw the ball. As we saw against SDSU, we are never going to be a program that can ground and pound against superior opponents. — As a point of comparison, Dom Randolph’s numbers in his first two starts: 49-66, 592 yards, 7 TDs, 3 INTs *This was midway through his soph year **This is certainly setting the bar very high, but shouldn’t the bar be set high given the amount of praise that Chesney has received?Are you really going to compare Sluka's performance as a true freshman playing against South Dakota State i(#93 in D-1) n his fourth game to that of Dom Randolph, as a sophomore, having been in the system for a year and a half and playing against #220 Fordham and #187 Brown? Let's see what Sluka can do with his shortened freshman year behind him but now with many more months of instruction and practice. I do see a theme developing, though
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jul 31, 2021 12:03:22 GMT -5
In two full games, he is 18-32 for 155 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT. He was very impressive as a runner, but his most productive game came when the opponent had no film on him and he came off the bench. Certainly wayyy too small of a sample size to tell, but he will need to be developed better than the other QBs who have played under Chesney.With the amount of scholarship capital that we have dedicated to the WR position (assuming the impressive recruits are on full or near full scholarships), we are only going to get to the next level if we have a QB who can throw the ball. As we saw against SDSU, we are never going to be a program that can ground and pound against superior opponents. — As a point of comparison, Dom Randolph’s numbers in his first two starts: 49-66, 592 yards, 7 TDs, 3 INTs *This was midway through his soph year **This is certainly setting the bar very high, but shouldn’t the bar be set high given the amount of praise that Chesney has received?Are you really going to compare Sluka's performance as a true freshman playing against South Dakota State i(#93 in D-1) n his fourth game to that of Dom Randolph, as a sophomore, having been in the system for a year and a half and playing against #220 Fordham and #187 Brown? Let's see what Sluka can do with his shortened freshman year behind him but now with many more months of instruction and practice. I do see a theme developing, though I am going off what I’ve seen from the QB position during Chesney years and that is below average (and miles below the elite pedestal that most around here already put hi on). Would love to hear if you have a different take on how it should be viewed as a positive that Degenhart was still the starter in Chesney’s third season and Year 4 is almost a total question mark. — And if you want another comparison, how about Peter Pujals? He was widely praised here, but I think he was an average 1-AA / slightly above average PL QB. First two games (five games into Frosh year): 57-87 635 6 TD Of course nothing is apples-to-apples, but the idea that Sluka is anything like a known commodity as a strong 1-AA starting QB at this point is pure purple optimism.
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Post by dharry13 on Jul 31, 2021 12:19:46 GMT -5
Bringbackcaro - you are right.
Football44 - I call them as I see them. If you get hurt by the fact that I'm not crazy about their first 3 recruits - well, that's on you.
I've given them credit if you read my post regarding their last 3 recruiting classes. I know in today's society it's all unicorns and rainbows and how dare I question this staff. I think black and white. Last 3 classes - excellent. I'm not impressed with their first 3 recruits in this class.
That doesn't mean the rest of this class won't be excellent. But I don't subscribe to the fact that because they've had a modicum of success that they are above criticism. They've won the conference two years in a row in what is one of the weakest in the nation.
Honestly - I like the direction we are headed. I just want to keep the foot on the gas pedal.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 31, 2021 15:25:25 GMT -5
Critics may want to get geared up now. Criticism is always better to deliver before recruits ever have a chance to actually show what they can do. That way, you can't be wrong immediately.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2021 16:37:45 GMT -5
Chesney has won without a franchise QB. The presumed football coaching G.O.A.T., Bill Belichick hasn't won without his Franchise QB.
Three QBs who weren't destined to be the next Chuckin' Charlie Maloy have moved on without controversy and we have a new batch for Coach Chesney and staff to develop. I suspect that Coach has gotten the most out of the QB position that could be had and am looking forward to what the staff can do with hopefully better raw talent.
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Post by efg72 on Jul 31, 2021 18:18:59 GMT -5
While this is true for 21 of the 22 positions on the field, their results have been sub-par at the most important position in football today - QB. I think that Sluka is far from sub-par, especially for a freshman. And while it is his role to lose we might have better options ahead or he is way better once he develops Either way I believe chesney will get the most out of the talent on the roster
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Post by mm67 on Jul 31, 2021 18:22:44 GMT -5
Not one snap from center in a game... Too early... relax. Don't get your under drawers tied up in a knot. As for me i'm looking forward to another kick-butt championship season on Mt. St. James.
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Post by matunuck on Jul 31, 2021 18:28:52 GMT -5
It’s an opinion board so we all don’t have to sing from the same hymn sheet — and hallelujah for that.
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Post by rgs318 on Jul 31, 2021 21:19:53 GMT -5
No decision (or evaluation) can ever be better than the information on which it is based. I guess that is easier BEFORE one actually has information about real things performance and "coachability". So nothing being posted here is necessarily accurate...and hallelujah for that.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Jul 31, 2021 21:51:31 GMT -5
Chesney has won without a franchise QB. The presumed football coaching G.O.A.T., Bill Belichick hasn't won without his Franchise QB. Three QBs who weren't destined to be the next Chuckin' Charlie Maloy have moved on without controversy and we have a new batch for Coach Chesney and staff to develop. I suspect that Coach has gotten the most out of the QB position that could be had and am looking forward to what the staff can do with hopefully better raw talent. — Key caveat: he has won IN THE PL without a QB. It’s time to start winning in OOC games against the next level of opponents and start doing more than being the last seed in the NCAA Tournament with a blow out first round game. Year 1: Eddie Scott — Transferred to Monmouth after one season (appears to be transferring again) Year 2: Chris Butash — Transferred after Soph year Matt Considine (Transfer from Wake Forest) — Transferred after 2nd year at HC Year 3: Matt Sluka — Appears to have had no other offers Marco Siderman — 1 other offer from FAU Year 4: Joe Pekansky - Offers from Marist and St Francis So we are now entering year 4 with 3 QBs on the roster, two Sophomores and one Freshman. None of whom had an impressive offer sheet*. This would be like Brett Nelson entering year 4 with Blake Verbeek as his starting Center. (*if you say offers don’t matter, you are forbidden from praising the staff for beating out other schools for top recruits)
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Post by dharry13 on Jul 31, 2021 22:12:23 GMT -5
Of course offers matter. When a number of other coaches believe in a kid then it’s a testament to the fact that a number of other staffs believe the kid is worthy of a full ride. It’s the best objective way to determine if a kid is going to be good.
Is it the end all be all - nope. And some kids slip through the cracks and are diamonds in the rough. And sometimes kids with many offers don’t hit. It’s not an exact science. But it’s the best way to determine if kids will succeed from our seat. Coaching certainly comes into play as well to determine that outcome.
Again - simply stating I’m not impressed with the lack of offers from these first 3 kids. They could be great. They could stink. Who knows. But talk about getting panties in a bunch - God forbid we question the staff in any way shape or form. Guys - they won the PL two years in a row and are 15-13 in 3 years. Let’s pump the brakes a little.
Again - I like the direction it’s headed in. But until they win a game or 2 in the playoffs I want more and more high end talent.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 31, 2021 23:41:47 GMT -5
Chesney has won without a franchise QB. The presumed football coaching G.O.A.T., Bill Belichick hasn't won without his Franchise QB. Three QBs who weren't destined to be the next Chuckin' Charlie Maloy have moved on without controversy and we have a new batch for Coach Chesney and staff to develop. I suspect that Coach has gotten the most out of the QB position that could be had and am looking forward to what the staff can do with hopefully better raw talent. — Key caveat: he has won IN THE PL without a QB. It’s time to start winning in OOC games against the next level of opponents and start doing more than being the last seed in the NCAA Tournament with a blow out first round game. Year 1: Eddie Scott — Transferred to Monmouth after one season (appears to be transferring again) Year 2: Chris Butash — Transferred after Soph year Matt Considine (Transfer from Wake Forest) — Transferred after 2nd year at HC Year 3: Matt Sluka — Appears to have had no other offers Marco Siderman — 1 other offer from FAU Year 4: Joe Pekansky - Offers from Marist and St Francis So we are now entering year 4 with 3 QBs on the roster, two Sophomores and one Freshman. None of whom had an impressive offer sheet*. This would be like Brett Nelson entering year 4 with Blake Verbeek as his starting Center. (*if you say offers don’t matter, you are forbidden from praising the staff for beating out other schools for top recruits)Comparing the basketball center with the football QB, BN recruited Rabinovich and BC recruited Sluka the same year. I'm rooting for both to dominate in the PL.
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Post by hchoops on Aug 1, 2021 6:38:20 GMT -5
Sluka led us to a PL championship as a freshman Verbeek did not
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Post by newfieguy74 on Aug 1, 2021 7:14:12 GMT -5
Verbeek, it turns out, was not a D1 basketball player. Sluka is a D1 football player. How good he is remains to be seen.
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Post by sader1970 on Aug 1, 2021 7:24:59 GMT -5
No, as it turns out, anyone who played on an HC basketball or football team was a D-1 athlete. They may have transferred to a lower division and maybe they really shouldn’t have been picked by our coaches to play at Holy Cross but that’s on the coaches that made those choices.
Let’s not diminish the student-athletes who played for the Crusaders and did their best.
Does anyone think this is unique to Holy Cross of students transferring to a D-2 or D-3 school?
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Post by HC92 on Aug 1, 2021 8:16:04 GMT -5
I trust in Chesney and his staff. they have a strong, if relatively short, recruiting history. While this is true for 21 of the 22 positions on the field, their results have been sub-par at the most important position in football today - QB. Taking a QB this early in the class with only one other offer from Valpo is another questionable move at that position. We have to remember that we lost Hunter Helms (Clemson) and Ridge Jacobs (South Florida) in the last two years fairly late in the recruiting process. Both provided verbals and later decommitted in the Fall of their senior seasons to take an FBS preferred walk on offer. Not a complete defense but it’s hard to keep recruiting another top level QB once you have a verbal from your target guy in a class. Whether we could have done more to keep them at HC or be more aware they were a flight risk, I have no idea. Helms’ dad certainly made no secret of the fact that they were continuing to look at some point before his official decommitment.
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Post by hc6774 on Aug 1, 2021 8:45:50 GMT -5
Of course offers matter. When a number of other coaches believe in a kid then it’s a testament to the fact that a number of other staffs believe the kid is worthy of a full ride. It’s the best objective way to determine if a kid is going to be good. Is it the end all be all - nope. And some kids slip through the cracks and are diamonds in the rough. And sometimes kids with many offers don’t hit. It’s not an exact science. But it’s the best way to determine if kids will succeed from our seat. Coaching certainly comes into play as well to determine that outcome. Again - simply stating I’m not impressed with the lack of offers from these first 3 kids. They could be great. They could stink. Who knows. But talk about getting panties in a bunch - God forbid we question the staff in any way shape or form. Guys - they won the PL two years in a row and are 15-13 in 3 years. Let’s pump the brakes a little. Again - I like the direction it’s headed in. But until they win a game or 2 in the playoffs I want more and more high end talent. The preseason poll suggests that coaches rate Chesney's roster development & game prep is better than Fordham recruiting. It doesn't tell us about the next level, however.
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Post by HC92 on Aug 1, 2021 8:50:11 GMT -5
Hoping we’ll see some creative game-planning with the QB position this year and with moving Sluka around a little on the field if we are using multiple QBs in a game (see Hill, Taysom).
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Aug 1, 2021 9:22:39 GMT -5
This is just so interesting. A number of posters once said that Chesney was not the right guy to coach Holy Cross because he came from a lower division and would not be able to recruit (1) D-1 players and (2) at a "high academic" institution. Now we are hearing, from at least one poster (and I don't know where he stood on Chesney pre-HC) that Chesney may be able to recruit for other positions but is not good at recruiting quarterbacks. It just defies logic to me. Recruiting is based on salesmanship--the coach's ability to sell the recruit on the institution, the athletic program, and on the coach and his staff. I'll offer an analogy, comparing football recruiting to selling cars: Chesney is the top salesman at the car dealership but he's just not good at selling convertibles. He's great with SUV's and pickup trucks, and sedans, but his record with convertibles in the last three years is sub-optimal. Until he starts selling more convertibles I don't care how many other cars he sells, he's not a good salesman.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Aug 1, 2021 10:13:43 GMT -5
This is just so interesting. A number of posters once said that Chesney was not the right guy to coach Holy Cross because he came from a lower division and would not be able to recruit (1) D-1 players and (2) at a "high academic" institution. Now we are hearing, from at least one poster (and I don't know where he stood on Chesney pre-HC) that Chesney may be able to recruit for other positions but is not good at recruiting quarterbacks. It just defies logic to me. Recruiting is based on salesmanship--the coach's ability to sell the recruit on the institution, the athletic program, and on the coach and his staff. I'll offer an analogy, comparing football recruiting to selling cars: Chesney is the top salesman at the car dealership but he's just not good at selling convertibles. He's great with SUV's and pickup trucks, and sedans, but his record with convertibles in the last three years is sub-optimal. Until he starts selling more convertibles I don't care how many other cars he sells, he's not a good salesman. A significant oversimplification of recruiting to think it’s only about salesmanship. A pitcher can throw 100 MPH on the black, so he’s a great pitcher, right? Doesn’t matter if he can’t throw a curveball, slider, change up, etc. Player evaluation and scholarship management (particularly at the 1-AA level and even more so in the PL) are at least equally, if not more, important to recruiting than salesmanship. Chesney has signed six QBs at HC. Three have transferred down a level (or more). To HC92’s point, Chesney has taken verbals from eight QBs at HC. Five have ended up elsewhere. It’s awesome that Chesney can sell HC to guys like Dobbs, Barron, and Asante, who are highly sought-after recruits. But being able to recruit studs at WR and LB has not translated to recruiting the QB position well at all, for whatever reason that may be.
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