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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 11, 2021 12:16:22 GMT -5
If you have ever watched This Old House -- which you should as it is hosted by a HC alum -- if the builder took a single story Cape Cod house, added a new family room on one side, and created a new room(s) in a previously unfinished attic by building dormers, that is not considered a new house. Rather, it is considered to be an existing house that was remodeled and added to. Which guy is the alum? Just curious. Starting a project on Cape Cod this year that kind of fits in your description. Bought the house 12 years ago; have stayed above water by renting it seasonally; now time to migrate there. The additions made by previous owners generally fall in the "why the hell did they do that" category which we hope to rectify. Kevin O'Connor '90 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_O%27Connor_(TV_personality)
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Post by bigfan on Jun 11, 2021 13:49:01 GMT -5
Is it possible that the AD has had discussions with HE and was told that if we upgrade the rink to 4,000 seats we would be invited to join HE? If Uconn can have 4,000 seats why can't we have that same number?
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Post by matunuck on Jun 11, 2021 13:57:11 GMT -5
The rink will still be a recruiting albatross if the players are still staring at a wall across from their bench at the end of whatever we do.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 11, 2021 14:32:33 GMT -5
The rink will still be a recruiting albatross if the players are still staring at a wall across from their bench at the end of whatever we do. I don't think that is going to change. It would probably be cheaper to build a new rink than blowing out that wall, moving the ice sheet, etc
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 11, 2021 15:51:16 GMT -5
Is it possible that the AD has had discussions with HE and was told that if we upgrade the rink to 4,000 seats we would be invited to join HE? If Uconn can have 4,000 seats why can't we have that same number? ADMB has said his first priorities are M/W basketball. For men's basketball, that means becoming a dominant team in the PL, and having a winning reputation that extends beyond the PL. For him, HC's strongest sports tradition is men's basketball, and the school needs to build on, and add to that tradition. His second priority is football, where the goal is to become pre-eminent and advance beyond the first two rounds of the FCS playoffs. He sounds like an AD who is not going to spend time jumping through hoops to secure HE membership for the men, particularly when he is not even close to achieving either of his first two priorities. As he said, and this is pretty much a direct quote, 'I am not interested in playing ice hockey on a Thursday night before a thousand fans in a 15,000 seat venue.' A 4,000 seat rink is a brand new rink. It seems he is looking at the cost of an expansion that would provide half of that, or a bit more.
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Post by matunuck on Jun 11, 2021 16:10:46 GMT -5
The first two priorities have much more to do with the PL and the AI than outlays.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 11, 2021 16:33:54 GMT -5
The first two priorities have much more to do with the PL and the AI than outlays. He is well familiar with what a money pit HE is. Incurring an additional $2 million or so in losses for playing in the HE when he is trying to fund more scollies and more money for coaches means HE membership for the men gets squeezed out.
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Post by matunuck on Jun 11, 2021 16:59:00 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about HE. Again, 1) his first two priorities have more to do with the PL itself and the AI than outlays, and 2) the rink will remain a recruiting albatross if the players are still staring at a wall across from their bench at the end of whatever we do.
That said, many thanks PP for posting the insights of ADMB on what’s next for HC athletics. Much appreciate you going through the trouble to do so.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 11, 2021 22:10:39 GMT -5
The first two priorities have much more to do with the PL and the AI than outlays. He is well familiar with what a money pit HE is. Incurring an additional $2 million or so in losses for playing in the HE when he is trying to fund more scollies and more money for coaches means HE membership for the men gets squeezed out. Good point. Northeastern, Providence and B.C. are all members of HE so he is well aware of the pros and cons. The AHA has a bid to the NCAA. I hope Coach Riga can help us get back there.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 12, 2021 7:06:49 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about HE. Again, 1) his first two priorities have more to do with the PL itself and the AI than outlays, and 2) the rink will remain a recruiting albatross if the players are still staring at a wall across from their bench at the end of whatever we do. That said, many thanks PP for posting the insights of ADMB on what’s next for HC athletics. Much appreciate you going through the trouble to do so. Understood. Now a consequence of expanding the Hart rink would be HC having no on-campus rink for a year. Labor costs would eat you alive if they tried to do the demolition and construction in six months. So HC will need to rent an ice sheet somewhere. I don't know what's available. The Fidelity Bank Ice Center (two rinks) is used by numerous teams: the "Worcester Railers HC, Worcester White Hawks, Railers Jr. Hockey Club, Junior Railers, Worcester Academy, St. Pauls, B ecker College, [Assumption], Worcester State, WPI Club, and Many More!" I don't know how much it would cost to rent the DCU for six months: if it was $5,000 a day, that's nearly $1 million. My guess is that it would probably be cheaper to rent ice at the New England Sports Center in Marlborough, which has eight rinks, and bus.
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Post by HC92 on Jun 12, 2021 7:16:15 GMT -5
Definitely can’t see us paying to play a full season of AHA games at the DCU. A smaller, much cheaper alternative would be fine for a year.
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Post by matunuck on Jun 12, 2021 7:25:48 GMT -5
We've made any renovation more expensive by waiting and not including it in the Luth expansion/renovation. We will now get less bang for the buck, as they say.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 12, 2021 7:31:41 GMT -5
The first two priorities have much more to do with the PL and the AI than outlays. He is well familiar with what a money pit HE is. Incurring an additional $2 million or so in losses for playing in the HE when he is trying to fund more scollies and more money for coaches means HE membership for the men gets squeezed out.You'll be wrong yet again on this assertion.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2021 8:56:18 GMT -5
Very entertaining exchange. We have our CIA/NSA connected guy with obvious BoT connections to boot vs. the guy that knows everything on the "inside" of Holy Cross athletics because, as we say, he "knows a guy." Someone's intelligence is wrong. [P.S. just binge-watched "Covert Affairs" I had never even heard of before. Might be coloring my outlook on this thread. Excellent show . . . all 5 seasons! ]
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Post by bfoley82 on Jun 12, 2021 9:54:51 GMT -5
I didn't say anything about HE. Again, 1) his first two priorities have more to do with the PL itself and the AI than outlays, and 2) the rink will remain a recruiting albatross if the players are still staring at a wall across from their bench at the end of whatever we do. That said, many thanks PP for posting the insights of ADMB on what’s next for HC athletics. Much appreciate you going through the trouble to do so. Understood. Now a consequence of expanding the Hart rink would be HC having no on-campus rink for a year. Labor costs would eat you alive if they tried to do the demolition and construction in six months. So HC will need to rent an ice sheet somewhere. I don't know what's available. The Fidelity Bank Ice Center (two rinks) is used by numerous teams: the "Worcester Railers HC, Worcester White Hawks, Railers Jr. Hockey Club, Junior Railers, Worcester Academy, St. Pauls, B ecker College, [Assumption], Worcester State, WPI Club, and Many More!" I don't know how much it would cost to rent the DCU for six months: if it was $5,000 a day, that's nearly $1 million. My guess is that it would probably be cheaper to rent ice at the New England Sports Center in Marlborough, which has eight rinks, and bus. There is only one sheet at Marlboro that is even close to being able to host D-1 hockey. Good luck getting that
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 12, 2021 10:36:14 GMT -5
Time to think outside the Blue lines.....
Practices will possibly be at the Hogan Rink in Auburn or in Marlboro. Home games will be split between the Hogan Rink and the Babson College Skating Center during the time of reconstruction for the Hart Rink.
Now, wasn’t that an easy solution.
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Post by timholycross on Jun 12, 2021 10:53:02 GMT -5
I can't imagine HC playing more than a game or two at the DCU if such a scenario unfolded.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 12, 2021 12:05:09 GMT -5
ADMB holds five sports to a higher standard of competitiveness (and success) than all other HC sports. These five sports are M/W basketball, M/W ice hockey, and football. Three of the sports are at NCAA roster caps; women's ice hockey is moving toward the roster cap; and football is at the PL roster cap of 60 full scollies.
All other sports are below, in some cases substantially below, NCAA roster caps for scollies.. ADMB believes that HC cannot be competitive in those sports that are substantially below roster caps, when other PL schools are at or near the roster caps. He has also said that there are several teams and coaches who are overperforming, given the small number of scollies HC is presently awarding for those sports.
ADMB has been told, or has come to believe, that the facility aspects of the Hart rink are sub-standard, and this is hampering recruiting, particularly for the men's team. So he has a plan to remedy that. This is not something that will be done tomorrow, so the new coach will initially have to recruit on the promise of major changes are coming, much like TG had to recruit with only renderings of what Luth would look like when finished. And Luth was a game-changer when it came to recruiting, because it underscored HC's commitment to much of its athletic program. (I daresay no other PL school has basketball coaches and players suites equal to or surpassing Luth.)
Softball is likely his current number #1 facility priority because HC is probably still not in compliance with the Federal consent decree for that sport. There are no locker rooms or bathroom facilities or lights at that field, while the baseball team has such. Unequal. The consent decree preceded ADNP, that's how long ago this issue has lingered.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 12, 2021 12:40:09 GMT -5
Time to trot out (being that we haven't discussed this in weeks!) that Holy Cross has way too many sports for a school its size.
I'd rather see fewer sports with greater focus and success. But, don't ask me which ones to cut. My old management 101 expression was "if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority" or, better known, the old expression "you can't be all things to all people" and that would seem to apply to college athletics as well.
So, it's all above my pay grade but do wish Marcus, Vince and the BoT would take another look at this.
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Post by crossbball13 on Jun 12, 2021 12:51:18 GMT -5
Understood. Now a consequence of expanding the Hart rink would be HC having no on-campus rink for a year. Labor costs would eat you alive if they tried to do the demolition and construction in six months. So HC will need to rent an ice sheet somewhere. I don't know what's available. The Fidelity Bank Ice Center (two rinks) is used by numerous teams: the "Worcester Railers HC, Worcester White Hawks, Railers Jr. Hockey Club, Junior Railers, Worcester Academy, St. Pauls, B ecker College, [Assumption], Worcester State, WPI Club, and Many More!" I don't know how much it would cost to rent the DCU for six months: if it was $5,000 a day, that's nearly $1 million. My guess is that it would probably be cheaper to rent ice at the New England Sports Center in Marlborough, which has eight rinks, and bus. There is only one sheet at Marlboro that is even close to being able to host D-1 hockey. Good luck getting that Dude you are so brutal. Why do you post?
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Post by gks on Jun 12, 2021 13:00:18 GMT -5
The first two priorities have much more to do with the PL and the AI than outlays. He is well familiar with what a money pit HE is. Incurring an additional $2 million or so in losses for playing in the HE when he is trying to fund more scollies and more money for coaches means HE membership for the men gets squeezed out. If Hockey East is such a money pit why have no schools left? There are other options that would eagerly take HE teams.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 12, 2021 16:03:43 GMT -5
Certainly can’t say that Hockey East has provide a financial Bonanza to similar in size Catholic Colleges.
Merrimack at the end of fiscal year 2019 had an endowment of 58.9 million and Providence College has enormous financial issues and a drop in their Forbes rating. Providence College endowment at the end of fiscal year 2019 was 234 million. While with current market conditions, the endowments have risen, still, Hockey East is not a revenue generator.
The question remains, what can Hockey East do financially for Holy Cross? Losing money in excess of 1 million or more does not seem like a viable option.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 12, 2021 16:05:42 GMT -5
Time to trot out (being that we haven't discussed this in weeks!) that Holy Cross has way too many sports for a school its size. I'd rather see fewer sports with greater focus and success. But, don't ask me which ones to cut. My old management 101 expression was "if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority" or, better known, the old expression "you can't be all things to all people" and that would seem to apply to college athletics as well. So, it's all above my pay grade but do wish Marcus, Vince and the BoT would take another look at this. On the other hand, schools that cut sports suck pond water. When has that announcement ever received a positive response? We have a can do guy in ADMB, a can do and has done guy in Coach Chesney to show the way for other coaches and a new President who knows HC is not your father's Oldsmobile but doesn't want to come in like Mack the Knife and start cutting without giving it the old college try first. With the endowment nearing a billion there is no way to look gracious while cutting sports and that could start not necessarily a death cycle, but a period of decline with less and less reasons for good well rounded students to choose Holy Cross.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Jun 12, 2021 16:24:33 GMT -5
He is well familiar with what a money pit HE is. Incurring an additional $2 million or so in losses for playing in the HE when he is trying to fund more scollies and more money for coaches means HE membership for the men gets squeezed out. If Hockey East is such a money pit why have no schools left? There are other options that would eagerly take HE teams. All Division I schools in New England lose money on their athletic program. The only school that makes money on a sport is BC, which had a $5 million 'profit' from football in 2019 (pre-COVID season). All winter/spring sports were affected by COVID. BC lost money on its overall program. (By 'lose money', total expenses for a sport exceed generated revenue for that sport.) The question every school faces is how much money do you want to lose, and on what sports.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 12, 2021 16:38:42 GMT -5
I worked for a company, that in the early 1990’ had a Chairman who was a disciple of Jack Welch and the GE model.
Each strategic business unit (SBU’s) had to be the top three in the business was the mantra. Welch, as well as the Chairman of my old company and Dr.Michael Hammer, sold their BS that Business Processing Re-engineering was great for American Companies, and would save US industries regardless of their market, did not matter, tangibles or intangibles, to anyone willing to listen and pay. I will never forget attending a presentation with Dr. Hammer. I had to restrain myself from getting up and telling him face to face what a pile of xxxx he was expounding. While he was a PHD engineer from MIT, and I was not, the process that he was advocating was severely flawed. But his acolytes in the corporate board rooms were all genuflecting to him that he was the Guru.
Long story short, the company that I was working for, while still in business, is no longer a financial juggernaut that it once was. It is now a subsidiary of another well known conglomerate, without their own ticker on the stock market.
General Electric latest stock price at closure was $13.69 a share. So much for Jack Welch’s, Return on Share Holder Equity.
Cutting sports teams at a college, like cutting business units in a corporation, often do not provide the intended results, that the snake oil salesmen promise. Recently, Stanford and Dartmouth reversed their irrational decisions of cutting teams. I for one am against cutting any teams from Holy Cross. They each provide to the vibrancy and culture to the school.
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