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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 4, 2022 20:51:38 GMT -5
Here is theolder presaeson poll, referenced earlier today on another thread, that asked each poster to state the number of regular season PL games HC needed to win in order for that poster to be satisfied with the program's progress.
The median answer was "10-11" wins.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 26, 2022 16:06:27 GMT -5
Okay, we won 7 regular season PL games which, according to the pre-season pole, means that 2 of 24 posters who weighed in on this believe that CBN is the right guy for the job.
No doubt some will make a case that the better performance in second half of PL season changes the debate
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 26, 2022 16:08:25 GMT -5
Doesn’t.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 26, 2022 16:25:39 GMT -5
Ouch
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 26, 2022 16:28:29 GMT -5
Brett has a constituency of one and the team played it's best ball after that constituent arrived. With Gates back it will be a tough trigger for Kit to pull.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 26, 2022 16:42:44 GMT -5
L/S, these are 2 distinct questions:
1. Will Kit "pull the trigger?" 2. Is Nelson the right guy for the job?
While winning 7 games in a weak league may be "good enough" to save his job, I don't think Gates coming back will be a determining factor either way. And, FWIW (I know, nothing), if I was Kit, unless Nelson wins at least 2 more games this season, he'd be terminated. And, I am confident any buy-out money could be found without dipping into the operating budget.
As for the second question, Nelson is absolutely, positively NOT the right guy for this job at Holy Cross. Maybe somewhere else. Not here. He still holds the worst winning percentage of any Holy Cross head basketball coach in history and that includes counting multiple wins against D3 teams. There has been individual improvement of some players. There has been very little, if any, improvement in team play. That's a function of the head coach. Individual player improvement can come simply by additional experience. Team improvement has to come from the coach. I have little doubt that next season that our young players will be better regardless of who the head coach will be. Can/will individual talent overcome a lack of synergy? Maybe in our weak league.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 26, 2022 17:03:23 GMT -5
Brett has a constituency of one and the team played it's best ball after that constituent arrived. With Gates back it will be a tough trigger for Kit to pull. Agree but playing the contrarian let him go now the new, bring in a new coach and he can spend time on recruiting for the following season, and focus all of his attention on winning more than we lose. Kit would not be leaving him with a big gap to fill food for thought
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 26, 2022 17:03:56 GMT -5
When Coach Brown succeeded Coach Kearney he started very slowly, but he had about the most job security of any coach in the country because FADDR had just fired the one bullet he had to fire for quite a while.
I'm just saying that Kit has one MBB coaching hire to make in the near future and he might be tempted to measure twice and cut once.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 27, 2022 7:27:19 GMT -5
I have questions myself about CBN.....for one, I don't understand his use of the press. I'm also not a fan of the way he's been using (not using) Louth. But - if they were to let him go now I think there would be a degree of unfairness to it; I'm also not sure of how much you would gain by doing it now.
People keep saying the youth of the team is an excuse, but I haven't been able to find one example of a successful PL team that had only 2 upperclassmen, not one example.
With the exception of GG, not 1 player has experienced a "normal" season, where you play 2 games a week from November to February.
With all the disappointments, I would actually give CBN a decent grade for the way he has held the group together, especially with the injuries (GG, RJJ, Bubba, Dorsey, Townsel and Rabs all missing time). I'm not seeing any quit, or pouting, or anything like that. Hanging around after the game, I saw GG come over to see a couple of people in the stands. He looked totally spent - it was all he could do to climb up a couple of rows into the bleachers.
You let go of the coach, I'm wondering how easy it will be to bring in a new guy......"what, I've got 3 years to turn this around?"
I would also say that it's harder to be a good low D-1 coach now, with the transfer stuff (and easier to be a high major coach). Maybe the basketball version of Bob Chesney is out there......maybe not.
In my mind, expectations next year are totally differrent than what this years' should have been; a squad of mostly upperclassmen, a normal (hopefully) schedule, a (hopefully) fully healthy RJJ.
Just my opinion.
P.S. - George Blaney was in attendance yesterday.
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Post by bigfan on Feb 27, 2022 7:37:06 GMT -5
Don't fire Nelson, let's hope he can get a true big man to help in rebounding and to help on defense in the paint. I think there is hope in this team with a solid big man. Hopefully the shooting from outside will improve especially the three point shot.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 27, 2022 8:04:21 GMT -5
Hope is not a strategy and rarely brings success
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Post by alum on Feb 27, 2022 8:33:19 GMT -5
I have come around to keeping BN. No extension yet, but clear goals including an understanding that he could be fired mid season next year if necessary.
1. I don’t like throwing $300,000 around. 2. RJJ 3. As much of a disaster the first half of the season was, I am now at a point where I think every game is winnable. That matters in making me interested. 4. I am not really impressed with him as an Xs and Os guy, but I’ll give him one more year. 5. I know this is risky—kids might nor come for a guy who might be in his last year—but I think it’s worth it.
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Post by hc6774 on Feb 27, 2022 8:33:24 GMT -5
Hope is not a strategy and rarely brings success is return of Gates part of a strategy?
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Post by sader81 on Feb 27, 2022 8:40:23 GMT -5
The team shows incredible promise one day, and stinks up the court the next. Being a very young team may be the cause of such inconsistency, or maybe it falls on the coaching staff, hard to tell. I never felt Nelson was a good fit. His run and gun offense with man defense, has never worked at HC, or at any PL team I can remember. But he has brought in some talented kids that fit his philosophy and at times have played very well. If you pull the trigger, you undoubtedly will have another mass exodus to the transfer portal, and we will face another multi year rebuilding effort. I’m getting too old to “wait till next year,” much less three or four. He’s brought some talent in and deserves another year to hopefully show he’s right and most here are wrong. Anything less than a top 3 finish in the PL next year, then rightfully show him the door.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 27, 2022 8:44:30 GMT -5
We are not and have not been anywhere close to a run and gun offense. We play at, and have for Nelson’s 3 years, one of the slowest tempos in the country.
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Post by sader81 on Feb 27, 2022 9:01:07 GMT -5
What we have, and what he wanted, are not the same.
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Post by hchoops on Feb 27, 2022 9:05:56 GMT -5
He has recruited all of this roster. If he truly wanted a run and gun offense, the blame is on him for not recruiting for and/or playing it. Three seasons is long enough.
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Post by trimster on Feb 27, 2022 9:15:38 GMT -5
We are not and have not been anywhere close to a run and gun offense. We play at, and have for Nelson’s 3 years, one of the slowest tempos in the country. Good point. How many fast break points do we typically get. Not many. CBN has one some strange strategies. We play man to man for 94 feet but never trap even when behind by 5-7 points late in games. We rush the ball up court for about 40’ and then stop and run a set offense. Another thing I have noticed recently is the number of times someone starts to drive, stops or is stopped by the D at the elbow or deeper, basically in no man’s land. They are too close to Gates or Coulibaly to make an entry pass and have to pass the ball back out, basically resetting the offense. I would lump all 3 things together as wasted energy. Maybe I am not giving enough credit to the D in the latter case.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 27, 2022 9:16:21 GMT -5
Hope is not a strategy and rarely brings success is return of Gates part of a strategy? Of course he is a strong part of it. His return makes this a very positive recruiting year, especially for the PL That said, how much better can this team be a year from now given our inconsistent offense? Batchelder might offer a spark from the perimeter and Montgomery and Humphrey should improve? will Dorsey be a more consistent offensive threat next year? Will Kenny develop a mid range shot, similar to the one that helps Gates? Will we be any better defensively next year? Can certain players, who get a ton of minutes, significantly improve defensively? will the team continue to pick up full court and never pressure? can we avoid key loses to the Portal? so many questions, that for another year remain unanswered, and requires hope to make things better. As we know, hope is wanting or expecting something to happen without any evidence it can. so with all of the evidence before us can this team and the program be a consistent 18-24 game winner and challenge for the title and an NCAA bid-that to me should be the standard for Holy Cross basketball- both men(9-21) and women (19-8) my gut says tear off the bandage, thank him for his service, and do what is necessary for the program to deliver a product the team, the school, the alums, and friends in the community deserve another year will be a slightly better version of this year and only more frustration!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2022 9:17:14 GMT -5
We are not and have not been anywhere close to a run and gun offense. We play at, and have for Nelson’s 3 years, one of the slowest tempos in the country. Not exactly. While we aren't run and gun, we also aren't very slow to get up shots. We rank 182nd in tempo and, in league games, rank second in the PL.
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Post by trimster on Feb 27, 2022 9:22:44 GMT -5
He has recruited all of this roster. If he truly wanted a run and gun offense, the blame is on him for not recruiting for and/or playing it. Three seasons is long enough. Speaking of recruiting, fairly or not, one could argue both Carmody and Nelson’s recruiting ability are judged by one large class apiece. At similar stages, I don’t see a huge difference between Carmody’s six man class of Butler and company and the current 7 man sophomore class. I know BBC would vehemently disagree but I just don’t see it.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 27, 2022 9:29:31 GMT -5
I have said before and continue to believe that Nelson is a less personable version of MB. I just feel like the moderate success we had under MB is kind of the ceiling for BN and we’ll be mired in that kind of mediocrity for the remainder of Nelson’s tenure. We should be better next year with almost the whole team returning (assuming GG comes back and KL doesn’t transfer) and Batchelder coming on board to add some outside scoring. But are we going to win the PL Tournament or seriously contend for the regular season title?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 27, 2022 9:37:33 GMT -5
I think Nelson probably saved his job by winning five of six games midway through the PL schedule. If we had won fewer than five games, I think there was a really good chance Kit would pull the plug.
The question I ask myself is, even if Nelson has bought himself another year, have we learned enough about him as a coach to know that he's never going to get this program to where it needs to be (top three in the PL and top 150 nationally)? If the answer is yes, that I see no reason to delay the inevitable. Also, while I'm not sure how long Nelson's contract is (four years or five years?), but let's just say it's four years...how is he supposed to recruit next year?
The PL was, perhaps, the worst it has been in the history of the league. Six of ten teams rank 292nd or worse as of this posting. The league ranks 28 of 32 conferences. Despite all of that, we finished 8th.
I'm still mad, by the way, DJ Hart didn't see the court yesterday. I think that's absolutely awful by Nelson.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 27, 2022 10:06:15 GMT -5
So we're 8th, eh? 200% chance the season will be over by Thursday; had we been 7th there'd be some hope. Unless Records loses his lucky headband and can't play.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 27, 2022 10:10:16 GMT -5
With the Portal (and the temporary expansion of it due to the Covid bonus year), I worry the biggest issue is above the coaching. I think it's a terrible time to be a low D-1, academically oriented program.....with no grad school. I also wonder if the recent slide of the overall PL is tied to the huge influence of the Portal. Challenging times I'm afraid.
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