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Post by hc87 on Jun 23, 2021 21:31:37 GMT -5
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 23, 2021 21:54:01 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jun 24, 2021 4:31:14 GMT -5
The Crusaders were riding high in that article - and justifiably so. #1 in 1-AA with a bye in Round 1. That loaded HC team team, as we know, got trampled by nationally ranked BC (47-7) in front of 38K fans at Sullivan Stadium. BC went on to beat 13-ranked Alabama in front of 58K fans at Sullivan Stadium the next week and then ended their season with a 1-point loss to Notre Dame. I’ve read the article before but hadn’t really noticed this quote (I may be one of the few posters who thought pulling the plug on the BC games two years later was sensible - and if anything, was overdue): Carter knows that Boston College has a 7-2 record, which includes victories over Clemson and Penn State. He knows an upset could happen, but he is also somewhat fearful that his players will be physically overmatched. So, he isn't placing too much emphasis on this game. Carter has not won 125 games in 18 years as a coach without being pragmatic. |
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Post by joe on Jun 24, 2021 6:25:50 GMT -5
Appropriate article to re-read in 2021.
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Post by mm67 on Jun 24, 2021 7:02:07 GMT -5
Was in attendance at the BC-HC game in '83. HC was undefeated & pumped up. The team stormed onto the field , music blasting.
Then the game started.
The game was a disaster, an absolute nightmare. The players did their best but were clearly totally overmatched, physically outmanned in every phase of this game. It was brutal.
I had always held out hope that the rivalry could continue but not after witnessing this massacre of a great HC team. The game was not a one off loss. BC had been clobbering HC for many consecutive years. Some games were closer but the result was the same. BC wins. This game brought me to the realization that HC could no longer compete against BC.It was clear. HC did not belong on the same field with BC and hadn't belonged for a number of years.
Left the stadium on that day extremely demoralized. Very sad and a bit angry for some reason.
It was obvious. The annual rivalry game against BC had to end. It was a great loss for many of us. Football has never been quite the same for me & others.
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Post by Tom on Jun 24, 2021 7:22:41 GMT -5
Thanks for posting, 87. And yes, can't help but thinking about how this story ended
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Jun 24, 2021 7:35:00 GMT -5
BC had been clobbering HC for many consecutive years. Some games were closer but the result was the same. BC wins. So which was it? Were we getting clobbered for consecutive years or were some of the games closer? For the record: 1977 Win HC 35 BC 20 1978 Win HC 30 BC 29 1979 L BC 13 HC 10 1980 L BC 27 HC 26 1981 L BC 28 HC 24 Yes, the 47 - 7 game was proof that the programs were on different tracks, but as recently as two seasons before we had been very competitive for 5 years in a row. |
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Post by timholycross on Jun 24, 2021 9:02:00 GMT -5
You left 1982 out, that was the beginning of the routs. 41-10 or something like that. Flutie threw a bomb for a TD on the first BC play from scrimmage. BC had to win to get a bowl invitation, their first in 30 years (lost to Auburn and Bo Jackson, a freshman; you might remember that guy).
I do wish Carter's arrival on campus was when Ed Doherty left; perhaps things would have turned out differently if the program got to the early 80s with a string of good teams. Perhaps Brooks' decisions would have been different. You have to figure what he wanted to do had built up in his mind over time.
1983- it should also be noted that Gill Fenerty and Peter Muldoon didn't play a snap. Fenerty hurt his shoulder in the Harvard game (and only made a cameo appearance in the playoffs); can't remember when and how Muldoon got dinged up, but he was out too. Carter trying to downplay the loss under those constraints was understandable. Also, note that BC missed an incredible number of PAT kicks, the score should have been something like 52-7, even worse (their awful kicking game cost them the Liberty Bowl against ND).
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Jun 24, 2021 9:54:53 GMT -5
You left 1982 out, that was the beginning of the routs. 41-10 or something like that. Flutie threw a bomb for a TD on the first BC play from scrimmage. BC had to win to get a bowl invitation, their first in 30 years (lost to Auburn and Bo Jackson, a freshman; you might remember that guy). I do wish Carter's arrival on campus was when Ed Doherty left; perhaps things would have turned out differently if the program got to the early 80s with a string of good teams. Perhaps Brooks' decisions would have been different. You have to figure what he wanted to do had built up in his mind over time. 1983- it should also be noted that Gill Fenerty and Peter Muldoon didn't play a snap. Fenerty hurt his shoulder in the Harvard game (and only made a cameo appearance in the playoffs); can't remember when and how Muldoon got dinged up, but he was out too. Carter trying to downplay the loss under those constraints was understandable. Also, note that BC missed an incredible number of PAT kicks, the score should have been something like 52-7, even worse (their awful kicking game cost them the Liberty Bowl against ND). 1982 was 35-10, not 41-10 fwiw.....and yes, after the BC game we went into the Western Carolina playoff game very beat up. Several starters out, iirc, Gil, WRs => Gary Quinlan & Bill Cowley and more |
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Post by timholycross on Jun 24, 2021 10:36:44 GMT -5
You left 1982 out, that was the beginning of the routs. 41-10 or something like that. Flutie threw a bomb for a TD on the first BC play from scrimmage. BC had to win to get a bowl invitation, their first in 30 years (lost to Auburn and Bo Jackson, a freshman; you might remember that guy). I do wish Carter's arrival on campus was when Ed Doherty left; perhaps things would have turned out differently if the program got to the early 80s with a string of good teams. Perhaps Brooks' decisions would have been different. You have to figure what he wanted to do had built up in his mind over time. 1983- it should also be noted that Gill Fenerty and Peter Muldoon didn't play a snap. Fenerty hurt his shoulder in the Harvard game (and only made a cameo appearance in the playoffs); can't remember when and how Muldoon got dinged up, but he was out too. Carter trying to downplay the loss under those constraints was understandable. Also, note that BC missed an incredible number of PAT kicks, the score should have been something like 52-7, even worse (their awful kicking game cost them the Liberty Bowl against ND). 1982 was 35-10, not 41-10 fwiw.....and yes, after the BC game we went into the Western Carolina playoff game very beat up. Several starters out, iirc, Gil, WRs => Gary Quinlan & Bill Cowley and more Wasn't very pleasant whatever the score was.  IIRC Quinlan got hurt on a terrible decision, a short pass where he was just standing there back to the defenders- a sitting duck. Steve DeOssie absolutely clobbered him; might possibly be a "hit on a defenseless receiver" these days, but 100% legal then. |
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Post by hc87 on Jun 24, 2021 11:12:59 GMT -5
Couple of takeaways from that article:
* I wonder what went into Coach Carter's calculus in taking the HC job? He is quoted in the article as saying "I'll only take a job where I know I'll be able to win." This obviously came to be at HC under Carter but I'm curious what he saw looking at HC in 1980-1. Promises by Brooks, EBW etc to upgrade the program etc?
* Things are usually nevah as good or nevah as bad as you think things are. This was probably the apex of Coach Carter's coaching career and you can almost feel Carter's optimism (comparing himself to Bear Bryant etc) exuding out of this article....two short years later it all ended tragically.
* I had forgotten how young Carter, relatively speaking, was at this point. He was only 40 at the time of the article, 3 years younger than Chesney is right now.
As for the BC series, yes, we were obviously on 2 different tracks at this point but we also had the misfortune of having some of our better teams in that era (roughly 1981-1986) coincide when BC had some of their stronger teams ovah the last 30-40 years. I'll forevah wonder how the 1987 game would have played out where BC sort of stumbled around that season. The 83 and 84 teams both fought valiantly with BC for a half, trailing 10-0 and 17-10 respectively before succumbing to BC's superior talent/depth.
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Post by breezy on Jun 24, 2021 11:58:21 GMT -5
* I wonder what went into Coach Carter's calculus in taking the HC job? He is quoted in the article as saying "I'll only take a job where I know I'll be able to win." This obviously came to be at HC under Carter but I'm curious what he saw looking at HC in 1980-1. Promises by Brooks, EBW etc to upgrade the program etc?. It was a long time ago (hard to believe -- more than 40 years ago), and I am not as young as I used to be (but who of us can say anything different?), but I have a distinct memory of reading something (I could not possibly remember where) about Coach Carter's thoughts when he decided to take the head coaching position at Holy Cross. As close as I can remember, he stated something to the effect of: "and then I looked at the salaries of the assistant coaches, and I said 'no, you can't have that and have a winning program.'" So, I have always thought that the negotiations included not only his compensation but also the entire budget of the football program, including specifically the salaries of the assistant coaches. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jun 24, 2021 12:19:30 GMT -5
Carter's staff with Duffner, Sherman, Coyle, etc. was arguably the best in the country.
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Post by Chu Chu on Jun 24, 2021 12:37:35 GMT -5
A great article. Feinstein can flat out write. I found myself getting emotional, knowing how things ended. |
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Jun 24, 2021 13:09:28 GMT -5
Carter's staff with Duffner, Sherman, Coyle, etc. was arguably the best in the country. ....also Tom Rossley (went on to become Head Coach @ SMU, Frank Novak, albeit a holdover from Wheelwright's staff.....went on to a ~ 15 yr NFL coaching career |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jun 24, 2021 13:31:34 GMT -5
The HC locker room on the north side of Fitton, next to 290, was also part of the negotiations that brought Coach Carter to HC.
Hope the renovations to the building that have been discussed, will be bring the building up to a suitable and nice facility for game day operations. Maybe the building should be named after Coach Carter with the upgrade this summer.
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Post by alum on Jun 24, 2021 13:35:39 GMT -5
Didn't Rossley come after Duffner took over?
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Post by hc87 on Jun 24, 2021 13:51:55 GMT -5
Didn't Rossley come after Duffner took over? Yes he was at HC in 86 and 87 as Off. Coordinator/QB coach....in 85 he was the OC for the USFL San Antonio franchise...he left HC in 88 to be the OC at SMU. |
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Post by hiltonheadcrusader on Jun 24, 2021 13:54:15 GMT -5
Didn't Rossley come after Duffner took over? Yes, I stand corrected. Rossley's first year was '86 |
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ignatius
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 122
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Post by ignatius on Jun 24, 2021 14:01:10 GMT -5
A great piece on Coach Carter. A similarly moving piece on Coach Allen. Thank you for posting. I played for Coach Allen and often think of him—always fondly.. They are both giants in the legacy of Holy Cross football. May their souls be at peace. |
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Post by thecrossisback on Jun 24, 2021 20:41:11 GMT -5
In 1983 vs BC
Holy Cross was missing Fenerty who had 1,039 yards and 14 touchdowns
HC was missing Bill Crowley 43 catches for 665 and 8 touchdowns
HC was missing 1 AA All American Rob Porter.
That’s tough
The footage of this game is on YouTube.
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Post by hcpride on Jun 25, 2021 8:33:29 GMT -5
In 1983 vs BC Holy Cross was missing Fenerty who had 1,039 yards and 14 touchdowns HC was missing Bill Crowley 43 catches for 665 and 8 touchdowns HC was missing 1 AA All American Rob Porter. That’s tough The footage of this game is on YouTube. Yes, the team was missing some of its top talent (also, Quinlan was injured and ended his season during the game) and the Feinstein piece hinted (very strongly) the game v 1-A BC was not particularly important to Carter. Feinstein also notes Carter was a bit fearful of the physical mismatch (I read that as potential for injuries). Carter was a realist. That BC team beat Penn State, Clemson and Alabama that year. They were steamrolling us whether or not we played all of our top guys. And they had much bigger fish to fry in their next game (Alabama). |
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Post by joe on Jun 25, 2021 9:22:23 GMT -5
Never saw this before. One of the finest human beings I’ve ever met. He was put on this earth to be a coach. I had him as both a position and head coach for the best year and a half of my football career, which he helped resurrect basically from shambles. It would have been tough to see him decline like that. I would have enjoyed his friendship all these years. Maybe this link deserves its own thread crossisback? |
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Post by rickii on Jun 25, 2021 10:23:33 GMT -5
In 1983 vs BC Holy Cross was missing Fenerty who had 1,039 yards and 14 touchdowns HC was missing Bill Crowley 43 catches for 665 and 8 touchdowns HC was missing 1 AA All American Rob Porter. That’s tough The footage of this game is on YouTube. Yes, the team was missing some of its top talent (also, Quinlan was injured and ended his season during the game) and the Feinstein piece hinted (very strongly) the game v 1-A BC was not particularly important to Carter. Feinstein also notes Carter was a bit fearful of the physical mismatch (I read that as potential for injuries). Carter was a realist. That BC team beat Penn State, Clemson and Alabama that year. They were steamrolling us whether or not we played all of our top guys. And they had much bigger fish to fry in their next game (Alabama). Respectfully, I knew Rick Carter very well and much better than Feinstein ever did. EVERY game was important to Rick and without question so were all the BC games. He loved the challenge and even admonished me for dwelling on the point spread his second season. Feinstein DID NOT quote Rick on the physical mismatch subject in the article! And any such talk to a guy he didn’t know well at all doing an article like this would have been TOTALLY out of character for Rick Carter. And no way was he fearing his players getting hurt. Heck, BC lost TWO starters on defense to injury during the game. So enough with this bunk. Lastly, Feinstein states that Carter was largely unknown prior to HC. Feinstein was clueless....Carter was widely known NATIONALLY in both college and NFL circles as one of the brightest young coaching minds in America. Ed Williams knew that too. Lastly II....NC State Rick was aware of their interest. They contacted Perry/Brooks. This WAS NOT a job that Rick thought of as a plum. However, he was very ticked-off at Brooks not giving him the opportunity to listen to any offer details....and then respectfully decline. Rick felt this decision by Brooks would hurt him with other more attractive suitors. This was the start of Rick and staff’s distrust of Brooks. |
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Post by timholycross on Jun 25, 2021 10:24:10 GMT -5
In 1983 vs BC Holy Cross was missing Fenerty who had 1,039 yards and 14 touchdowns HC was missing Bill Crowley 43 catches for 665 and 8 touchdowns HC was missing 1 AA All American Rob Porter. That’s tough The footage of this game is on YouTube. Yes, the team was missing some of its top talent (also, Quinlan was injured and ended his season during the game) and the Feinstein piece hinted (very strongly) the game v 1-A BC was not particularly important to Carter. Feinstein also notes Carter was a bit fearful of the physical mismatch (I read that as potential for injuries). Carter was a realist. That BC team beat Penn State, Clemson and Alabama that year. They were steamrolling us whether or not we played all of our top guys. And they had much bigger fish to fry in their next game (Alabama). All 3 BC teams, 83,84 and 86; were very good. Then they kind of fell of a cliff, the Bicknell era ended quite badly. |
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IIRC Quinlan got hurt on a terrible decision, a short pass where he was just standing there back to the defenders- a sitting duck. Steve DeOssie absolutely clobbered him; might possibly be a "hit on a defenseless receiver" these days, but 100% legal then. 
