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Post by hc87 on Oct 22, 2016 22:51:31 GMT -5
Just curious....my take is that since HC dropped scholarships initially and deemphasized football, HC football hasn't been that important on the Hill.
Am I wrong in that assumption?
Curious on the take of HC alums from 1992 and above.....do you care how well HC does in football? Are you excited about the BC game in 2018 etc?
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Post by HC92 on Oct 22, 2016 23:18:16 GMT -5
Should be 1993 and above. Class of 1992 did just fine with football.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 22, 2016 23:34:20 GMT -5
My bad....1993....point being though, I don't think HC students today (for bettah or worse} care about HC football anywhere near as much as they did from the 1980s or before. Not a big deal....though the BC rivalry being non-existent today kinda sucks...glad I went to HC when I did.
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Post by cfrivals on Oct 23, 2016 5:30:14 GMT -5
Not a grad, but followed football more than BB in the 80's and 90's. Never missed a game. Have been to one game in past 25 years. Interest in low level 1AA just not there. Product has also not been good or interesting for a long long time
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 23, 2016 8:59:46 GMT -5
Not a grad, but followed football more than BB in the 80's and 90's. Never missed a game. Have been to one game in past 25 years. Interest in low level 1AA just not there. Product has also not been good or interesting for a long long time There's your answer. I can tell you that for post-2000 alum, very few follow Holy Cross football. The good news is that those that do are passionate about the program and want to see us improve. I believe the game at Yankee Stadium as well as the upcoming FBS games will indeed stoke some incremental interest from younger alum.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 23, 2016 9:10:02 GMT -5
Bottom line for HC football seems to be excel and be a perennially ranked team, winning PL championships on at least a semi-regular basis and contending on the off years, or give up the sport entirely and save a ton of money that can be used elsewhere. I am hoping for the former but we need to consider the latter if we cannot achieve excellence on the field while doing so in an ethical manner.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Oct 23, 2016 10:54:29 GMT -5
Not a grad, but followed football more than BB in the 80's and 90's. Never missed a game. Have been to one game in past 25 years. Interest in low level 1AA just not there. Product has also not been good or interesting for a long long time There's your answer. I can tell you that for post-2000 alum, very few follow Holy Cross football. The good news is that those that do are passionate about the program and want to see us improve. I believe the game at Yankee Stadium as well as the upcoming FBS games will indeed stoke some incremental interest from younger alum. Agreed. It's never going to as important as college football is to students at Notre Dame, USC, etc. But special events like the Yankee Stadium game, the BCS games, have already garnered significant interest among young alumni. Of course everyone would rather HC be great at football, but I would say most are into invested in wins/losses as much as they are invested in the program just existing as a way to bond with fellow alumni and a reason to return to the school in the fall. To me, the biggest benefits of HC football are intangible. Wins/losses/expenses are not as important to me as basketball and hockey. However, I would never hope to see us scrap the program just because we aren't' perennially winning the 1-AA national championship. Sometimes I think Georgetown has it right, however then that would eliminate the possibility of playing BCS schools.
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Post by sarasota on Oct 23, 2016 11:20:35 GMT -5
LIGHTS!! Too cold in New England in the Fall? Brandy in your hip flask as we used to do when we were there. And a big woolen blanket for you and your wife, kids,friends, girlfriend.... That's a New England tradition. Vendors, festival atmosphere. You have to create a destination. It would be unique in Central MA. You have to want it and work to make it happen. Imagination!
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Post by sarasota on Oct 23, 2016 11:40:02 GMT -5
I sent the following to Nate Pine:
"LIGHTS AT FITTON!! Too cold in New England in the Fall? Brandy in your hip flask as we used to do when we were there. And a big woolen blanket for you and your wife, kids,friends, girlfriend.... That's a New England tradition. Vendors, festival atmosphere. Eventually the vendors would pay us for the permit to be there. You have to want it and work to make it happen. Imagination!
Finally, rename it "Edward Bennett Williams Field." He deserves it for all he did for HC sports (including renovating the stadium). Keep up your great work."
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Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by Jim on Oct 24, 2016 11:50:07 GMT -5
Just curious....my take is that since HC dropped scholarships initially and deemphasized football, HC football hasn't been that important on the Hill. Am I wrong in that assumption? Curious on the take of HC alums from 1992 and above.....do you care how well HC does in football? Are you excited about the BC game in 2018 etc?Yes. After all, nothing spells Crusader pride like driving to Chestnut Hill to watch us get smoked 66 - 6. But, you know, stranger things have happened, so, we plan to be there. And, it's still our biggest rival... in our house, anyway.
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Post by lou on Oct 24, 2016 12:02:25 GMT -5
Jim, Welcome back!
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Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by Jim on Oct 24, 2016 12:24:17 GMT -5
Thanks, Lou. To hc87's question, though. Here's what gets me: I'm a mid-90s alum. I remember a few years ago, we played a game at Central Connecticut State University. A classmate posted photos from Rentschler Field that day because she was a UConn Law alum (lives west of Hartford now, iirc). This was a person who, being in the HC band, attended every football game, every year-- and every home basketball game-- yet, on the day that Holy Cross comes to play football in New Britain, heads to beautiful East Hartford to watch the Huskies as a proud UConn alum.
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Post by dharry13 on Oct 25, 2016 12:54:54 GMT -5
I'm in that group of post 1993 grads - actually 1994 and I follow every game of every week; checking the score regularly as the game goes on. I want to see the team succeed more than you know. Despite the fact that the last class of football scholarships was 1992, our 1992 Football team (Seniors 1993 grads) was 6-5 and should have been 8-3 or 9-2. We were on that team that was 11-0 and many 1993 and 1994 grads got time on that team so the pride is there because we know what it felt like to take part in that.
Interest comes back when there is success. Look at the buzz the hoops team got on their run in the NCAA's. I'm certainly not saying a 1-AA playoff run gets the same notoriety as an NCAA run, but you would see a lot more interest if the team gets back to winning and going 8-3 or better every year. There's not doubt in my mind. Winning cures all; if you win they will come. Maybe not 15k per game, but they will come.
It would also be great to see Duff come back as a swan song. You'd get every football player from early 80's through 1994 to support the program ten fold with something like that. Pie in sky I know, but the next hire is critical.
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Post by joe on Oct 25, 2016 14:14:23 GMT -5
Being of almost the same vintage I completely agree. There is no margin of error for the next hire. I also agree about finding someone with ties to the great teams of not too distant past. When Dan Allen was hired after a 4 year debacle it seemed to be a nod back to the good old days and there was much enthusiasm at the time. The story should have been a return to excellence but unfortunately it ended tragically. Perhaps we should run that play again. By the way Dan was one of the best human beings I ever met. Would love to see one of his sons on staff.
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Post by alum on Oct 25, 2016 14:52:18 GMT -5
Thanks, Lou. To hc87's question, though. Here's what gets me: I'm a mid-90s alum. I remember a few years ago, we played a game at Central Connecticut State University. A classmate posted photos from Rentschler Field that day because she was a UConn Law alum (lives west of Hartford now, iirc). This was a person who, being in the HC band, attended every football game, every year-- and every home basketball game-- yet, on the day that Holy Cross comes to play football in New Britain, heads to beautiful East Hartford to watch the Huskies as a proud UConn alum. I graduated before 1993, but I have to chime in here. Your classmate frightens me. I am also a UCONN Law grad but I don't think of myself as a UCONN alum in the sense of having some loyalty to the school as a consequence of having been a student. As I am sure most know, the law school is in Hartford. I don't think there is any Husky feeling about the campus. I would never go to a UCONN football game when I could go to an HC game. I am a UCONN sports fan for the same reason I am a Red Sox, Patriots, Bruins, and Celtics fan--they are the home town team but it ends there. Oh, and I hope that the "beautiful East Hartford" comment was not sarcastic. It was a great place to grow up.
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Jim
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 85
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Post by Jim on Oct 25, 2016 15:08:45 GMT -5
Thanks, Lou. To hc87's question, though. Here's what gets me: I'm a mid-90s alum. I remember a few years ago, we played a game at Central Connecticut State University. A classmate posted photos from Rentschler Field that day because she was a UConn Law alum (lives west of Hartford now, iirc). This was a person who, being in the HC band, attended every football game, every year-- and every home basketball game-- yet, on the day that Holy Cross comes to play football in New Britain, heads to beautiful East Hartford to watch the Huskies as a proud UConn alum. I graduated before 1993, but I have to chime in here. Your classmate frightens me. I am also a UCONN Law grad but I don't think of myself as a UCONN alum in the sense of having some loyalty to the school as a consequence of having been a student. As I am sure most know, the law school is in Hartford. I don't think there is any Husky feeling about the campus. I would never go to a UCONN football game when I could go to an HC game. I am a UCONN sports fan for the same reason I am a Red Sox, Patriots, Bruins, and Celtics fan--they are the home town team but it ends there. Oh, and I hope that the "beautiful East Hartford" comment was not sarcastic. It was a great place to grow up. Besides having been to a game at Rentschler and spending a day of shopping in Cabela's, I've never really been to East Hartford, so, it was unjust for me to modify it in any way. Chalk it up more to carryover resentment at my Holy Cross friend(s)-- either UConn Law grads or now residents of the Constitution State-- seemingly more into the UConn teams than Holy Cross teams, especially when there's the chance to see the Crusaders playing in Connecticut. My dad used to go to the Palestra for Penn basketball games when he was in dental school there, because, of course, he was living in Philadelphia. But if the Crusaders played the Quakers, you sure as hell knew who he was rooting for.
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Post by inhocsigno on Oct 25, 2016 15:30:52 GMT -5
I can tell you that many people follow the team from afar, but may not go to the games. Some of that is mostly due to geography. I am from the Dan Allen era, including the 7-4 season in 2000 (one loss from PL championship). I follow the games weekly, usually watching the streams with my son, and speak to many former teammates weekly regarding the games and the program. There is much interest in the program and more so since TD128 ramped up his efforts. I believe that the program is moving in the right direction. Obviously, we all would like to see it move faster. Like all FCS programs outside of the few geographically isolated state schools (e.g. Montana, the Dakotas, etc.), recruiting and depth are real problems. This is amplified in the PL, especially given the academic requirements for admission. I hate to blame injuries, because 2's should be able to step in the place of 1's and perform, but we are being moronic if we don't recognize that this season would have been much different absent the injuries at various key positions at different times, i.e. QB, DB's and WR's at certain times.
Whether or not ADNP makes some move, I will support the program. Each year or two, there is one team in the league that is simply better than the rest of the PL, and Lehigh appears to be that team this year. Generally, the PL is an offense first league, and we can compete at a higher level if we focus on improving the defense in the offseason, assuming no reduction in the efficiency of a limited-injury offense. In any event, in the future, I fully expect that we will be able to compete for a PL championship each year.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 25, 2016 15:34:12 GMT -5
I'm in that group of post 1993 grads - actually 1994 and I follow every game of every week; checking the score regularly as the game goes on. I want to see the team succeed more than you know. Despite the fact that the last class of football scholarships was 1992, our 1992 Football team (Seniors 1993 grads) was 6-5 and should have been 8-3 or 9-2. We were on that team that was 11-0 and many 1993 and 1994 grads got time on that team so the pride is there because we know what it felt like to take part in that. Interest comes back when there is success. Look at the buzz the hoops team got on their run in the NCAA's. I'm certainly not saying a 1-AA playoff run gets the same notoriety as an NCAA run, but you would see a lot more interest if the team gets back to winning and going 8-3 or better every year. There's not doubt in my mind. Winning cures all; if you win they will come. Maybe not 15k per game, but they will come. It would also be great to see Duff come back as a swan song. You'd get every football player from early 80's through 1994 to support the program ten fold with something like that. Pie in sky I know, but the next hire is critical. Harry, check your private messages.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 25, 2016 16:27:07 GMT -5
I can tell you that many people follow the team from afar, but may not go to the games. Some of that is mostly due to geography. I am from the Dan Allen era, including the 7-4 season in 2000 (one loss from PL championship). I follow the games weekly, usually watching the streams with my son, and speak to many former teammates weekly regarding the games and the program. There is much interest in the program and more so since TD128 ramped up his efforts. I believe that the program is moving in the right direction. Obviously, we all would like to see it move faster. Like all FCS programs outside of the few geographically isolated state schools (e.g. Montana, the Dakotas, etc.), recruiting and depth are real problems. This is amplified in the PL, especially given the academic requirements for admission. I hate to blame injuries, because 2's should be able to step in the place of 1's and perform, but we are being moronic if we don't recognize that this season would have been much different absent the injuries at various key positions at different times, i.e. QB, DB's and WR's at certain times. Whether or not ADNP makes some move, I will support the program. Each year or two, there is one team in the league that is simply better than the rest of the PL, and Lehigh appears to be that team this year. Generally, the PL is an offense first league, and we can compete at a higher level if we focus on improving the defense in the offseason, assuming no reduction in the efficiency of a limited-injury offense. In any event, in the future, I fully expect that we will be able to compete for a PL championship each year. Great post.
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Post by sader98 on Oct 25, 2016 16:49:00 GMT -5
Short answer to the original post is yes. I typically will get the family to at least a game a year and check scores, listen to the streams, etc.
That said, I follow HC athletics because I am an alumni and generally a sports fan who'll watch a good game anywhere I can find one. Drawing in the casual fan is going to take a combination of improving the competitiveness of the product and marketing it effectively. Right now the latter, without the former, rings a little hollow. If both cylinders were firing, I don't see any reason why this program couldn't attract more fans.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 25, 2016 20:40:48 GMT -5
Appreciate the responses....heartened to hear/read that there is still some support out there from youngah alumni.
I was probably spoiled (in a HC football sense) in attending HC in the mid to late 80s....though a lifelong fan (attended my first game as a toddler in '68), my love/enjoyment for the program was cemented during my time on the Hill. Doing games on WCHC, road-tripping to different schools for games etc etc were all a big part of my time at HC. I can't imagine going to HC when many of the teams haven't been successful in the 90s and the 21st C....kudos to you guys who have done so.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 27, 2016 13:51:48 GMT -5
I follow in a very cursory fashion, checking the score on Saturday evenings during the season. I also still lurk on this board daily.
The concern for me personally is this:
-- HC basketball plays at a level where (no matter how improbable) they can win an NCAA national championship at the highest level. -- HC men's hockey plays at a level where (more possible than basketball, still unlikely) they can win an NCAA national championship at the highest level. -- HC football plays at a level where, no matter how good they are, CAN NEVER WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. They literally play in a different division. This is like asking me which minor league team I root for most in the Yankees' system. I like the big boys, and invest my time and fanaticism in them. Double AA or FCS or whatever marketing-ploy acronym they come up with in the next ten years is second rate. The programs aren't close. The spending isn't close. The talent isn't close. The media coverage isn't close. The money isn't close. We're not talking similar sports here... they are miles, planets, GALAXIES apart.
We keep talking about this ad nauseum. Interesting that this specific post at least targets alums in the post-scholarship era and asks if they are still interested. I would ask the same question/post about alums who were following the program just prior to the split within Division I NCAA football. We're starting out the discussion as a second tier product. And then the arguments that follow say that we are a second tier product within a second tier product for the past 25 years... a sort of Inception-style, "dream within a dream within a dream" of mediocrity... and then you wonder why we don't care?
I don't follow the CFL, Arena Football, minor league baseball, or D-league basketball either.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 27, 2016 14:26:26 GMT -5
I was disappointed when the "big boys" threw out the colleges that now make up FCS. It was a simple power grab so the rich could get richer. It is not as if HC wanted that or helped to bring it about, is it?
I still follow Holy Cross...my team.
PS: Please continue your "lurking" on this board. You have offered many insightful posts.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 27, 2016 15:27:06 GMT -5
Thanks, RGS.
Some other points:
This is not that recent of a trend. I was able to immediately start live broadcasts with WCHC Sports as a freshman, having never been heard or "tried out," because part of the issue was getting people to the stadium at noon (or at all) to setup, start up the broadcast, etc. Not that there were many people at the station, or specifically aligned to the sports division anyway... but it allowed me to get on air right away and follow the team very closely for four years. But I was atypical because many of my friends would rather stay at the dorms to hang out/party, or go to work, or hit the library than go to the games. I'd like to think it was because they'd rather listen to me on the radio, but it was more because of the cost benefit analysis when comparing what they could do, or had to do, instead of attend the game in person.
Having lights won't solve the issue unilaterally. Playing a game when the sun goes down is not such a novelty. Night games can help create the atmosphere that 'Sota is going for, whether it accompany fireworks, music, food... anything else for promotion or sales (historically weak within HC Athletics, but getting better under ADNP).
You really want the stadium full of raucous students? Seriously: (1) 3:00 PM or 5:00 PM kickoff, and (2) free beer.
Finally-- think back to the Hart Center in 2004 or 2005 for basketball. Small venue, no promotion, "concessions," PA systems we couldn't hear, six and a half cheerleaders, about 85 degrees on the thermostat (was there a thermostat?)... and the place was standing-room-only to the ceiling. Why? BECAUSE THE TEAM KICKED ASS.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Oct 27, 2016 16:46:36 GMT -5
Well put, WCHC. I attend law-school at a 1-A school, a behemoth in the sport. Do I follow their football team more than HC's? Probably, only because their is more coverage and ways to follow. I still follow HC, obviously. I still think of it as "my team." But I'm probably not as invested simply because the stakes are not as high nor was it as much a part of my undergrad experience as football has been in my law school experience (aka a much needed escape from the library). Similarly, in basketball, I grew up in Connecticut during the 90's. Many of the members of my extended family were UConn grads or had season tickets. It was almost impossible not to be a Huskies fan during that time. Still, whenever HC plays UConn in basketball, I of course root for HC. But for the most part, I'm able to separate the two. In both cases, football and basketball, I view them as two separate products. For people that remember UConn in the Yankee Conference days, that may be hard to grasp or feel like a cop out, but that is more or less the reality. And that was true for many of the students at HC, not necessarily my particular law school or UConn, but other large schools either where they are from or their parents attended.
Does this devalue HC's athletics? Not in my mind. I have a lot of pride for where HC fits in the athletic landscape. It's great having a mid-major basketball program to root for and to have an alma mater that plays the occasional FBS game and provides a reason to return to campus and tailgate. And I think that with football in particular, if tailgating was funner for students, then more would attend and be invested, and thus follow upon graduation. But the status quo is encouraging students to just party in their dorms and houses, or to study during the day so that they are free for any fun events that evening. So then it does not become a part of their college experience. If tailgating were the funnest thing to do every weekend, that wouldn't be the case.
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