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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 15:08:43 GMT -5
There was nothing unique about The Crusader being named Iggy at a Jesuit school. Iggy is a popular nickname for the mascot at several Jesuit Colleges and Universities: Iggy the Greyhound – mascot of Loyola University Maryland Iggy the Golden Eagle – mascot of Marquette University. Iggy the Lion – mascot of Loyola Marymount University. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_college_mascots_in_the_United_StatesNotice from the list, the mascots with their names for the most part are lower level D1, D2 and D3 institutions with some exceptions. Costumed Mascots on the sidelines are disappearing, with a slow and gradual erosion, as college and universities and changing their brand. Fairfield is an example, as Lucas the Stag, is being replaced by a red F logo. Old Guard at Fairfield seem upset, recent grads and current students don’t seem to mind. Paraphrasing the late former Jesuit, John McLaughlin ...... Bye, Bye, Lucas. |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2021 15:14:15 GMT -5
IMO mascots are less and less part of the presentation at major sporting events due to the rise in digital entertainment during breaks in the action. In the 20th century, at halftime or between innings, your options were to read a program, strike up conversation or continue looking at the field for non-game action. A mascot bumbling around would help fill this void. Now, during breaks, everyone is on their phone. So now the focus is on getting people to pay attention to a jumbotron by enticing them to take a picture and hashtag it on social media to have a chance to get on screen. And then at times a live cameraman will pan around a particular section -- in the past, people would wave when this took place and jump up and down at the delight of seeing themselves on the scoreboard. Now, the cameraman just films a bunch of people on their phones, and no one notices their on the big screen.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2021 15:23:39 GMT -5
I'm surprised the Cleveland Indian and Washington Redskin nicknames lasted so long, especially in DC, easily the most left-leaning major city in the United States. Long before today's more extreme "woke culture", these 2 came up in discussion periodically even when I was a kid in the 1990's. Would be an ESPN talking point for a couple weeks and then, poof, you wouldn't hear about it for a two years.
I believe it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's when a lot of college teams that went by "Indians" pivoted to other nicknames. Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John's (Redmen) and William & Mary are four off the top of my head.
Definitely time for Washington and Cleveland to move on from these generically offensive nicknames. I am totally on board with schools utilizing the name of a specific local tribe as long as that tribe continues to be OK with the nickname, insignia and mascot presentation. KC Chiefs and Atlanta Braves are fine as far as I'm concerned -- I don't see a need to go after these anytime soon. Removing Chief Wahoo and replacing the hat with the "C" looks awesome IMO. More of a classic early 20th century feel as opposed to a gimmicky 1970's Astro-Turf era look.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jul 24, 2021 15:46:51 GMT -5
My only complaint about this world of change that we live in is: not EVERTHING is broke. It sometimes feels like some people want to tear down everything and start completely over. It be one thing if we didn't have any other problems to deal with. But with all the crime and poverty and lack of basic collaboration between political parties, can't society get back to this later??
Sorry, rant is over. Had to vent. Carry on (My Wayward Sons).
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 16:12:06 GMT -5
Some of these issues are “broken windows” in a house that need to be fixed.
The Washington Football team as well as the Cleveland baseball team are examples that should have been corrected 50 years ago. Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John’s, and later William and Mary understood the issue that there was no honor in mockery. Stereotypes, regardless of ethnicity, continue to erode the fabric of a unified nation of immigrants.
Quoting one of my favorite groups, that I saw perform as the warm up band before Janice Joplin, Big Brother and the Holding Company, in 1968, The Chambers Brothers.....”Time Has Come Today “!
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jul 24, 2021 16:17:14 GMT -5
Crucis, should Notre Dame rid themselves of “the Fighting Irish”?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 16:39:50 GMT -5
TIf I was of that heritage, I would not find the depiction flattering to my family. splinternews.com/a-complete-history-of-the-phrase-paddy-wagon-the-survi-1793855618www.washingtonpost.com/news/posteverything/wp/2017/08/01/trumps-use-of-paddy-wagon-insults-irish-americans-like-me/Use of ethnicity as a mascot for a sports team often lead to mockery, that to members of that heritage, is used to taunt, berate, intimidate, and psychological abuse. I saw it often in my high school between the deeply entrenched Balkanized factions of the Irish, Italians, Polish, and Lithuanian populations who were unmercifully in their cruelty to each other. Needless to say, the remaining population of other ethnicities saw the same Psy Ops cruelty directed to them as well. There are many stories about the ND mascot nickname, one has it that a group of Irish students marched down to Notre Dame to a Klan Rally to bust up the Anti Catholic gathering in South Bend. Thus the nickname. There are other stories regarding the derivation of the nickname 247sports.com/college/notre-dame/Article/How-The-Fighting-Irish-Got-Their-Name-149026778/The use of an ethnic or cultural nickname at a school, tends to exclude identification and affinity to that institution by groups that are not of that ethnicity. Difficult to embrace the nickname as a moniker when you are being sent solicitation letters by the alumni or advancement office. Unfortunately there are many who are entrenched and stubborn that continue to look backwards and not forward regarding how it will play out to future student recruitment. Notre Dame, as well as all institutions that have an ethnocentric mascot should consider how its use effects students not from that heritage. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 24, 2021 16:42:20 GMT -5
The second statement doesn't jibe with your first statement. If, as you say, only the game matters, then as KY75 said, why do you keep all the ancillary things? Because, as you really know in your heart, while the game is important, so are all the other things to enhance the spirit of the school. In fact, why are all the various sports played and sponsored by Holy Cross and other colleges and universities? It is undoubtedly to enhance love and solidarity within the college community. Phreek has showed us six ways to Sunday that athletics are a drain on the College's financial resources. So, forget mascots, forget cheerleaders, forget even having teams. Why bother? You know why. And that's why I see you at most games. And if you think a mascot isn't important to the game, I have a couple of grandchildren you can debate this with (poor you, you'd have no chance!  ) BTW, a student in a foam costume is a LOT less expensive than a video board, the band and the cheerleaders. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 17:04:50 GMT -5
Between the lines is what I am at Fitton and Hart to see. I want to send the other teams whimpering back to their campus. 🤣
All the other activities are for entertainment and socialization and diversion during the lull in action for purposes of less serious fanatics to Holy Cross Athletics. As you know, top to bottom, if the team has Holy Cross on their Jersey, I will root for victory. Having attended games played by Holy Cross teams far away from campus, without Iggy, the band, or the give away bling, I was there to see the teams deliver a six pack of whoopa** against the competition. I want HC to be recognized as a premier institution. In this day, the primary vehicle is through athletic competition. The overwhelming majority of the population has never picked up or read the Chronicle of Higher Education or read documents from the Carnegie Foundation, so Athletics drives the bus for recognition.
So yes, the other aspects are because Holy Cross is in the entertainment business. However I don’t need no stinking mascots to enjoy Holy Cross Athletic competition.
By the way, my granddaughters, like their mother think mascots are silly 😝.
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 24, 2021 17:12:26 GMT -5
I'm surprised the Cleveland Indian and Washington Redskin nicknames lasted so long, especially in DC, easily the most left-leaning major city in the United States. Long before today's more extreme "woke culture", these 2 came up in discussion periodically even when I was a kid in the 1990's. Would be an ESPN talking point for a couple weeks and then, poof, you wouldn't hear about it for a two years. I believe it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's when a lot of college teams that went by "Indians" pivoted to other nicknames. Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John's (Redmen) and William & Mary are four off the top of my head. Definitely time for Washington and Cleveland to move on from these generically offensive nicknames. I am totally on board with schools utilizing the name of a specific local tribe as long as that tribe continues to be OK with the nickname, insignia and mascot presentation. KC Chiefs and Atlanta Braves are fine as far as I'm concerned -- I don't see a need to go after these anytime soon. Removing Chief Wahoo and replacing the hat with the "C" looks awesome IMO. More of a classic early 20th century feel as opposed to a gimmicky 1970's Astro-Turf era look. UMass led the way in 1972. The State Agricultural School teams were known as the "Statesmen" and the "Aggies" from their beginnings but in 1948 Mass. Agricultural became the University of Massachusetts and a student poll was taken to choose a new nickname. "Minutemen" was a finalist but "Redmen" won. In the spring of 1972 only one letter from a group of native Americans in upstate New York asking for the Redmen name to be changed was all it took for the school to comply with the request. By the end of the semester a new poll had been taken and "Minutemen" and "Minutewomen" (although I don't think there were any in 1775) won and now you know the rest of the story. |
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Post by sader1970 on Jul 24, 2021 17:14:56 GMT -5
Hopefully my last comment on this subject at least for another 6-12 months:
Of course mascots are “silly.” That’s part of the charm and one of the many reasons “Iggy” was there and why doing away with him was a ridiculous decision if anyone could associate foam-sworded Crusader with actual “blood-thirsty” Crusaders of old.
Crucis, May I suggest that you lobby the NCAA to prohibit all colleges and universities within its jurisdiction from having any mascots. They serve no purpose apparently and they could use those savings to pay the athletes.😉
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 24, 2021 17:19:05 GMT -5
I bet many mascots do get paid similar to a work study job in the library or dining hall, while athletes get torn ACLs and concussions for no pay. Something should be done.  |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 17:31:42 GMT -5
The St. Joe’s Hawk selection has become an annual application and interview process in which a current student is selected to represent the school. Since 1992, the student awarded the role of mascot has been recipient of an endowed scholarship and is considered a full member of the basketball team. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hawk_(Saint_Joseph%27s_University_mascot)I don’t have to lobby the NCAA. For many institutions, mascots will disappear and go the way of the DoDo. Scan the Athletic Websites regarding branding and the use of the 20th Century moniker today. When was the last time you saw a Harvard, Dartmouth, Penn, or Colgate cartoon character depiction of the institution? Fading fast to black....... as one hears the Director in a video before there is silence and the production is wrapped. |
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Post by mm67 on Jul 24, 2021 18:14:49 GMT -5
Anachronisms which appeal mainly to the superannuated anachronisms.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jul 24, 2021 18:40:26 GMT -5
Is the anti mascot initiative just another expression of wokeism?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 19:17:15 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Jul 24, 2021 19:34:24 GMT -5
Apparently there was a Cleveland professional baseball team in 1890 named the Cleveland Infants. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_Infants I don’t know if they had a (hairless?) mascot but the name doesn’t strike me as particularly intimidating. Fun Fact: The Cleveland Infants’ team colors (as noted in Wikipedia) were pink and blue. |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 24, 2021 19:56:00 GMT -5
"I'm tired of rock and rolling, I'm tired of being strange, I think I'll go bowling, I think I'll join the Grange." -Martin Mull |
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Post by longsuffering on Jul 24, 2021 19:56:54 GMT -5
Is the anti mascot initiative just another expression of wokeism? Yes. All mascots are now "sleepy." |
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 24, 2021 19:57:00 GMT -5
Is the anti mascot initiative just another expression of wokeism? I don't think so. Just cultural change I think. |
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jul 24, 2021 20:42:11 GMT -5
Is the anti mascot initiative just another expression of wokeism? Yes. All mascots are now "sleepy." How about “ Dopey”...... 🤣 |
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Post by bfoley82 on Jul 25, 2021 1:49:45 GMT -5
I'm surprised the Cleveland Indian and Washington Redskin nicknames lasted so long, especially in DC, easily the most left-leaning major city in the United States. Long before today's more extreme "woke culture", these 2 came up in discussion periodically even when I was a kid in the 1990's. Would be an ESPN talking point for a couple weeks and then, poof, you wouldn't hear about it for a two years. I believe it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's when a lot of college teams that went by "Indians" pivoted to other nicknames. Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John's (Redmen) and William & Mary are four off the top of my head. Definitely time for Washington and Cleveland to move on from these generically offensive nicknames. I am totally on board with schools utilizing the name of a specific local tribe as long as that tribe continues to be OK with the nickname, insignia and mascot presentation. KC Chiefs and Atlanta Braves are fine as far as I'm concerned -- I don't see a need to go after these anytime soon. Removing Chief Wahoo and replacing the hat with the "C" looks awesome IMO. More of a classic early 20th century feel as opposed to a gimmicky 1970's Astro-Turf era look. The problem with the Braves and Chiefs is the tomahawk chop. The Golden State Warriors moved away from their Native American heritage which was highly racist. logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Golden-State-Warriors-Logo-History.jpg |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jul 25, 2021 9:45:30 GMT -5
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Post by matunuck on Jul 25, 2021 20:03:56 GMT -5
bangordailynews.com/2021/07/23/news/bangor/penobscot-baseball-players-fans-hope-his-legacy-lives-on-with-cleveland-teams-name-change/Ed Rice, a baseball historian who wrote a book about Sockalexis, “Baseball’s First Indian: The Story of Penobscot Legend Louis Sockalexis,” met the news with some trepidation. “It becomes even more important now to make sure Louis’ legacy is remembered. I am afraid now that the Cleveland team will forget the history and let it fade into the background. I think it’s incredibly important now that Maine and Holy Cross do more to recognize that we had an extraordinary ball player who never got the respect he deserved,” Rice said....
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jul 26, 2021 7:00:20 GMT -5
I'm surprised the Cleveland Indian and Washington Redskin nicknames lasted so long, especially in DC, easily the most left-leaning major city in the United States. Long before today's more extreme "woke culture", these 2 came up in discussion periodically even when I was a kid in the 1990's. Would be an ESPN talking point for a couple weeks and then, poof, you wouldn't hear about it for a two years. I believe it was in the late 1970's and early 1980's when a lot of college teams that went by "Indians" pivoted to other nicknames. Dartmouth, Stanford, St. John's (Redmen) and William & Mary are four off the top of my head. Definitely time for Washington and Cleveland to move on from these generically offensive nicknames. I am totally on board with schools utilizing the name of a specific local tribe as long as that tribe continues to be OK with the nickname, insignia and mascot presentation. KC Chiefs and Atlanta Braves are fine as far as I'm concerned -- I don't see a need to go after these anytime soon. Removing Chief Wahoo and replacing the hat with the "C" looks awesome IMO. More of a classic early 20th century feel as opposed to a gimmicky 1970's Astro-Turf era look. The problem with the Braves and Chiefs is the tomahawk chop. The Golden State Warriors moved away from their Native American heritage which was highly racist. logos-world.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Golden-State-Warriors-Logo-History.jpgGood point. I think the Braves already nixed that didn't they? Tomahawk Chop probably needs to go but the names are fine. Could easily tie them to firefighting as opposed to Native American war legacy. |
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