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Post by hc87 on Oct 30, 2016 10:51:20 GMT -5
The overall drop-off of attendance is a result of the myriad of reasons we've discussed here in a macro-sense (tv/internet, societal/family obligations on Sat etc etc) coupled with HC dropping scholarships, more draconian tail-gate policies (which have happened everywhere but I think it's exacerbated at a smaller school like HC), no real improvement in the fan experience at Fitton (no jumbotron, chair-backs etc). Kind of a double whammy. I also think you can't overlook that HC has now been co-ed for ovah 40 years now too. I'm not proposing a return to an all male HC by any stretch, just that, comparing 2016 to 1986, there were probably many more HC alumni then who followed or supported HC at Fitton on a weekly basis than there is today. I knew/know many alumna who followed HC football, I just think it has to be somewhat of a drop-off overall.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 30, 2016 11:03:08 GMT -5
2010, I would assume your father graduated circa 1980 +/- and that was a whole other time for colleges and universities. Probably pre-dated MADD and alcohol on campuses were more laissez-faire. While I was already 10 years out and not attending games at Fitton due to distance, I am guessing that while kegs were probably not allowed, "brown bags" and personal flasks were not searched by a much less vigilant security that was the predecessor of Holy Cross police and the current black garbed ninja warriors.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 30, 2016 11:11:17 GMT -5
2010, I would assume your father graduated circa 1980 +/- and that was a whole other time for colleges and universities. Probably pre-dated MADD and alcohol on campuses were more laissez-faire. While I was already 10 years out and not attending games at Fitton due to distance, I am guessing that while kegs were probably not allowed, "brown bags" and personal flasks were not searched by a much less vigilant security that was the predecessor of Holy Cross police and the current black garbed ninja warriors. Universities need to go back in time and pump the brakes on their "War on Kegs", "War on Drinking Games" and "War on Hard Alcohol". Fully enforcing the 21+ drinking age is one thing but the attempts by administration to regulate how, in what forms and through which vessels adult beverages are consumed have been a complete....
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 30, 2016 11:19:52 GMT -5
2010, I would assume your father graduated circa 1980 +/- and that was a whole other time for colleges and universities. Probably pre-dated MADD and alcohol on campuses were more laissez-faire. While I was already 10 years out and not attending games at Fitton due to distance, I am guessing that while kegs were probably not allowed, "brown bags" and personal flasks were not searched by a much less vigilant security that was the predecessor of Holy Cross police and the current black garbed ninja warriors. Universities need to go back in time and pump the brakes on their "War on Kegs", "War on Drinking Games" and "War on Hard Alcohol". Fully enforcing the 21+ drinking age is one thing but the attempts by administration to regulate how, in what forms and through which vessels adult beverages are consumed have been a complete.... In that regard, Fairfield cracked down on alcohol on campus - especially at the start of the academic year. To that end they set up separate dorms for new students and tried to keep frosh away from the upper classmen at social events. That year, the number of cases of alcohol poisoning jumped sharply. It was junior and senior students who cautioned their younger counterparts to avoid excessive drinking and for the girls to not take a drink they did to see poured themselves. IIRC, the policy of strict enforcement was loosened the following year.
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Post by sarasota on Oct 30, 2016 12:08:51 GMT -5
sader1970- "black garbed ninja warriors".......excellent!
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 30, 2016 13:36:33 GMT -5
I think I plagerized that
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Post by hchoops on Oct 30, 2016 15:23:15 GMT -5
bringbackcaro -- great point regarding the baseball crowds we used to get in 07/08/09 when we got warm weather days in late April. I was at all of those. I think the school was so happy with the student support that they must've instructed Public Safety not to bother us (because they really didn't). I regrettably haven't caught a HC home baseball game since I graduated but hope this has continued. When my dad was in college, also at an FCS/1-AA school, they used to bring kegs into the student section at the football stadium. His fraternity did not miss a game in the four years he was there. Start the games later, let the students bring beer in and have their own section and they'll show up and support the Crusaders. This may be against NCAA Regs
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 30, 2016 17:35:34 GMT -5
bringbackcaro -- great point regarding the baseball crowds we used to get in 07/08/09 when we got warm weather days in late April. I was at all of those. I think the school was so happy with the student support that they must've instructed Public Safety not to bother us (because they really didn't). I regrettably haven't caught a HC home baseball game since I graduated but hope this has continued. When my dad was in college, also at an FCS/1-AA school, they used to bring kegs into the student section at the football stadium. His fraternity did not miss a game in the four years he was there. Start the games later, let the students bring beer in and have their own section and they'll show up and support the Crusaders. This may be against NCAA Regs
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Post by hchoops on Oct 30, 2016 18:22:03 GMT -5
This may be against NCAA Regs Political police alert !
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Post by sarasota on Oct 30, 2016 23:43:21 GMT -5
Why the hell should the Monopoly NCAA have any involvement with alcohol and college football fans?
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Post by timholycross on Oct 31, 2016 7:06:19 GMT -5
They don't...only events they are in charge of, like the NCAA hoop tournament.
This has been covered before. BU has (or does) sell beer at ballgames and they own outright the places I've seen it sold at.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 31, 2016 9:56:12 GMT -5
Some more to ponder on attendance.
I looked at attendance at four schools, listed below. Three of which have worse winter weather than Worcester. These three schools are all relatively isolated, are located in significantly smaller-sized communities. Because of their relative isolation, there are fewer distractions, and I would think their remoteness tends to keep students in the local community most weekends (no shuttles to Boston). On a community basis, sports are not competing with other schools, or professional teams. It's either Dartmouth or nothing.
Total enrollment
Cornell 21900 (Ithaca campus only) Dartmouth 6350 Holy Cross 2900 Colgate 2875 ___________________ Average attendance football 2015
Cornell 8125 Dartmouth 6600 Holy Cross 6523 (Holy Cross highest as a percentage of total enrollment) Colgate 5002 __________________ Average attendance M basketball 2015-16
Cornell 1655 Holy Cross 1611 Dartmouth 811 Colgate 791 __________________ Average attendance M ice hockey 2015-16
Cornell 4022 Dartmouth 2372 Colgate 1599 Holy Cross 1060 ________________ Average attendance M basketball M ice hockey combined 2015-16
Cornell 5677 (27 percent of total enrollment) Dartmouth 3183 (48 percent of total enrollment) Holy Cross 2671 (92 percent of total enrollment) Colgate 2390 (84 percent of total enrollment) ______________________________ I think it a very fair question whether HC could ever achieve an average attendance of a combined 5,000 for men's basketball and men's ice hockey, in the present environment of generally declining attendance. Whatever level of support there is in Worcester for HC winter sports, its hard for me to see how that support would generate 5,000 average attendance two nights a week during most of the winter That's about 175 percent of total HC enrollment. (Assumes one men's basketball and one men's ice hockey home game a week.)
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Post by beaven302 on Oct 31, 2016 13:08:10 GMT -5
Does that mean HC is so bad that one has to be drunk to watch it? Drunk for the game? This brings to mind my son's experiences while visiting Penn State on "Game Day." While a Bucknell student, he and a few friends would sometimes go stay at the Penn State chapter of their frat on a football weekend. He reported that the members started drinking early on Saturday and were drunk or high by game time. Recently, I happened to repeat this story to a law student who had attended Penn State and she confirmed that this was the case. In contrast, when I visited my cousin, a Notre Dame senior, on football weekends in 1968, the students were sober during the game, and any descent into inebriation took place on Saturday night.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2016 13:43:00 GMT -5
302, That game vs Saturday night is an important distinction. Thanks.
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Post by sarasota on Oct 31, 2016 13:56:12 GMT -5
I suppose we ought to give thanks that it's booze and not cocaine, etc. In retrospect over the years, I looked back on my drinking escapades in high school and college believing they taught me how to drink and how not to drink. I never told my kids this, afraid that they would take it as permission for them to drink. Two daughters did drink but the third, a world class athlete, did not, to my knowledge. When they were in high school we told them if we ever found out they got in a car with a drunk driver we'd beat the hell out of them. Thank god when we survive youth drinking.
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Post by jkh67 on Oct 31, 2016 15:07:31 GMT -5
On the question of booze at college football games, two Yale grads who played on the defensive line back in the 1990s invited me and my son-in-law (a West Point grad) to the Yale-Army game at the Bowl a few years back. The home stands featured a full service bar from which liquid refreshments were readily dispensed throughout the game (won by the Eli in OT...much to the chagrin of my son-in-law...thanks to Yale's transfer QB from Clemson). I didn't think the NCAA allowed such things, but it was a very nice touch, I must say!
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Post by ncaam on Oct 31, 2016 15:57:40 GMT -5
Is the money HC is spending on "marketing" a waste?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 31, 2016 18:34:15 GMT -5
Is the money HC is spending on "marketing" a waste? IMO, no. Without marketing HC would largely disappear from view because Massachusetts media in the eastern half of the state give so little coverage to college sports these days. __________________________ Comparing average attendance for M basketball and M ice hockey, as a percentage of undergraduate enrollment (not total enrollment as was done in the previous post). Boston College 92 percent (59 percent of total enrollment) Boston University 31 percent Holy Cross 92 percent Providence College is the only institution in New England where combined average attendance for M's basketball and M's ice hockey exceeds 100 percent of total enrollment. And as HC87 noted, Providence has a large subway alumni following in RI and SE Mass, and have had such for decades (anteceding the Big East.)
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Attendance
Oct 31, 2016 19:16:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2016 19:16:47 GMT -5
So my takeaway from this is that if we want success in terms of athletic attendance is to admit only students from Massachusetts ( even better, Worcester) maybe Connecticut and Rhode Island.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 31, 2016 19:18:45 GMT -5
Regarding hockey attendance phreek, doesn't our rink only hold 1200? The 1060 figure actually isn't terrible. All the hockey games I've attended in Worcester as an alum have been almost completely full.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 3, 2016 16:07:33 GMT -5
Regarding hockey attendance phreek, doesn't our rink only hold 1200? The 1060 figure actually isn't terrible. All the hockey games I've attended in Worcester as an alum have been almost completely full. Seating at the rink, after this summer's renovations, is under 1,200. The 1,400 number likely inclides standing room.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 3, 2016 18:13:09 GMT -5
Regarding hockey attendance phreek, doesn't our rink only hold 1200? The 1060 figure actually isn't terrible. All the hockey games I've attended in Worcester as an alum have been almost completely full. Seating at the rink, after this summer's renovations, is under 1,200. The 1,400 number likely inclides standing room. From the drawings, seated capacity is given as about 860, including wheelchairs. Total capacity, 1220. However, that total may not include standing room at rink level on the east and south sides. The north side rink levels has wheelchair stations.
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