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Post by purplehaze on Sept 14, 2021 12:00:42 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 14, 2021 22:07:59 GMT -5
Egads. What a long depressing descent. All the financial ills of big time college sports laid bare. Borrowing so much to take a whooping in the Big Ten is akin to UConn Paying HC $425,000 to get their butts kicked.
All these schools have an Ediface Complex when it comes to the amenities arms race. The greater fool rule is in full effect. Build sperate M&W practice facilities if you have money to burn but they won't win you any games and they won't sell any tickets.
And Rutgers dropped six sports to take this drubbing.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 14, 2021 23:28:09 GMT -5
Egads. What a long depressing descent. All the financial ills of big time college sports laid bare. Borrowing so much to take a whooping in the Big Ten is akin to UConn Paying HC $425,000 to get their butts kicked. All these schools have an Ediface Complex when it comes to the amenities arms race. The greater fool rule is in full effect. Build sperate M&W practice facilities if you have money to burn but they won't win you any games and they won't sell any tickets. And Rutgers dropped six sports to take this drubbing.I haven't been following this story but the bolded statement says a lot to me--just so, so sad a situation,. Who has the arms race and conference realignment benefitted--certainly not the athletes and fans. I guess some elite athletes benefit from nicer facilities but look at all the shortcomings in terms of sports dropped/reduced opportunities for athletes, ludicrous travel schedules for teams, reduced opportunity for most fans to follow their teams. etc, etc. Conferences should be regional--as they once were-better for everybody
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Post by Tom on Sept 15, 2021 7:42:30 GMT -5
Travel schedules are irrelevant of you don't require the players to deal with pesky details like classes and academics. Once upon a time the BC girls soccer team's longest road trip was Georgetown. When they first joined the ACC, the shortest trip was Maryland. No more academically easy trips to PC and UConn. I pick on BC 1) because it's fun and 2) I think they started the trend of jumping to a poor geographic fitting conference
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Post by timholycross on Sept 15, 2021 8:18:42 GMT -5
Rutgers' situation, in this case due to a situation beyond its control; can only be worse after the full effects of the pandemic play out.
Those who want us in a higher profile conference (none are on the horizon, hockey only, perhaps, but a longshot) have to understand the resources it takes to make a jump. Clearly Rutgers did not.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 15, 2021 8:28:25 GMT -5
Rutgers' situation, in this case due to a situation beyond its control; can only be worse after the full effects of the pandemic play out. I have to disagree with this. The main expense when those sports were changed to club status was to build an additional box for recruits and their families. That was clearly the school's choice.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 15, 2021 8:45:11 GMT -5
I remember reading a couple of years ago that Rutgers was forced to make cuts to its academic program to help mitigate the debt incurred by expenses for athletics. (new football facility) If my memory serves correctly(no sure thing) cuts were made in various areas such as lab instruction and class sizes were larger. Hopefully, this "dog wags the tail" scenario has changed. Better yet, if I'm in error. Would appreciate any current info/correction. m
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 15, 2021 8:52:12 GMT -5
Rutgers' contribution to collegiate athletics topped out in 1869 having played the first football (soccer?) game vs. Princeton but even that looks a little fuzzy. Per wiki:
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Post by mm67 on Sept 15, 2021 9:02:51 GMT -5
Back in the day my NJ friends would lament "Nobody wants to die for dear old Rutgers."
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Post by timholycross on Sept 15, 2021 9:17:38 GMT -5
Rutgers' situation, in this case due to a situation beyond its control; can only be worse after the full effects of the pandemic play out. I have to disagree with this. The main expense when those sports were changed to club status was to build an additional box for recruits and their families. That was clearly the school's choice. I meant that the pandemic is only going to make the bottom line worse in the next couple years. The mismanagement w/o the pandemic is bad enough on its own, of course.
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Post by matunuck on Sept 15, 2021 9:19:10 GMT -5
BC's grad rate for athletes rivals HC's so let's deep-six the notion that joining the ACC has diminished their academic standing. It hasn't.
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Post by timholycross on Sept 15, 2021 9:20:44 GMT -5
Back in the day my NJ friends would lament "Nobody wants to die for dear old Rutgers." You'll note another school that seems to be lagging behind in revenues is Maryland (maybe MD's more solvent, at least). Perhaps the Big 10's expansion to the East chose the wrong targets and/or covering TV markets doesn't mean as much as it used to.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 15, 2021 10:36:09 GMT -5
Sensational article that tells a really lamentable story, though the writers need some lessons on how to format graphs.
Question for those who know New Jersey better than I do--what kind of following from state residents does Rutgers have as compared to Ohio State or Iowa or Wisconsin? Do little kids in New Jersey dream of growing up to play for Rutgers? Does Rutgers have a big in-state radio network plus daily radio talk shows devoted just to Rutgers? I think I know the answers.....
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Post by princetoncrusader on Sept 15, 2021 11:02:50 GMT -5
What a fascinating and at the same time depressing article to read as a long-time NJ taxpayer. Some personal reflections--I went to my first HC football game as an alum in the fall of 1979, when HC played RU at a modest stadium in Piscataway which had Ivy in the endzone. I believe capacity was 28,000. I don't recall what I paid for the ticket, but I do remember parking in a field near the stadium. Neil Wheelwright's Crusaders got shutout that day, but it was still a pleasant afternoon. In 2018, I went to see Northwestern, where I went to business school years ago, take on the Scarlet Knights at a modern but utilitarian looking stadium. I paid $50 for a ticket in the corner of the stadium and $25 to park by the RAC, which includes a "free" 15 minute bus ride to the stadium. My wife had to check her handbag in a locker for a $10 fee as it was deemed too large by one of the security guys. So it was an expensive day. I don't recall the official attendance, but the stadium looked to be less than half full with hardly any RU students in the end zone. The Wildcats won that day in a highly competitive game. Walking back to the car, I noted the bubble that serves as an indoor practice facility. I believe RU still has a radio contract with WOR out of NYC and at least one local station. They obviously don't have much of a fan base, although basketball now regularly sell out. Will be interesting to see how this plays out, but I don't have much confidence in NJ politicians and/or well paid bureaucrats to remedy the situation.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 15, 2021 11:43:45 GMT -5
Rutgers has a modest, but dedicated, following. They would be glad to support Rutgers going into debt - one that keeps growing. They are trying to build that fan base, but not much luck other than the on-campus students.
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Post by mm67 on Sept 15, 2021 15:58:56 GMT -5
What is the undergraduate student enrollment at Rutgers? 20,000?
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 15, 2021 16:06:07 GMT -5
What is the undergraduate student enrollment at Rutgers? 20,000? 35,844 in New Brunswick.
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Post by Ignutz on Sept 15, 2021 16:11:16 GMT -5
If my numbers are correct, Alma Mater's endowment per student is nearly 15x that of THE State University of New Jersey.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 15, 2021 16:51:06 GMT -5
Also, HC has as many if not more athletes, over 700.
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 15, 2021 18:45:07 GMT -5
Also, HC has as many if not more athletes, over 700. Holy Cross had 720 student athletes according to the latest EADA data and Rutgers had 732.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 15, 2021 19:40:59 GMT -5
Also, HC has as many if not more athletes, over 700. ...and all HC athletes can read.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 15, 2021 21:43:30 GMT -5
Also, HC has as many if not more athletes, over 700. Holy Cross had 720 student athletes according to the latest EADA data and Rutgers had 732. My facts are different from your alternate facts. My search saw the followings data: College of the Holy Cross Sports-Related Financial Aid A total number of 889 student athletes participate in varsity sports at the school, 438 of whom are male and 451 are female. They receive, on average, about $14,071 in sports-related student aid to attend Holy Cross. www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-the-holy-cross/student-life/sports/By the way, I want to see the travel cost of Patriot League teams vs The Big East teams. Teams traveling by back and forth to Milwaukee, Chicago, Omaha and Indianapolis, from Providence, Philly, NYC, Washington, etc must really be racking up the air miles and dollars.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 15, 2021 22:19:02 GMT -5
Back in the day my NJ friends would lament "Nobody wants to die for dear old Rutgers." They bleed red in New Brunswick, but it's due to biology, not Rutgers.🙂
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 15, 2021 22:23:58 GMT -5
Holy Cross had 720 student athletes according to the latest EADA data and Rutgers had 732. My facts are different from your alternate facts. My search saw the followings data: College of the Holy Cross Sports-Related Financial Aid A total number of 889 student athletes participate in varsity sports at the school, 438 of whom are male and 451 are female. They receive, on average, about $14,071 in sports-related student aid to attend Holy Cross. www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-the-holy-cross/student-life/sports/By the way, I want to see the travel cost of Patriot League teams vs The Big East teams. Teams traveling by back and forth to Milwaukee, Chicago, Omaha and Indianapolis, from Providence, Philly, NYC, Washington, etc must really be racking up the air miles and dollars. Is sports-related student aid the same as an athletic scholarship?
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 15, 2021 23:31:38 GMT -5
Holy Cross had 720 student athletes according to the latest EADA data and Rutgers had 732. My facts are different from your alternate facts. My search saw the followings data: College of the Holy Cross Sports-Related Financial Aid A total number of 889 student athletes participate in varsity sports at the school, 438 of whom are male and 451 are female. They receive, on average, about $14,071 in sports-related student aid to attend Holy Cross. www.collegefactual.com/colleges/college-of-the-holy-cross/student-life/sports/By the way, I want to see the travel cost of Patriot League teams vs The Big East teams. Teams traveling by back and forth to Milwaukee, Chicago, Omaha and Indianapolis, from Providence, Philly, NYC, Washington, etc must really be racking up the air miles and dollars. The EADA information is what the school shares with the federal government. I am not double or triple counting athletes like you are for the Indoor/Outdoor Track and Field and Cross Country teams. Plus football players running track or the odd Soccer player on the softball team etc. You might want to learn how to use it as all the information you want is included. ope.ed.gov/athletics/#/
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