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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 13:39:14 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 26, 2016 14:05:20 GMT -5
Which HC player would you have placed over any of the guys on the first team? Maybe Champion over Jones?
I think being pegged for fourth is accurate, too.
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Post by lou on Oct 26, 2016 14:10:20 GMT -5
I'm sure they just forgot that Malachi outplayed everyone during the PL tourney, and was voted MVP
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 14:22:27 GMT -5
Which HC player would you have placed over any of the guys on the first team? Maybe Champion over Jones? Malachi
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 26, 2016 14:25:49 GMT -5
I'm sure they just forgot that Malachi outplayed everyone during the PL tourney, and was voted MVP We humans tend to remember pleasure and try to forget pain. This seems to prove hat hypothesis. Besides, post-season honors far outweigh those of the pre-season.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 14:30:07 GMT -5
The coaches and SIDS must think that those four game were a fluke
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 26, 2016 14:33:26 GMT -5
The coaches and SIDS must think that those four game were a fluke To be precise...FOUR straight flukes.
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Post by ncaam on Oct 26, 2016 15:02:09 GMT -5
Only 10 conference wins last year, plus injuries on the Hill always seem to hurt us, a team without much depth. 4th might be a reach. Malachi got the shaft.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 15:11:37 GMT -5
Malachi is behind Jones only in ppg--12.0 to 11.8 Malachi beats him in rebounds, assists, fg %, 3 Pt %(Malachi--2nd in PL), some categories in which Jones is not even in the PL top 15. in most of these categories it is not even close. And of course, as Lou points out, Malachi was the PLT MVP what were the voters thinking ?
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 26, 2016 15:29:13 GMT -5
Win Shares, 2015-16 (players returning this season)
Tim Kempton, 4.0 Kahron Ross, 3.5 Stephen Brown, 3.4 MALACHI ALEXANDER, 3.3 Shawn Anderson, 3.3
Austin Price, 3.1 Eric Fanning, 2.8 Sean O'Brien, 2.7 KARL CHARLES, 2.5 Jace Hogan, 2.4 ROB CHAMPION, 2.4
Delante Jones, 1.4 Nana Foulland, 1.3
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 26, 2016 15:31:54 GMT -5
Malachi is behind Jones only in ppg--12.0 to 11.8 Malachi beats him in rebounds, assists, fg %, 3 Pt %(Malachi--2nd in PL), some categories in which Jones is not even in the PL top 15. in most of these categories it is not even close. And of course, as Lou points out, Malachi was the PLT MVP what were the voters thinking ? That Jones was a freshman last year and has higher upside than Malachi? That averaging 14.2 PPG over the course of the entire PL slate and winning Rookie of the Year is a better barometer for this year than 4 games in the PL Tournament?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 26, 2016 15:53:49 GMT -5
Jones should not have been chosen over Karl Charles as ROY--in my opinion.
Ken Pomeroy's "ORating" (and I know there are other aspects to the game beyond offense)
Del Jones: 94.2
Karl Charles: 102.1
Malachi Alexander: 109.0
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 26, 2016 16:03:34 GMT -5
The good news is that our guys won't be settling into any complacency mode after winning the tournament.
I think it'll be a good thing for them to have a little chip on their shoulders and to want to show that those last 5 games were not a fluke but rather the start of a long-term trend.
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Post by HC92 on Oct 26, 2016 16:33:16 GMT -5
Could not care less about pre-season awards. Let's win our awards at the end of the year.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 16:46:04 GMT -5
Malachi is behind Jones only in ppg--12.0 to 11.8 Malachi beats him in rebounds, assists, fg %, 3 Pt %(Malachi--2nd in PL), some categories in which Jones is not even in the PL top 15. in most of these categories it is not even close. And of course, as Lou points out, Malachi was the PLT MVP what were the voters thinking ? That Jones was a freshman last year and has higher upside than Malachi? That averaging 14.2 PPG over the course of the entire PL slate and winning Rookie of the Year is a better barometer for this year than 4 games in the PL Tournament? So choosing a soph over a senior with much better stats, (those stats I quoted were for the entire season, not just the last 4 games or only the PL), based on perceived "higher upside" is logical ? and Imo MVP of the PLT is more significant than ROY. Mal won it over the POY.
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Post by zambonihomie13 on Oct 26, 2016 17:10:57 GMT -5
The good news is that our guys won't be settling into any complacency mode after winning the tournament. I think it'll be a good thing for them to have a little chip on their shoulders and to want to show that those last 5 games were not a fluke but rather the start of a long-term trend. +1. Pre-season awards are nothing but bulletin board material. Hopefully this adds some motivation.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 17:15:16 GMT -5
I generally agree about the little significance of pre season stuff, but the fact that coaches make up half of the voters, in Malachi's case is particularly puzzling
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Post by bison137 on Oct 26, 2016 17:26:36 GMT -5
That Jones was a freshman last year and has higher upside than Malachi? That averaging 14.2 PPG over the course of the entire PL slate and winning Rookie of the Year is a better barometer for this year than 4 games in the PL Tournament? So choosing a soph over a senior with much better stats, (those stats I quoted were for the entire season, not just the last 4 games or only the PL), based on perceived "higher upside" is logical ? and Imo MVP of the PLT is more significant than ROY. Mal won it over the POY. Since the coaches are picking this year's team, not last year's team, I think higher upside is very logical. As for tourney MVP, that automatically goes to a player on the winning team, so it isn't a comparison of MA to Kempton or anyone else. I probably would have voted for MA, but I think it's close. Hankerson has as good a case for being wrongfully omitted.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 17:41:14 GMT -5
But is not the voting based on last year's performance, not on perceived potential, which is basically guess work ? Malachi's performance, statistically speaking, was far superior to Jones in all categories except 12 to 11.8 ppg. Again, imo, the MVP of the PLT, even though it goes to a player on the winning team, is a more impressive award than the RoY.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 26, 2016 17:58:45 GMT -5
Malachi's play was a prime reason he was on the winning team (and thus in line to be MVP). I doubt he is losing much sleep over this, and neither am I - I want the guys to have that chip.
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Post by bison137 on Oct 26, 2016 18:14:33 GMT -5
But is not the voting based on last year's performance, not on perceived potential, which is basically guess work ? Malachi's performance, statistically speaking, was far superior to Jones in all categories except 12 to 11.8 ppg. Again, imo, the MVP of the PLT, even though it goes to a player on the winning team, is a more impressive award than the RoY. 1. No, it is NOT based on last year's performance. It is the five players the coaches think will be the best this year. 2. Using last year's stats, when you are comparing a freshman to a junior, is fairly meaningless. Also remember that Jones was much better in the second half of the season.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 26, 2016 18:20:39 GMT -5
But is not the voting based on last year's performance, not on perceived potential, which is basically guess work ? And one could argue that we can make an even more educated guess about MA's senior "potential" based on the persistent trajectory established in the larger sample size of his first three seasons. MA Stats (Freshman, Sophomore, Junior)
MPG. 21.5, 25.3, 32.8
PTS. 6.3, 8.4, 11.8
FG%. 39.0, 43.4, 47.1 EFG%. 40.7, 49.2, 55.6
RPG. 4.2, 5.0, 5.6 APG. 1.0, 1.0, 2.8 Worth noting, too, that rookie performance has not always been an indicator of future accolades. Four Holy Cross players earned ROY during the last 15 years - none ever made 1st or 2nd team PL during their careers.
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Post by sarasota on Oct 26, 2016 19:27:54 GMT -5
I agree with the chip-on-the-shoulder thing. So I love this pre-season ranking. There is real respect you get from winning and fake respect from polls. Play with that chip on your shoulders, guys! Revenge is oh so sweet.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 26, 2016 19:29:49 GMT -5
But is not the voting based on last year's performance, not on perceived potential, which is basically guess work ? Malachi's performance, statistically speaking, was far superior to Jones in all categories except 12 to 11.8 ppg. Again, imo, the MVP of the PLT, even though it goes to a player on the winning team, is a more impressive award than the RoY. 1. No, it is NOT based on last year's performance. It is the five players the coaches think will be the best this year. This is not a contradiction. how do the coaches determine who will be the 5 best this season ? might last year and previous year's performances, as WooGray points out, be factors ?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 26, 2016 19:52:43 GMT -5
Here's another way of looking at this: Jones, a fine player no doubt, would have to improve significantly to have as good a season this season as MA had last season and, on top of that, we should expect MA to move forward from last year.. Selecting Jones over MA is baffling
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