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Post by dadominate on Sept 25, 2021 6:19:04 GMT -5
And what is wrong with a P5 conference or any conference looking to schedule teams that they have not in the past? A great opportunity for a school and its fans to see another team in a location non traditional to its usual and often boring repetition of teams year in and year out. there's obviously nothing wrong with a P5 conference scheduling smaller conference schools... and you absolutely know (at least i hope you do) that nobody is objecting to that as a more general trend of P5 road games against low-major schools would be a great thing for college basketball. what the objection is that this is nothing more than a pathetic optics play from the P5 schools. there is nearly 0% chance of them losing to any of those teams, and if they do somehow lose, their PR teams will have a field day of giving a HBCU the chance that nobody else did in the name of equity or some such nonsense. more importantly... do you or anyone else actually think syracuse and PAC-12 will be playing at holy cross or any other school outside of the optics of "diversity" and "inclusion" that the MEAC or SWAC provide? does anyone honestly think this will last beyond the current hyperracialized environment or extend to other low-major conferences like the NEC, MAAC, or PL that do not provide the same equity story? this is a PR move, pure and simple.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 25, 2021 7:06:16 GMT -5
Was that ever in doubt? It is a PR move (possibly to get publicity to offset the barrage of articles about the SEC?) and it is a good one.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 25, 2021 8:03:09 GMT -5
And what is wrong with an outreach and a spotlight (optics) for diversity and inclusion to schools that have been ignored by the majority of the NCAA conferences regarding scheduling. It is certainly a concept that is long overdue to be embraced across the spectrum of activities in U.S. society after a history of stratification, Balkanization and segregation in education, housing, athletics, religion, medical care, funeral services etc. Throughout society, mankind, not just in the US, but across the globe, has lived in a “hyper racially driven” environment. Tribalism is engrained.
Not sure why the there is perceived animosity towards the Pac 12 or any institution in providing a positive light regarding their attempt to bridge the stratification in scheduling. Why the strong opposition? Seems unwarranted.
Marketing and Public Relations is essential to the viability of any entity. From an individual who has posted their Resume on LinkedIn, to Apple launching a campaign for the new IPhone. Growing the brand in a positive light is necessary for financial success. It is a concept that HC for too long has neglected, and that Notre Dame has mastered. HC should aggressively recognize how our Public image is deficient to our peers and make the required changes. Maybe our admission applications and USNWR ratings would improve.
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Post by Tom on Sept 25, 2021 9:00:04 GMT -5
I would never make it in marketing.
I'm all in favor of going out and doing good things. I'm not a big fan of then getting on a soapbox to pat myself on the back and tell the world to look and see how great I am for doing something good. It might be a smart thing to do. Town and gown relations in Worcester might be better if HC stood on the soapbox and advertised all the wonderful volunteering the students do in the city of Worcester. Just not my preferred style
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Post by HC92 on Sept 25, 2021 9:27:28 GMT -5
Has Syracuse actually committed to playing road games against these schools in either football or men’s basketball? The only thing I saw with any specifics about scheduling commitments was this paragraph:
“The agreement was announced Thursday. The first game in the partnership features the Syracuse women's basketball team hosting Morgan State in November. A contract also has been signed for Syracuse to play Morgan State in football in 2029. The goal is to schedule up to 50 contests involving several sports.”
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 25, 2021 10:14:37 GMT -5
OK, changed my mind. I think the Holy Cross campus is woke being that the folks atop Mt. St. James seem to be "actively aware of important facts and issues."
Raise your hand if you think the students should not be attentive to important facts and issues.
[Still hate the term as it is almost always used as a pejorative]
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Post by dadominate on Sept 25, 2021 10:42:24 GMT -5
And what is wrong with an outreach and a spotlight (optics) for diversity and inclusion to schools that have been ignored by the majority of the NCAA conferences regarding scheduling. how have the meac and swac been any more ignored by the majority of NCAA conferences than other low-major conferences such as the patriot league, maac, america east, nec, etc.?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 25, 2021 11:54:30 GMT -5
Seems as if you are forgetting the history of segregation in sports.
USC, a PAC 8 school, (before the PAC became the Pac10, and now the PAC 12) and the late Sam Cunningham playing Alabama in 1970, provide the impetus for Bear Bryant to reshape the Southeast Conference.
The impact of Texas Western basketball team winning the 1966 NCAA vs Kentucky also led to SEC teams realizing that it’s segregationist past needed to change. With the change in the demographics of these teams, they provided a conduit for a less segregated society.
Teams from the MEAC and SWAC have been an outlier regarding cross scheduling with major conferences. I do not see the logic to your opposition to this scheduling alliance. It is a good business decision for the athletic departments. Follow the money.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 25, 2021 12:00:13 GMT -5
And what is wrong with an outreach and a spotlight (optics) for diversity and inclusion to schools that have been ignored by the majority of the NCAA conferences regarding scheduling. It is certainly a concept that is long overdue to be embraced across the spectrum of activities in U.S. society after a history of stratification, Balkanization and segregation in education, housing, athletics, religion, medical care, funeral services etc. Throughout society, mankind, not just in the US, but across the globe, has lived in a “hyper racially driven” environment. Tribalism is engrained. Not sure why the there is perceived animosity towards the Pac 12 or any institution in providing a positive light regarding their attempt to bridge the stratification in scheduling. Why the strong opposition? Seems unwarranted. Marketing and Public Relations is essential to the viability of any entity. From an individual who has posted their Resume on LinkedIn, to Apple launching a campaign for the new IPhone. Growing the brand in a positive light is necessary for financial success. It is a concept that HC for too long has neglected, and that Notre Dame has mastered. HC should aggressively recognize how our Public image is deficient to our peers and make the required changes. Maybe our admission applications and USNWR ratings would improve. HC has devoted resources to PR/Communications but they haven't had a great "hook" to draw in positive attention from the public. Without being a research University we don't have as much to interest the world as some fine institutions do. As a result, the main audience for positive HC communication is the alumni, students and families. That has been effective in the sense that HC has high alumni contribution rates and high student retention and graduation rates.
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Post by dadominate on Sept 25, 2021 12:24:54 GMT -5
Seems as if you are forgetting the history of segregation in sports. USC, a PAC 8 school, (before the PAC became the Pac10, and now the PAC 12) and the late Sam Cunningham playing Alabama in 1970, provide the impetus for Bear Bryant to reshape the Southeast Conference. The impact of Texas Western basketball team winning the 1966 NCAA vs Kentucky also led to SEC teams realizing that it’s segregationist past needed to change. With the change in the demographics of these teams, they provided a conduit for a less segregated society. Teams from the MEAC and SWAC have been an outlier regarding cross scheduling with major conferences. I do not see the logic to your opposition to this scheduling alliance. It is a good business decision for the athletic departments. Follow the money. you didn't answer my question regarding the difference between the meac/swac and any of the aforementioned smaller conferences when it comes to scheduling. citing an ncaa championship game from over 50 years ago involving none of the teams in this "social justice and anti-racism education"/scheduling arrangement has no relevance to the teams in question nor the question of how these teams face any more scheduling difficulties than any other small conference. my logic is simple and was stated before. this has nothing to do with big conferences giving small conferences a chance. this is, as you note, about money, optics, and political pandering. it's a pr stunt that will further the divide among the growing number of americans who find anti-racism to be nothing more than neo-racism. "Student-athletes will participate in social justice and anti-racism educational components as part of the games." if it was just about the racially-preferential scheduling of games, fine. but the line above makes it pretty clear that it goes beyond shallow pr into outright divisiveness. p.s. - you need look no further than this thread among holy cross fans to see the polarization that infusing everything in society with this poison continues to bring about.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 25, 2021 16:09:29 GMT -5
Let’s just go to church and sing Kumbaya my Lord....., then societies problems will be healed, and we can all Iive in peace.....
Oh!, I forgot, that Sunday Morning in America is still “the most segregated hour in America”... nearly 60 years after the 1964 Civil Rights Act. I really don’t understand how the scheduling of these games between the PAC and MEAC will bring about more division that has not been present for the last 400 years of life on the North American continent.
The only way for our country to deal with these societal issues is to look at it face to face and resolve the issues at hand. Being an ostrich with our heads in a hole only exposes your rear end with no resolution.
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Post by efg72 on Sept 25, 2021 16:48:49 GMT -5
Crucius it is never as bad as we fear and not ever as good as we hope for, but with prayer and work it will get better. That said this country, with all of it's faults,remains the best option in the world for fair and equitable treatment of our fellow citizens- people die to get here and our people die to preserve our freedoms
Now let's work to find the right way to make the world better for all of God’s children.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 25, 2021 17:33:13 GMT -5
Crucius it is never as bad as we fear and not ever as good as we hope for, but with prayer and work it will get better. That said this country, with all of it's faults,remains the best option in the world for fair and equitable treatment of our fellow citizens- people die to get here and our people die to preserve our freedoms Now let's work to find the right way to make the world better for all of God’s children. I agree! We must continue to work to resolve injustice, regardless who is the target. To do so is the basis of out legal system.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 25, 2021 19:56:10 GMT -5
There is no country in the world with less prejudice and less bigotry among its citizens than the USA
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Sept 27, 2021 9:22:11 GMT -5
And what is wrong with an outreach and a spotlight (optics) for diversity and inclusion to schools that have been ignored by the majority of the NCAA conferences regarding scheduling. how have the meac and swac been any more ignored by the majority of NCAA conferences than other low-major conferences such as the patriot league, maac, america east, nec, etc.? They haven't been ignored. In fact, these 2 leagues already play the most money games against the P5 in NCAA Mens Basketball because these athletic programs are underfunded and they need the cash. Hence why they schedule like this. In football, the HBCU are able to generate solid revenue by playing each other so typically they juat play one FBS game/year like most FCS schools do.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 27, 2021 10:14:05 GMT -5
Yes--some of the HBCU's draw very nice crowds for FCS games, e.g. 2019 average attendance for Alabama State 17,799; Southern U 16,957; NC A & T 16,927; Florida A & M 16,537
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 27, 2021 12:21:48 GMT -5
There is no country in the world with less prejudice and less bigotry among its citizens than the USA KY, by what metrics? I would agree that our ideals are second to none, The problem is that throughout our history, we have struggled mightily to live up to them.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 27, 2021 13:02:45 GMT -5
There is no country in the world with less prejudice and less bigotry among its citizens than the USA KY, by what metrics? I would agree that our ideals are second to none, The problem is that throughout our history, we have struggled mightily to live up to them.Here's a study from World Population Review worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/least-racist-countriesAnother one from the Daily Mail has us at #14 among 100 countries and one from TheTopTens has us at #19. I am strongly opposed to bigotry and racism of any kind. Unfortunately in this country, we have a thriving grievance industry that promotes it and finds it where it does not exist.
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Post by possum on Sept 27, 2021 13:05:58 GMT -5
In a 2021 Best Countries Report done by US News and World Report, Canada was number 1 with US coming in at 6, Japan Germany Switzerland and Australia were also rated above US. In terms of social justice Canada and the Nordic countries are viewed as most committed to social justice. US ranked 18th and on racial equality specifically US was ranked 69th.
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 27, 2021 13:22:10 GMT -5
KY, by your own references, USA not #1. One of the better but certainly not the best or #1. A little overreach?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Sept 27, 2021 13:44:45 GMT -5
Apparently many due to their age, have never seen or experienced the “Jim Crow” era found extensively in the south and middle America. History apparently is an abstract that is found on dusty books or glossed over on a PBS documentary.
For those of us who are over 65 years of age, especially if traveling throughout the south prior to 1965, you may understand how and why the HBCU conferences i.e..the MEAC, CIAA and SWAC were formed and relegated to the shadows of attention. Occasionally they were mentioned due to programs such as Winston Salem State, with Coach Clarence Gaines, and a player Earl “The Pearl” Monroe winning a D2 championship who brought national to the CIAA.
Only within the last 30 years due to changes in NCAA structure and policies, along with the proliferation of cable sports networks and the ability of broadband internet distribution through ESPN+, Stadium, Campus Insiders, etc have these schools been seen in homes and sports bars across America. For those who enjoy history and research, reviewing the newspaper archives of major newspapers across the US, a list of box scores of games played from a week night or weekend play, you will not see these schools getting any ink on their sports pages.
Granted they are now being seen due to how current technology allows their visibility through the web with a plethora of data being available. Again, this visibility is only recently. If are you are under 55 years of age, unless a dedicated historian, your perspective on this topic is limited to what you have seen.
I strongly suggest that you research the history of the NCAA, along with Long and Ugly History of American Universities regarding their policies for access regarding religion, race, class, gender and ethnic heritage. Your forefathers were excluded as well from many of the schools that you now root to win on a Saturday afternoon. If you were Catholic, very few were in the SEC or Southern Conference colleges or universities.
Recently a traditional HBCU university, Hampton University, founded in 1868, left the MEAC in 2018 and joined The Big South. Hampton was the first HBCU school that made the transition to a non traditional HBCU league. With our long and storied history in football, HC only within the last decade has played a HBCU school, with Howard coming to Fitton Field in 2010, and playing Morgan State in 2014 and 2016. Morgan State recently had Lee Hull and Fred Farrier, HC former football players as coaches. The only HBCU schools that HC has played in basketball that I can remember in my over 50 years of following HC athletics was Hampton University on November 15, 2006 in Worcester and previously in the New Orleans Christmas Classic on December 27, 1996. The other HBCU school was Southern University in the NCAA basketball tournament on March 16, 2016. HBCU schools rarely, unless a money game show up even on non P6 schools.
Very disappointing to see the display on Crossports by several well educated citizens of the US, of the lack of historical understanding of why HBCU’s were formed and excluded from broad national attention until recently.(i.e, the last 10 years of the 20th century and now in the 21st century).
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 27, 2021 13:52:03 GMT -5
My one question...where did you see in Crossports posts a lack of historical understanding about the origins and trials of HBCU?
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Post by dadominate on Sept 27, 2021 14:01:15 GMT -5
In a 2021 Best Countries Report done by US News and World Report, Canada was number 1 with US coming in at 6, Japan Germany Switzerland and Australia were also rated above US. In terms of social justice Canada and the Nordic countries are viewed as most committed to social justice. US ranked 18th and on racial equality specifically US was ranked 69th. "social justice" isn't even remotely an objective science and the rankings are not at all meaningful. japan, in particular, is laughable in light of the intentional homogeneity of their population and immigration policies. we're clearly outside of college basketball, but as a trained scientist, i have to comment on the silliness of claiming that these rankings mean a damn thing to refute ky's statement. there are millions upon millions of "people of color" worldwide who would love to live in and are flocking to this so-called socially unjust, racist country.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Sept 27, 2021 14:05:57 GMT -5
KY, by your own references, USA not #1. One of the better but certainly not the best or #1. A little overreach? The overreach is with those who promote the narrative that the USA is a brutally racist country filled with bigots where the deck is stacked against people who are not Caucasian.
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Post by rgs318 on Sept 27, 2021 14:12:03 GMT -5
Easy there, folks. Let's not go too far afield here. (PS: #6 Japan is disgraced by the treatment of, and discrimination against, the Ainu (Caucasians who trace back to the earliest history of the islands of Japan.)
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