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Post by efg72 on Oct 2, 2021 21:15:45 GMT -5
bustingbrackets.com/2021/10/01/ncaa-basketball-ranking-358-d-head-coaches-2021-22-season/325. Brett Nelson (Holy Cross) (Last year: 343) Overall record: 8-40 Nelson’s third year at Holy Cross begins as he looks to continue pushing these Crusaders in the right direction. Nelson previously spent more than a dozen years as a collegiate assistant, including five years at Marquette before nabbing the Holy Cross job. Year one was rough, but Holy Cross did improve to a 5-11 mark last season. Nelson has this program trending in a positive direction
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 3, 2021 8:27:33 GMT -5
An interesting read. OK, this appears true but it also shows the positive direction for the program that some apparently cannot see. "...he looks to continue pushing these Crusaders in the right direction." "Nelson has this program trending in a positive direction." Note I hope to soon see some of that on the court!  |
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Post by efg72 on Oct 3, 2021 8:31:47 GMT -5
I didn’t comment on the evaluations and have no idea what metrics were used. I was just sharing an article that I thought would be of interest. If you go through the entire list you will see some interesting placements of PL coaches
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 3, 2021 10:17:58 GMT -5
If you explore further in that website you see someone's ranking of Top 20 Patriot League coaches from the years 2000-2020
10) Spiker -Army
9) Jones- BU
8) O'Hanlon Lafayette
7) Langel-Colgate
6) Davis-Bucknell
5) Jones- American U
4) Paulsen-Bucknell
3) Willard- Holy Cross
2) Reed-Lehigh
1) F;annery-Bucknell
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 3, 2021 11:22:21 GMT -5
Uh, huh. Yes. He went from winning 3 games to winning 5 games (in a shorter season). Maybe we'll win 10 games this year? That's be "trending in a positive direction."
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 3, 2021 11:50:55 GMT -5
Perhaps they were referring to the talent he has brought to the hill.
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Post by Tom on Oct 3, 2021 12:10:29 GMT -5
Uh, huh. Yes. He went from winning 3 games to winning 5 games (in a shorter season). Maybe we'll win 10 games this year? That's be "trending in a positive direction." On the other hand there was better than a 200 percent improvement in winning percentage. At that rate, HC will be national champions this year. Obviously that kind of improvement when the base line is so low. I agree that success will be measured in terms of wins and losses and thus far there have been too many losses. Still, I am not as pessimistic about the future as you are. Rome wasn't built in a day |
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 3, 2021 12:27:19 GMT -5
And we aren't building an empire either. False equivalency, my friend (but nice cliche ). Sorry that I wish that Marcus took Brett with him but using another cliche, "fool me once, shame on you . . . . "  And just to show that "fool me twice, shame on me" also applies, I renewed my season tickets for basketball.  |
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 3, 2021 13:11:37 GMT -5
"...not building an empire"? How do you know? I am reluctant to comment on a team's record in a season (or future seasons) until they actually play some games in that season(s).
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Post by efg72 on Oct 3, 2021 18:37:25 GMT -5
Not close to being sold, yet I have rarely prayed my instincts were so wrong.
I think I am a fair judge of talent and believe Nelson has enough talent and should deliver 15-18 wins this season. Anything less in my mind will be a significant disappointment. But then again I have standards that possibly aren’t understood and embraced by TPandTBT
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Post by hchoops on Oct 3, 2021 18:50:31 GMT -5
Not close to being sold, yet I have rarely prayed my instincts were so wrong. I think I am a fair judge of talent and believe Nelson has enough talent and should deliver 15-18 wins this season. Anything less in my mind will be a significant disappointment. But then again I have standards that possibly aren’t understood and embraced by TPandTBT Please Who/what are TP and TBT ? |
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Post by efg72 on Oct 3, 2021 18:52:32 GMT -5
The President and the Trustees
I have no idea what they want or expect
as a fan and supporter I am an insignificant pice of the puzzle
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 3, 2021 20:59:48 GMT -5
Not close to being sold, yet I have rarely prayed my instincts were so wrong. I think I am a fair judge of talent and believe Nelson has enough talent and should deliver 15-18 wins this season. Anything less in my mind will be a significant disappointment. But then again I have standards that possibly aren’t understood and embraced by TPandTBT Holy Cross has won 17+ games one time since RW’s last season in 2008-09 — 2013-14 under Milan. 27 months ago, Brett Nelson inherited a team that had finished last in the PL and then lost its three best players. For you to think that 17-18 wins is within an expected range this year, you must think Nelson is a superlative recruiter to have gotten our roster to this point in such short order? |
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Post by efg72 on Oct 3, 2021 21:11:39 GMT -5
I think within a PL world there is enough talent to win 13 games plus the two cupcakes on the schedule. Whether he can coach and play the right players, and the players execute his game plan remains to be seen. Can they steal an extra few games who knows, but over the past two seasons others have taken a W away from us. So yes 15-18 is my expectation.
Stop protecting him for taking over a broken program and start holding him accountable and responsible to deliver a winner. He has done the hard part by recruiting better athletes and players now he needs to develop the players and out coach the opponent.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 3, 2021 21:27:49 GMT -5
I am not sure that trying to fairly evaluate the coach as he executes a very difficult change over is "protecting" him or anyone else. Now, however, is the time to see what he will be doing with his talented recruits.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 3, 2021 22:21:30 GMT -5
I see this as Coach Nelson’s truly first year with a team he has constructed with much needed upgraded roster regarding talent and culture.
His first year, 2019-2020, with him taking over the team in July, with a dysfunctional culture, would be hard to pin on him regarding the W/L record. His second year, 2020-2021, with a substantial number of players on a the team that did not fully practice together until the second semester, playing an abbreviated unbalanced league only schedule, is not a fair evaluation of his W-L record.
Now that we are in year 3, with Brett and staff having 10 months to be able to build a team that is focused with a new culture, we should see substantial improvement.
For those who have followed HC basketball for 50 years, it took George Blaney until a full year 3 with Chris Potter and Mike Vicens arrival as freshmen to show winning results.
If the team shows substantial improvement in shooting, face up man to man defense, defensive rebounding and especially offensive rebounding and hustle, the results should provide a winning record. I will be patient through 2021-2022. If we are not blazing through the schedule in 2022-2023, then it will be time for real disappointment.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 3, 2021 23:52:51 GMT -5
The benchmark for wins in the PL this coming season, according to our posters who participated, is 10-11.
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Post by Tom on Oct 4, 2021 7:57:16 GMT -5
Not close to being sold, yet I have rarely prayed my instincts were so wrong. I think I am a fair judge of talent and believe Nelson has enough talent and should deliver 15-18 wins this season. Anything less in my mind will be a significant disappointment. But then again I have standards that possibly aren’t understood and embraced by TPandTBT Holy Cross has won 17+ games one time since RW’s last season in 2008-09 — 2013-14 under Milan. 27 months ago, Brett Nelson inherited a team that had finished last in the PL and then lost its three best players. For you to think that 17-18 wins is within an expected range this year, you must think Nelson is a superlative recruiter to have gotten our roster to this point in such short order? Going to drop into geek mode for a moment HC has 13 OOC games (including 2 D-III opponents) and a conference schedule of 18. Add in one guaranteed post season game and that equals 32. I am going to assume for this exercise that HC beats both D-III opponents - and yes, I know recent history suggests that is not necessarily a safe assumption Going on the low end of efg's 15-18 wins, that would translate into 13-17 (.433) vs D-I opponents Going on the low end of BBC's 17-18 wins, that would translate into 15-15 (.500) vs D-I opponents Those percentages assume a loss in the first round of the PL tourney. A win would mean more games, but if we stay with the above stated win total, the winning percentage would drop If, in year 3, HC still can't go .500 against D-I competition, my patience might start to grow thin |
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 4, 2021 8:17:52 GMT -5
Ahh, you are the “patient Tom” between us. 😉😂
I’ll just let it go at that.
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Post by possum on Oct 4, 2021 8:31:45 GMT -5
Would agree this is the year Nelson needs to start winning, no coach was going to win in year 1 with that roster let alone a first time head coach who came on board 3 months before the start of the season, in year 2 I saw a lot of improvement with a very inexperienced roster. Now that he has a roster full of his players that had a complete off season development program it's time to see the results on the court.
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Post by crusader1970 on Oct 7, 2021 15:40:40 GMT -5
Let's see. If we play 32 games and our posters only feel that we will win 10 or 11, that's another 20+ loss season.
Totally unacceptable IMO.
That would be a 3 year record of 18-62 and should result in the end of the Nelson era.
That said, I prefer to be optimistic. Although I am very concerned with the lack of three point shooting on this team, I expect things to improve significantly. I'm hoping for a 15-17 win season and a finish in the middle of the PL.
That would set the stage for a PL Championship contender in Nelson's 4th year.
Something very short of that and a change in coaches would clearly be warranted.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 7, 2021 15:57:11 GMT -5
I try not to forsee consequences to some future act that may never happen. If HC wins the PL tournament who will we play in the first round of the NCAA? Will any if those games be at the Hart? If HC should win the tournament with a losing regular season record, might HC pass up the invitation. Or, let's see what happens when we are discussing actual games? |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 7, 2021 18:30:36 GMT -5
Let's see. If we play 32 games and our posters only feel that we will win 10 or 11, that's another 20+ loss season. Totally unacceptable IMO. That would be a 3 year record of 18-62 and should result in the end of the Nelson era. That said, I prefer to be optimistic. Although I am very concerned with the lack of three point shooting on this team, I expect things to improve significantly. I'm hoping for a 15-17 win season and a finish in the middle of the PL. That would set the stage for a PL Championship contender in Nelson's 4th year. Something very short of that and a change in coaches would clearly be warranted. Tom-- The 10-11 wins that our posters have as the consensus benchmark is for PL regular season games only. As well--this is not a prediction of wins (we always do that poll closer to the start of the season) but, rather, the "number of games the Crusaders must win in 21-22 for the poster to have confidence that Coach Nelson is the right coach for HC." |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Oct 8, 2021 19:51:18 GMT -5
Let's see. If we play 32 games and our posters only feel that we will win 10 or 11, that's another 20+ loss season. Totally unacceptable IMO. That would be a 3 year record of 18-62 and should result in the end of the Nelson era. That said, I prefer to be optimistic. Although I am very concerned with the lack of three point shooting on this team, I expect things to improve significantly. I'm hoping for a 15-17 win season and a finish in the middle of the PL. That would set the stage for a PL Championship contender in Nelson's 4th year. Something very short of that and a change in coaches would clearly be warranted. Tom-- The 10-11 wins that our posters have as the consensus benchmark is for PL regular season games only. As well--this is not a prediction of wins (we always do that poll closer to the start of the season) but, rather, the "number of games the Crusaders must win in 21-22 for the poster to have confidence that Coach Nelson is the right coach for HC." As always, an extremely logical exercise to set a benchmark like this before seeing any live action…. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 8, 2021 20:10:05 GMT -5
Kind of like fawning over this year's frosh and Nelson's recruiting chops before any play a game I suppose.
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