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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 15, 2021 14:57:51 GMT -5
The renaming is already being done. Denali was known as Mount McKinley, its former "official" name. It is the highest mountain peak in North America, with a summit elevation of 20,310 feet. I am sure there will be more of this. It is not always a bad thing to acknowledge origins. How it takes place is often what matters more. So, it's wrong to name things after Native Americans but if things are not named after Native Americans that, too, is wrong......
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2021 16:23:46 GMT -5
KY: If you read what I said, it was not that it is wrong to name things after native americans. Where did you get that idea? I simply said that names are already being changed, that it is not always bad to go back to an original name, and that how the change is initiated may be more important than the change itself. Each case should be looked at as an individual situation.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2021 0:11:06 GMT -5
KY: If you read what I said, it was not that it is wrong to name things after native americans. Where did you get that idea? I simply said that names are already being changed, that it is not always bad to go back to an original name, and that how the change is initiated may be more important than the change itself. Each case should be looked at as an individual situation. Sorry--I was not referring to you at all, but rather to some others in our society who are always on the lookout for offenses. I should have made that clear.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 16, 2021 6:47:23 GMT -5
Thanks. I now see why I could not make the connection. Sorry.
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Post by Tom on Oct 16, 2021 17:06:10 GMT -5
So, should we be renaming rivers and lakes now? Not sure where the line gets drawn. Always confuses me when naming a school or town or river or team has been named after a Native American tribe as that is somehow seen automatically now as a pejorative. Having lived in what I called "upstate New York" (locals informed me it was "Central New York") you'd have Oneida Lake, Onondaga Lake, Mohawk River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_River), etc. I get the "Redskins" but not sure why the Cleveland Indians had to change as I've heard even Native Americans referring to themselves as "Indians" and if the story is true, it was intended to honor Sockalexis. Any historical record as to what he thought on the subject? I think the Indians logo was more of the issue.... The Indians logo has been the letter C for a few years now.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 16, 2021 17:26:29 GMT -5
It is a fascinating "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situation regarding names based on Native American terms. I agree that Native Americans got screwed over. Royally. Whether a baby with Native American heritage born on a reservation today or elsewhere in the U.S. has less opportunity than any other American born on the same day, I am less certain of. And also if that baby has less opportunity, I am uncertain who among the currently living to blame for that.
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 16, 2021 22:44:11 GMT -5
It is a fascinating "darned if you do, darned if you don't" situation regarding names based on Native American terms. I agree that Native Americans got screwed over. Royally. Whether a baby with Native American heritage born on a reservation today or elsewhere in the U.S. has less opportunity than any other American born on the same day, I am less certain of. And also if that baby has less opportunity, I am uncertain who among the currently living to blame for that. It isn't about who we blame in any of these situations. Rather, it is about understanding our past and deciding what do we do now? How do we work to create a better future?
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Post by gks on Oct 17, 2021 11:58:03 GMT -5
Fact is that groups like the Nipmucs and others had a tremendous influence on the New England region. Many landmarks, towns, streets, etc are named in recognition of this. I see no problem with local high schools doing the same.
This is one man's opinion.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 17, 2021 16:01:12 GMT -5
And a good one it is.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 17, 2021 16:29:07 GMT -5
Fact is that groups like the Nipmucs and others had a tremendous influence on the New England region. Many landmarks, towns, streets, etc are named in recognition of this. I see no problem with local high schools doing the same. This is one man's opinion. I agree with the recognition as stated. The problem arose with the mascots associated with the schools, and the depictions of Native Americans in a buffoonish dance and mimicry of falsely viewed ceremonies in a less than flattering manner. Watching athletic contest when some Yahoo was wearing ceremonial attire, acting like a clown, does not provide a honorable view of Native Americans, and their tribulations.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 17, 2021 16:34:39 GMT -5
The biggest inaccuracy may be in wearing the familiar eagle feather "war bonnet" to depict a tribe other than the plains Indian tribes whose honored members actually wore one.
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Post by gks on Oct 17, 2021 21:36:33 GMT -5
Fact is that groups like the Nipmucs and others had a tremendous influence on the New England region. Many landmarks, towns, streets, etc are named in recognition of this. I see no problem with local high schools doing the same. This is one man's opinion. I agree with the recognition as stated. The problem arose with the mascots associated with the schools, and the depictions of Native Americans in a buffoonish dance and mimicry of falsely viewed ceremonies in a less than flattering manner. Watching athletic contest when some Yahoo was wearing ceremonial attire, acting like a clown, does not provide a honorable view of Native Americans, and their tribulations. Other than Florida State, which I believe has the blessing of the Seminole tribe, name on example of these 'buffonish' dances. Please.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 17, 2021 22:49:13 GMT -5
I agree with the recognition as stated. The problem arose with the mascots associated with the schools, and the depictions of Native Americans in a buffoonish dance and mimicry of falsely viewed ceremonies in a less than flattering manner. Watching athletic contest when some Yahoo was wearing ceremonial attire, acting like a clown, does not provide a honorable view of Native Americans, and their tribulations. Other than Florida State, which I believe has the blessing of the Seminole tribe, name on example of these 'buffonish' dances. Please. I thought Ted Turner and his then wife Jane Fonda looked Buffoonish when they made the Tomahawk Chop in the stands at least one year the Atlanta Braves were in the post season.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 0:18:03 GMT -5
I agree with the recognition as stated. The problem arose with the mascots associated with the schools, and the depictions of Native Americans in a buffoonish dance and mimicry of falsely viewed ceremonies in a less than flattering manner. Watching athletic contest when some Yahoo was wearing ceremonial attire, acting like a clown, does not provide a honorable view of Native Americans, and their tribulations. Other than Florida State, which I believe has the blessing of the Seminole tribe, name on example of these 'buffonish' dances. Please. GKS: Here is an example: fox11online.com/news/local/video-of-students-dancing-at-clintonville-high-school-criticized-by-tribe“The Clintonville Public School District is aware of and apologizes for a very unfortunate event that occurred on October 3rd, at Clintonville High School," read a statement posted to the school district's Facebook page. "During a lunchtime homecoming dance off, Non-American Indian students wrongfully created a disrespectful mockery of American Indian culture by imitating and misrepresenting an American Indian dance. The specific dance was not school approved nor sanctioned by the school or any District employee."You probably never attended a Dartmouth College Football event in the 1950’s or 1960’s before they changed their mascot. Probably not of age at the time. course-exhibits.library.dartmouth.edu/s/HIST8/item
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 0:26:28 GMT -5
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 2:30:28 GMT -5
Have you attended a tribal sponsored Pow Wow? Please do if you have an opportunity to understand the differences with ceremonial dances and activities based on geographical and tribal heritage. My favorite is the Scissors Dance from the regions of Peru. I have seen multiple performances from groups from Apurimac. When properly performed it is a legitimate dance in display of the cultural heritage of the people, it is a beautiful choreographed, intricate and precise series of steps that is executed, and not the display of someone merely getting up on a floor or field and prancing around pretending to be First Nations or Indigenous in a ceremonial costume that has no tribal legitimacy. Please leave your cultural stereotypes behind in the 20th Century with the fictional depictions seen in the Lone Ranger, F Troop, and John Wayne movies. Truly learn about Indigenous, Native American and First Nations culture. It should not be mocked by a group of Yahoos. peru.info/en-us/talent/news/6/24/the-scissors-dance--cultural-heritage-of-humanityen.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danza_de_tijerasMarcha: Where the dancer walks on tip-toe, saluting the audience and the patron saint of the festival. Ensayo: The dancer begins the contrapunteo. Pukllas: the sound of the scissors. Tuku Menor or Counter Dance: In this stage, the dancers execute steps on the tips of their toes, but it is not sequential. Tuku Mayor: dancers execute acrobatics such as leaps and strength exercises. Wañuy Unccuy: all of the danzaq remove their hats. Golpes: the dancer demonstrates his technique and agility. Agua e nieve (Water and snow): the dancer challenges his rival. Sequence of choladas: the dancers show off their best steps until one of the two concedes. Prueba de valor (Test of bravery): the dancers carry out violent movements with their bodies. Prueba de sangre (Test of blood): the dancers carry out bloody actions with their bodies. Another Dance I enjoy seeing performed is the Grass Dance and the stories regarding it’s origin: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_dance
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Post by Tom on Oct 18, 2021 7:45:47 GMT -5
Other than Florida State, which I believe has the blessing of the Seminole tribe, name on example of these 'buffonish' dances. Please. I thought Ted Turner and his then wife Jane Fonda looked Buffoonish when they made the Tomahawk Chop in the stands at least one year the Atlanta Braves were in the post season. True, but I also thought Jane Fonda looked buffoonish when she wasn't doing the tomahawk chop
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 8:13:44 GMT -5
I surmise you were not a fan of the movie Barbarella?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 8:29:00 GMT -5
Buffoonish Dance....See Chief Illiniwek..... A person dressed in Lakota clothing pretending to be dancing a war dance from a Algonquin nation. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chief_Illiniwek“During sporting events, Chief Illiniwek was portrayed by a student selected via audition and wearing authentic Lakota (Sioux) clothing. The portrayal also included a dance that the originated from the first three portrayers' experience in the Boy Scouts of America, as taught by Ralph Hubbard, who had traveled widely in Europe and America staging "Indian pageants".[10] This dance corresponded to the music and lyrics of the "Three in One" performed by the university band, which is an arrangement of three original songs entitled "The March of the Illini", "Hail to the Orange", and "Pride of the Illini".[1 “A total of 36 different students officially performed the role of the Chief. All but one have been men: one woman, Idelle (Stith) Brooks, served in 1943 due to the shortage of male students during World War II; she was called "Princess Illiniwek." No student portraying Chief Illiniwek was of American Indian heritage during the 82 year span,[16] although Brooks, a journalism major who had grown up on the Osage Reservation in Fairfax, Oklahoma, was described as an "honorary princess of the Osage Indian tribe".[17][18] Brooks weighed 90 pounds and her Chief regalia weighed 50.[1”
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 18, 2021 8:29:52 GMT -5
How many chances does one get to reference a zero gravity strip tease?
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 8:36:27 GMT -5
Especially with a movie made 53 years ago.
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Post by gks on Oct 18, 2021 9:15:32 GMT -5
Other than Florida State, which I believe has the blessing of the Seminole tribe, name on example of these 'buffonish' dances. Please. GKS: Here is an example: fox11online.com/news/local/video-of-students-dancing-at-clintonville-high-school-criticized-by-tribe“The Clintonville Public School District is aware of and apologizes for a very unfortunate event that occurred on October 3rd, at Clintonville High School," read a statement posted to the school district's Facebook page. "During a lunchtime homecoming dance off, Non-American Indian students wrongfully created a disrespectful mockery of American Indian culture by imitating and misrepresenting an American Indian dance. The specific dance was not school approved nor sanctioned by the school or any District employee."You probably never attended a Dartmouth College Football event in the 1950’s or 1960’s before they changed their mascot. Probably not of age at the time. course-exhibits.library.dartmouth.edu/s/HIST8/itemShocking....high school kids acting like morons.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 18, 2021 9:17:40 GMT -5
Isn't such stupidity part of the job description for high schools kids?
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Post by gks on Oct 18, 2021 9:22:10 GMT -5
Isn't such stupidity part of the job description for high schools kids? As a parent of one.....yes it is.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 18, 2021 9:45:18 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the stupidity and willful ignorance for many continue we’ll beyond their high school years.
Imagine if wisdom and compassion was achieved by some hormonal change that occurred at age 20!
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