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Post by Sons of Vaval on Oct 11, 2021 18:36:20 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 11, 2021 18:44:56 GMT -5
True original post being taken over by "woke" drivel. My last post on this matter.
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Post by Tom on Oct 12, 2021 11:07:57 GMT -5
1) If Holy Cross wants to study the Nipmuc Nation that's fine. Always good to learn new things. Yes, I suppose it was not accidental the announcement came on a day that some states and cities call Indigenous People Day. For what it's worth, the official holiday in the United States, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, and the City of Worcester is still Columbus Day
2) I think the second comment that HC should stop referring to that piece of real estate as Mt St James is pretty stupid. I feel like damned if you do and damned if you don't. Some people do not like using Indian names for things, now we have people that don't want us using the European names
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 13, 2021 18:37:49 GMT -5
2) I think the second comment that HC should stop referring to that piece of real estate as Mt St James is pretty stupid. I feel like damned if you do and damned if you don't. Some people do not like using Indian names for things, now we have people that don't want us using the European names Why though on the Native American names? Is it because people can't say them easily? Or just don't want to honor the Native Americans? General question....
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Post by Tom on Oct 13, 2021 20:59:37 GMT -5
There was a bill before the MA state legislature that no school in the state could use Native American names, words, or imagery in logos, letterheads, publications, etc. It was probably targeted at nicknames, but was poorly worded and I don't think it ever got out of committee. Thinking back to what started this thread, there's a high school in MA called Nipmuc. If they were forced to not use the word in letterheads and logos, they'd pretty much have to change the name of the school
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 13, 2021 21:34:23 GMT -5
It's time to address these issues since we have solved all of the other problems that once plagued our society
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 13, 2021 21:36:40 GMT -5
There was a bill before the MA state legislature that no school in the state could use Native American names, words, or imagery in logos, letterheads, publications, etc. It was probably targeted at nicknames, but was poorly worded and I don't think it ever got out of committee. Thinking back to what started this thread, there's a high school in MA called Nipmuc. If they were forced to not use the word in letterheads and logos, they'd pretty much have to change the name of the school Algonquin, Tantasqua, Quaboag, Quabbin, Wachusett are some other Native American names for high schools in Worcester County. I don't have a problem with high schools named after them but the Native American mascot being the Tomahawks in Algonquin's case is crazy.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 13, 2021 23:25:08 GMT -5
^
You might want to bone up on your history because Tantasqua, Wachusett, and Quabbin HS's are not named after Native American tribes, just merely from translations of words with peaceful and non-offensive whatsoever meanings.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 14, 2021 0:21:23 GMT -5
^ You might want to bone up on your history because Tantasqua, Wachusett, and Quabbin HS's are not named after Native American tribes, just merely from translations of words with peaceful and non-offensive whatsoever meanings. Well, first of all I never said they were tribes so not sure what you mean. They have Native American names. Tantasqua for one is named off of the Tantiusques mine in Sturbridge that was purchased by John Winthrop, Jr in 1644 from the Nipmuc tribe and subsequently made money off of it.... Wachusett and Quabbin are places with Native American names from the Nipmuc.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 14, 2021 1:19:24 GMT -5
Hmmm......
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 14, 2021 6:58:35 GMT -5
Mom!!!!!! They're at it again!!!
Nice that they have this forum to use for their cage fight since neither of them attended, much less graduated, from Holy Cross. And, yes, I know, this is not an "official" Holy Cross sanctioned site. And, yes, it's a free country.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 14, 2021 7:50:15 GMT -5
^
Don't you have a parking lot to stare at all afternoon on your computer?
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Post by newfieguy74 on Oct 14, 2021 9:36:46 GMT -5
I have to confess I know nothing of the history of the Nipmucs on Mt. St. James, but I'm curious to know more and I'm glad some faculty members are researching it. The two comments suggest that the Jesuits must have run the Nipmucs off the hill at gun point. These comments strike me as a bit knee-jerk. Am I missing something?
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Post by Tom on Oct 14, 2021 11:02:11 GMT -5
There was a bill before the MA state legislature that no school in the state could use Native American names, words, or imagery in logos, letterheads, publications, etc. It was probably targeted at nicknames, but was poorly worded and I don't think it ever got out of committee. Thinking back to what started this thread, there's a high school in MA called Nipmuc. If they were forced to not use the word in letterheads and logos, they'd pretty much have to change the name of the school Algonquin, Tantasqua, Quaboag, Quabbin, Wachusett are some other Native American names for high schools in Worcester County. I don't have a problem with high schools named after them but the Native American mascot being the Tomahawks in Algonquin's case is crazy. Those and many more. I only mentioned Nipmuc because it was a school that would have been affected by the proposed legislation and it was in the title of the thread.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 14, 2021 11:43:12 GMT -5
Algonquin, Tantasqua, Quaboag, Quabbin, Wachusett are some other Native American names for high schools in Worcester County. I don't have a problem with high schools named after them but the Native American mascot being the Tomahawks in Algonquin's case is crazy. Those and many more. I only mentioned Nipmuc because it was a school that would have been affected by the proposed legislation and it was in the title of the thread. Yea...my point was there is a lot more than just Nipmuc. Should Wahconah be changed since it is named after a Native American princess?
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Post by timholycross on Oct 14, 2021 14:45:38 GMT -5
Grafton's now the Gators, surprised Indians lasted as long as it did.
Can't imagine the Tewksbury Redmen will have that nickname much longer.
Walpole ditched the Confederate Flag logo around the turn of the century. Rebels continued to be their nickname until last year. Now it's the Timberwolves. The Rebel debate having been laid to rest, it's a crummy nickname for any school in this area (Walpole's not exactly dab smack in the Berkshires or some other mountainous area). Plus, the pro franchise carrying the same name is a joke.
What's the current debate on the status of King Philip- honoring the man or degrading him?
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 14, 2021 18:09:08 GMT -5
Professor Doughton is of Nipmuc heritage, and contributed to the project as part of the Quinsigamond Band of Nipmuc Executive Committee.
"Mapping Nipmuc life before and since European settlement on Pakachoag/College Hill, the documentary serves to dispel the idea that Native peoples disappeared after contact with the settlers. The 45-minute film includes a walking tour of sites that would have supported the Nipmuc village and its survival on today’s College Hill/ Pakachoag Hill, located on the border of Auburn and South Worcester."
I lived on the Hill for 4 years of study and never heard boo about this, and I wish I did.It is a very cool thing to learn more about. I hope that the film might be made available online.
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Post by gks on Oct 14, 2021 20:50:55 GMT -5
Algonquin, Tantasqua, Quaboag, Quabbin, Wachusett are some other Native American names for high schools in Worcester County. I don't have a problem with high schools named after them but the Native American mascot being the Tomahawks in Algonquin's case is crazy. Those and many more. I only mentioned Nipmuc because it was a school that would have been affected by the proposed legislation and it was in the title of the thread. I believe that Nipmuc Regional HS (Mendon and Upton) has the written permission of the Nipmuc tribe to use their name. The Nipmuc nation still has tribal lands in the town of Grafton. If you're familiar with the area it is right up the street from Grafton HS and Lake Ripple.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 14, 2021 21:22:15 GMT -5
Grafton's now the Gators, surprised Indians lasted as long as it did. Can't imagine the Tewksbury Redmen will have that nickname much longer. Walpole ditched the Confederate Flag logo around the turn of the century. Rebels continued to be their nickname until last year. Now it's the Timberwolves. The Rebel debate having been laid to rest, it's a crummy nickname for any school in this area (Walpole's not exactly dab smack in the Berkshires or some other mountainous area). Plus, the pro franchise carrying the same name is a joke. What's the current debate on the status of King Philip- honoring the man or degrading him? How about the Millis Mohawks? Do they still use that nickname? Millis was originally East Medway and always the arch rival of the Medway Mustangs, which is a safe nickname.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 14, 2021 23:09:58 GMT -5
Grafton's now the Gators, surprised Indians lasted as long as it did. Can't imagine the Tewksbury Redmen will have that nickname much longer. Walpole ditched the Confederate Flag logo around the turn of the century. Rebels continued to be their nickname until last year. Now it's the Timberwolves. The Rebel debate having been laid to rest, it's a crummy nickname for any school in this area (Walpole's not exactly dab smack in the Berkshires or some other mountainous area). Plus, the pro franchise carrying the same name is a joke. What's the current debate on the status of King Philip- honoring the man or degrading him? How about the Millis Mohawks? Do they still use that nickname? Millis was originally East Medway and always the arch rival of the Medway Mustangs, which is a safe nickname. They are still the Mohawks but removed the Native American imagery amp.milforddailynews.com/amp/6571656002
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 14, 2021 23:29:33 GMT -5
When I was a kid there was a high school basketball player from Medway with the nickname of "Mohair" because of his mohair jacket. He was a Hank Finkel type, tall and awkward who only got into games for a minute or two. Around the middle of the second half a low rumble of "Mohair, Mohair" would begin in the stands until the coach put him in.😊
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2021 8:53:09 GMT -5
So, should we be renaming rivers and lakes now? Not sure where the line gets drawn. Always confuses me when naming a school or town or river or team has been named after a Native American tribe as that is somehow seen automatically now as a pejorative.
Having lived in what I called "upstate New York" (locals informed me it was "Central New York") you'd have Oneida Lake, Onondaga Lake, Mohawk River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_River), etc.
I get the "Redskins" but not sure why the Cleveland Indians had to change as I've heard even Native Americans referring to themselves as "Indians" and if the story is true, it was intended to honor Sockalexis. Any historical record as to what he thought on the subject?
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 15, 2021 9:16:33 GMT -5
The renaming is already being done. Denali was known as Mount McKinley, its former "official" name. It is the highest mountain peak in North America, with a summit elevation of 20,310 feet.
I am sure there will be more of this. It is not always a bad thing to acknowledge origins. How it takes place is often what matters more.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 15, 2021 11:26:05 GMT -5
So, should we be renaming rivers and lakes now? Not sure where the line gets drawn. Always confuses me when naming a school or town or river or team has been named after a Native American tribe as that is somehow seen automatically now as a pejorative. Having lived in what I called "upstate New York" (locals informed me it was "Central New York") you'd have Oneida Lake, Onondaga Lake, Mohawk River (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohawk_River), etc. I get the "Redskins" but not sure why the Cleveland Indians had to change as I've heard even Native Americans referring to themselves as "Indians" and if the story is true, it was intended to honor Sockalexis. Any historical record as to what he thought on the subject? I think the Indians logo was more of the issue....
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 15, 2021 11:30:39 GMT -5
While I agree that was probably more of the issue, a change of logo would be pretty easy to do so I just think that was the tip of the iceberg.
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