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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 13, 2021 20:52:27 GMT -5
But not many of those Gonzaga WCC games are picked up by ESPN. I have tried to watch them for years.. Maybe you go to bed early?
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Post by hchoops on Oct 13, 2021 20:58:48 GMT -5
Not the rare times the Zags are on.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Oct 14, 2021 5:07:41 GMT -5
My goodness, at long last Holy Cross has an opportunity to correct past mistakes, and advance the basketball program to new heights! They must move quickly and apply for admission to the Big West conference!
I'd be super pumped to have an annual visit to the Hart by Russell Turner's UC Irvine Anteaters.....and not too many conferences have schools with cooler nicknames, like the Anteaters, Gauchos, Matadors and Mustangs - the Crusaders would fit right in!
Let's do it!
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 14, 2021 7:00:45 GMT -5
I checked. We aren't eligible because we don't have a cool mascot like the others. They say just the name doesn't count.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 14, 2021 8:12:37 GMT -5
If the Big East wanted to round to 12, Dayton would be the best fit, IMO. Can't see the conference going to 14, But if they did, St. Louis would be my candidate for #13, and VCU for #14. Both schools expand the broadcast market coverage. Providence //// Xavier UConn //// Butler St. John's //// DePaul Seton Hall //// Marquette Villanova //// Creighton Georgetown //// [Dayton] [[VCU]] //// [[St. Louis]] I think if the Big East expands the next two obvious choices are St. Louis and Dayton. After that, I would say Richmond would be up there. They'd be much more likely to be accepted than cross-city rival VCU. Gonzaga -- I'm kind of with hchoops. Long shot that it would happen but not impossible. Hawaii has to travel further to their closest in or out of-conference opponent than Gonzaga would have to travel to play Providence or St. John's. I guess the difference in TV money (less the increase in travel costs) would really have to be there for the move to make sense for Gonzaga. Would basketball-only membership be an option for Gonzaga? Say, Big East M/W hoops and the rest of their sports could compete in the Big Sky or WAC, assuming that the WCC would show them the door. Notre Dame -- don't forget the Irish could dive back into the Big East mix at any point if they become unhappy with their ACC deal. NCAA rules do not allow basketball-only conference memberships. With respect to Richmond, IIRC, GU's President tried to get them to join the new BE when it was being formed, as a geographic partner of GU, and Richmond wasn't interested. Doubt they'd change their mind. Notre Dame's conference alignment will be wherever its football revenue takes it.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 14, 2021 14:03:23 GMT -5
Dana O’Neil of The Athletic chimes in, at length
Expansion is an option for the Big East — here’s who the conference could target NEW YORK, NEW YORK - MARCH 11: The irony is not lost on Val Ackerman. Eight years ago, the Big East served as the carcass of realignment, its very essence picked apart by a combination of power league raiders and desperate football-playing universities. She arrived at a conference in disarray, the league trying to put itself back together while dogged by skeptics who couldn’t imagine how a basketball-focused conference could possibly survive in a world governed by pigskin. Yet here sits the Big East, if not in the catbird seat about as close as you can get to it in the current world of college athletics. By doubling down on the identity Dave Gavitt first conjured in 1979, it has removed itself from the chaos. Once the most vulnerable, it is now the most stable conference in the country. It has one football-playing school — at least in theory, if not execution — and you have to think that UConn has been scared straight by its first dalliance with putting football first. Among basketball-first schools, it’s the destination league. Once picked over, the Big East now gets to pick. Which is where it gets interesting. When the league welcomed back UConn as its 11th member two years ago, Ackerman said there were no plans to search out a 12th school. At the time, it was the truth. Times change. The league’s 12-year deal with Fox expires in 2025 and no league — one concentrated on basketball or football — is immune to the finances of a media deal. Ackerman told The Athletic that the league already has had “counseling” from prominent sports media consultants about what’s needed to secure a solid deal, and she plans to soon engage her presidents in the very beginnings of a conversation about expansion. “(The end of the Fox deal is) in the back of our minds,’’ Ackerman says. “What keeps us in a prime position in respect to our media rights? It’s about quality basketball programming. What school would help us with our basketball aspirations, men’s and women’s? What school lines up with our existing values? What school would help us with respect to our primary revenue stream, and national TV revenue?” The key words here are “quality” and “help.’’ The Big East has the luxury of being choosy, and it needs to be just that. Simply adding teams to bloat membership will not make it a more attractive TV package, and in fact will dilute the product it has. It needs teams that have a tradition of success and have shown a financial commitment to winning at basketball. But since Ackerman asked … here’s a rundown of some of the most obvious candidates, why they’d work, why they wouldn’t, and a Grand Plan that might solve all of the problems. Gonzaga No single team would up the Big East’s appeal and potential fortunes more than the Zags. They have everything the league could want in terms of success, tradition and name-brand recognition. The school’s commitment to hoops is evident via a quick ride through campus, where the McCarthy Athletic Center shines. And Gonzaga is a small, Jesuit institution to boot. It also wouldn’t take much to leave. The West Coast Conference requires 12- to 24-month notice and a $500,000 exit fee. But the but. Its closest Big East rival would be Creighton, a mere 1,376 miles away. Providence is a 2,753-mile one-way commute. Basketball isn’t football, requiring a once-a-week commute. Games are played midweek, and late at night, and a Wednesday date in Spokane would require an early Tuesday departure, with an at-best bleary-eyed red-eye return Thursday. “Travel and logistics really do matter,’’ Ackerman says. “We’ve got to be sensitive to that. It’s not insurmountable, but geography is sort of high on our list.’’ Wichita State The Shockers confirmed their staying power last year when, amid a tumultuous parting with Gregg Marshall and in the midst of a global pandemic, Isaac Brown navigated the team to a 16-6 record and an NCAA Tournament bid. They have the juice and the fan base, and as Marshall used to love to brag to anyone who did — or didn’t — ask, the school spends well on its team. Wichita State is a charter-only program, its program backed by the deep pockets of the Koch brothers. It also slides nicely and easily into the Midwest addition to the league, and would create a clean six-and-six split between East Coast and Midwest-based schools. But as a larger, public school it doesn’t necessarily jive with the Big East private school feel. Then again, neither does Connecticut. More complicated, Wichita State just joined the American Athletic Conference in 2017, and commissioner Mike Aresco already has drawn an exit fee line in the sand as he preps for the departures of Cincinnati, Central Florida and Houston. The current bylaws require a 27-month notice and $10 million buyout. Aresco has said leaving early is possible, but will cost more cash. Loyola Chicago The Ramblers offer the hoops cache, and the league gets Sister Jean as an added bonus. There is, however, risk here. For starters, Porter Moser is gone and Drew Valentine is a first-year head coach. His team is stacked this year, but whether Loyola Chicago remains Loyola Chicago under his watch remains to be seen. The university has invested more. The Norville Center is three-story evidence of the commitment, the Ramblers also charter much more than they used to and have enjoyed the financial gains of giddy alums celebrating the NCAA Tournament successes. But the Big East also already has a Chicago presence (kinda) via DePaul. Does another team in that market change things significantly? Dayton/Saint Louis/VCU Each of the potential Atlantic 10 add-ons has its merits. The Flyers bring a devoted fan base, immediate friction with Xavier, a like-minded Catholic school and an invested administration. The Billikens fit perfectly, as well, and offer up a new city to expand the Big East’s midwest reach. And while the Rams don’t match the profile from a university standpoint, they make up for it in name recognition and NCAA Tournament bona fides. But taken singularly none of them necessarily move the needle enough to ratchet up a TV package. None would hurt the Big East, but it’s a question of how much any one of them would help it.
UNLV may not be an obvious fit for the Big East but if the conference wants to expand dramatically it has its positives. (Stephen R. Sylvanie / USA Today) The Grand Plan: Go Big(ger) East Ackerman’s geography/travel woes aren’t without merit. Adding Gonzaga solo would create some seriously messy commutes. But what if the Bulldogs served as the lure for a West Coast Big East division? The last time the league swelled to 16 teams it was exceptionally messy. This would be different. This time the divide wouldn’t be between football and basketball schools, but set up neatly by geography. Saint Mary’s is the obvious choice. The Gaels have been a natural in-league rival to the Zags for years already, though their financial commitment hasn’t been stellar. The gym, while quaint and noisy, still seats 3,500, and it’s not necessarily a huge fan base. San Francisco doesn’t have the on-court success that Saint Mary’s offers, but university administrators have been more progressive in finding ways to improve the Dons, including playing games at the Chase Center, the Warriors’ home court. But if the Big East really wants to bolster its appeal, it needs to think outside the box. UNLV is quickly becoming the UConn of the West, clinging to its conference affiliation (the Mountain West) because of a lousy football team. The Runnin’ Rebels haven’t had a winning season since 2013, and haven’t won a game since 2019. In the meantime, the once glittery basketball program has become slightly less so. A jump to the Big East could and should re-energize basketball. Granted “Vegas, baby,” doesn’t exactly scream private, prim Catholic school, but the like-mindedness of sport should trump religious affiliation. Then it gets a little nutty. But if the Big East is really going to go big(ger) or go home and deems adding Gonzaga the necessary feather to its cap, you have to get a little nutty. Let’s face it. The options out West aren’t otherwise great. The Big Sky doesn’t offer any teams to make the Big East better. Ditto the WAC. Loyola Marymount has a history but not much of it is recent. San Diego State and Boise State both toyed with joining the American Athletic Conference but ultimately decided to stay put and wait out the next round of expansion. But if no power league comes calling, the Aztecs and the Broncos maybe could be convinced to split the baby, and send their football teams in one direction and basketball in another. The Show would be a delightful fit for the Big East, not to mention offer a geographical rival actually worthy of Gonzaga, and Leon Rice has had Boise on a steady climb. (Caveat: this only works if football separates as it has at UConn. The last thing the Big East needs to do is expose itself again by bringing football to the table). So how does this work in actual games? The league could steal a page from the Ivy League/Pac 12 and make weekend travel partnership games. For example, Gonzaga and Saint Mary’s come to the East Coast three times a year and play Villanova/Georgetown, Seton Hall/St. John’s and Providence/UConn, and stick to their geographic areas for a weekday game. It would take some maneuvering to figure out any sort of balanced schedule, but it’s not impossible, or necessarily outlandish. “In this environment, there are no crazy ideas,’’ Ackerman says. “We’re not the Ancient Eight (Ivy League). Nobody is in that boat that I know of. When we went to 11, we had no plan to go to 12. There was no secret plan. UConn was the one school that checked so many boxes for us. But if you’re asking if future expansion is possible? The answer is yes.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 14, 2021 14:23:55 GMT -5
An extraneous, perhaps pedantic, tangent here, but shouldn't a professional writer know the difference between "cache", a collection of things in a hidden location, and "cachet" (the intended use here) , a synonym for prestige?
"The Ramblers offer the hoops cache, and the league gets Sister Jean as an added bonus. "
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Post by hchoops on Oct 14, 2021 14:34:06 GMT -5
Sr. Jean would not be pleased. Blame the French.
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 15, 2021 16:13:13 GMT -5
People out here on the left coast like having Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference. There is history and interest in the rivalries with St Marys, Santa Clara, San Francisco and Loyola-Marymount. The schools have similar backgrounds, and travel is doable. Gonzaga is free to schedule fabulous OOC matchups and get those teams to come to Spokane, in many cases. Also, it is a great geographic fit for their other teams. I see no reason why they would jump ship. Their conference has not limited them in any way, and they continue to play at the very top of college basketball. Many years, there is more than one WCC team in the NCAAs. Honestly, what would they gain?
All of the West Coast Conference games are on Fox Sports channels, which may explain why you do not see them on ESPN much. We see them a lot.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2021 16:19:22 GMT -5
Gonzaga hoops would gain TV $, (much ?) more than the WCC contract. Now depending on the other sports and travel budget, that would cut into it. They also would gain a superior hoops conference. They do play a very tough OOC schedule, but have few games against competitive schools once the conference season.begins. The BE would better prepare them for the NCAA tourney. Unfortunately, fans’ wishes are almost always ignored in the conference shuffle.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 15, 2021 19:59:37 GMT -5
Although the same applies to Creighton, having a team from Washington state in a league called the Big East sounds stupid Boise State was going to join if the football league stayed together.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 15, 2021 20:13:58 GMT -5
Why not let schools choose different conferences for different teams? Wouldn't that make sense? Rutgers, for example, might stay in the Big 10 for football (I still think it's out of place) and basketball but choose a conference with a smaller geographic footprint rather than flying its softball team to Nebraska every year.
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 15, 2021 22:16:47 GMT -5
Although the same applies to Creighton, having a team from Washington state in a league called the Big East sounds stupid America East has Stanford, UC Davis and Cal in field hockey. Hartford plays in the Big Sky in mens golf.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 16, 2021 0:48:32 GMT -5
Although the same applies to Creighton, having a team from Washington state in a league called the Big East sounds stupid America East has Stanford, UC Davis and Cal in field hockey. Hartford plays in the Big Sky in mens golf. Hartford will be switching to the Little Sky soon.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 16, 2021 0:54:42 GMT -5
Why not let schools choose different conferences for different teams? Wouldn't that make sense? Rutgers, for example, might stay in the Big 10 for football (I still think it's out of place) and basketball but choose a conference with a smaller geographic footprint rather than flying its softball team to Nebraska every year. That idea is far too sensible to go anywhere with the NCAA.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 16, 2021 0:57:56 GMT -5
People out here on the left coast like having Gonzaga in the West Coast Conference. There is history and interest in the rivalries with St Marys, Santa Clara, San Francisco and Loyola-Marymount. The schools have similar backgrounds, and travel is doable. Gonzaga is free to schedule fabulous OOC matchups and get those teams to come to Spokane, in many cases. Also, it is a great geographic fit for their other teams. I see no reason why they would jump ship. Their conference has not limited them in any way, and they continue to play at the very top of college basketball. Many years, there is more than one WCC team in the NCAAs. Honestly, what would they gain? All of the West Coast Conference games are on Fox Sports channels, which may explain why you do not see them on ESPN much. We see them a lot. Because I have attended WCC games at Santa Clara, USF and St. Mary's while visiting CA during the holidays, I have had the same sense that the league members actually enjoy the synergy with the other schools.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 16, 2021 8:30:51 GMT -5
I could see Gonzaga leaving that league if circumstances over time indicate to them that their present level of success is not sustainable.
After that, St. Louis. DePaul would be batsht crazy to want Loyola with all the struggles the Blue Demons have had putting competitive team on the floor. Dayton's a tossup- Xavier may or may not throw a monkey wrench into that. PC certainly would not allow URI in at all costs.
Some of the others mentioned in the long article are downright crazy.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Oct 16, 2021 11:23:19 GMT -5
Although the same applies to Creighton, having a team from Washington state in a league called the Big East sounds stupid America East has Stanford, UC Davis and Cal in field hockey. Hartford plays in the Big Sky in mens golf. Holy Cross used to be in the Big South for Women's Golf
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 16, 2021 15:40:53 GMT -5
I could see Gonzaga leaving that league if circumstances over time indicate to them that their present level of success is not sustainable. After that, St. Louis. DePaul would be batsht crazy to want Loyola with all the struggles the Blue Demons have had putting competitive team on the floor. Dayton's a tossup- Xavier may or may not throw a monkey wrench into that. PC certainly would not allow URI in at all costs. Some of the others mentioned in the long article are downright crazy. Help us with the pros and cons of PC/URI and DePaul/Loyola being in the same league. I can see both sides of that coin, but apparently conventional wisdom says block thy neighbor.
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Post by purplehaze on Oct 18, 2021 11:52:02 GMT -5
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Post by trimster on Oct 19, 2021 19:50:26 GMT -5
Speaking of expansion/movement, 6 schools from Conference USA have applied for membership to the AAC.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 19, 2021 20:16:30 GMT -5
Speaking of expansion/movement, 6 schools from Conference USA have applied for membership to the AAC. Nice not to be a migrant school.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 20, 2021 8:06:11 GMT -5
This AAC expansion is being reported in several places as a done deal.
Considerably weaker basketball league; the only notable basketball school added is Charlotte, and that was a generation (or two) ago. Look for some more changes, that's almost certain.
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Post by gerry on Oct 23, 2021 22:20:58 GMT -5
Add St Louis who is an outlier in the A-10, big market, and solid team. You could then split the league into East (Original Big East) and West. Don't go any further
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Post by bfoley82 on Oct 24, 2021 1:11:51 GMT -5
America East has Stanford, UC Davis and Cal in field hockey. Hartford plays in the Big Sky in mens golf. Hartford will be switching to the Little Sky soon. The Big Sky is still interested in them for golf...I heard it from their coach at the last tournament I shot that they were in.
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