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Post by rgs318 on Oct 14, 2021 12:42:27 GMT -5
Interesting attempt to link displays of faith to the Pharisees. "Openly displaying your religious nature" is indeed fine. Of course, faith without good works is dead (I read that somewhere). Are you implying that displaying a crucifix makes one like the Pharisees without knowing anything about the person or what he or she does based on their faith? That is quite a jump and, IMHO, a very poor argument. Sorry, I disagree. You joined a discussion about whether Georgetown was embarassed about being Catholic by bringing up a 24 year old story about crucifixes on walls. I would suggest that being a Christian is about following the teaching of Christ as opposed to counting religious symbols. I would measure Georgetown's Catholic and Jesuit character by whether they are teaching people to love one another and to be people for others, I ho neatly don't know whether they are or not, but by making it about imagery instead of substance, I think you denigrate the faith you are trying to promote. I joined a discussion about the Catholic identity of colleges. Since I believe your point about following the teachings of Christ, as well, what is your point? If the crucifix is an embarrassment to you and must be hidden to avoid offending others, I am afraid you are the one showing a lack of faith. You confess a lack of actual knowledge ("I honestly don't know whether they are or not"),and then try to say this is about imagery over substance. Is it really sp clearly "either/or" for you? The Cross is a powerful symbol. IMHO, it should not be so easily removed.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 14, 2021 13:14:56 GMT -5
ND is the flagship of Catholic Higher Education in America.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 14, 2021 13:39:20 GMT -5
I wonder when was the last time most of the posters have been on the Georgetown campus and interacted with staff, faculty or students? Actually having observed first hand, the day to day dynamics of student life? I was there on April 13, 2013, seemed pretty Catholic to me, and I attended Catholic schools for 17 years, with several men in clerical collars walking the campus. The most recent promo videos from Georgetown clearly indicate a catholic presence with a scene of a Jesuit teaching in a classroom. The video they have been running during the ESPN+ telecast this season has a couple of scenes of a Jesuit in front of a class. Sad to say, their admissions videos are much more dynamic and seems like a fun place to go school, than just playing a violin. By the way, I have nothing against learning to play the violin, as my 10 year old grand daughter is a violin student. 🙂. Clearly that video with Tiffany, Meagan, Zack is well overdue to be retired. You can see why their is an admissions application gap. Either go into the archives from ESPN+ Georgetown football games from this season, Harvard game as an example, or pay attention to the Georgetown promo videos that will be shown this Saturday. Georgetown is now hiding its Catholic identity, but also, it is not slapping you literally in the bottom, as several of my former nun teachers did in grammar school. I’m afraid that many are living in an chamber from the rousing of William Peter Blatty and his desire before died, to only see Georgetown as it existed when he attended in the 1940’s, with his filing of a canon law petition, which the Vatican rejected in 2014. Also of note, Georgetown opened in 2013, the Calcagnini Contemplative Center, in Bluemont Virginia, as part of their campus ministry. Fr. Boroughs, after he became HC President, returned to Georgetown to visit and was one of the co-celebrants at its dedication, on October 3, 2013. www.georgetown.edu/news/new-contemplative-center-in-blue-ridge-mountains-gets-blessing-dedication/Here is an example of a recent Georgetown video, among its many clips, a Jesuit is shown teaching a class, as well as being shown at Mass in a chapel.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 14, 2021 13:58:01 GMT -5
And I just read an article from the Hoya, March 29, 2012 which I have attached. The following quote seems to indicate the Georgetown at that time provide a robust Catholic Liturgy. “Today, the university offers two Catholic Masses per day on weekdays and as many as seven on Sundays. Sunday evening Masses draw up to 300 students each.” I strongly suggest you read the article as it will provide the genesis of Crucifix controversy that was started by one nun, who was in a newly constructed building, that the iconography had not been added. It will provide a clarification to the misinformation that has been propagated. thehoya.com/at-a-crossroads/“After forming a task force to evaluate the situation, the university announced a new policy in 1998. “We decided there would be crucifixes, but they would have a historic or aesthetic importance,” Glavin said. University Registrar John Pierce, who was involved in the task force on the issue, said that the university solicited donations, and the crucifixes were then placed in classrooms along with plaques explaining their origins and historical and artistic importance. Those crucifixes are not front-and-center in classrooms. The university installed them based on where they best fit in each room, Pierce said, adding that he has not received any complaints about the icons since that time. According to McFadden, Fiore’s battles with the administration had little to do with the actual symbol of the crucifix.” “This was really about identity politics. Georgetown’s Catholic character has nothing to do with crucifixes in classrooms. Identity does not hang on something like that,” he said. “Rather, this young woman felt that Georgetown was not religious enough and was casting about for a cause. This became that cause.” This issue of iconography is clearly generational for the vast majority. For those that came of age after Vatican II attending Catholic College or University certainly has a different meaning and purpose, than those who were born prior to 1962.
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Post by alum on Oct 14, 2021 14:02:09 GMT -5
Sorry, I disagree. You joined a discussion about whether Georgetown was embarassed about being Catholic by bringing up a 24 year old story about crucifixes on walls. I would suggest that being a Christian is about following the teaching of Christ as opposed to counting religious symbols. I would measure Georgetown's Catholic and Jesuit character by whether they are teaching people to love one another and to be people for others, I ho neatly don't know whether they are or not, but by making it about imagery instead of substance, I think you denigrate the faith you are trying to promote. I joined a discussion about the Catholic identity of colleges. Since I believe your point about following the teachings of Christ, as well, what is your point? If the crucifix is an embarrassment to you and must be hidden to avoid offending others, I am afraid you are the one showing a lack of faith. You confess a lack of actual knowledge ("I honestly don't know whether they are or not"),and then try to say this is about imagery over substance. Is it really sp clearly "either/or" for you? The Cross is a powerful symbol. IMHO, it should not be so easily removed. I'm sorry. I suppose for some the symbols of religion are more important than they are for me. I will admit that my Catholicism doesn't require symbols or miracles or ex cathedra pronouncements. I still can't imagine how, in a discussion about whether Georgetown was sufficiently Catholic, the first thing that would come to mind would be a quarter of a century old dustup about whether there are crucifixes on the wall but if it matters to you, I guess that is ok.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 14, 2021 14:42:15 GMT -5
Georgetown is a great world class university. Period!
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bpob55
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 114
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Post by bpob55 on Oct 14, 2021 14:45:58 GMT -5
I, along with many others who are familiar with this situation, do not consider Georgetown a Catholic school. HC, BC, and ND all accept Catholicism as a key aspect of their identities. Georgetown's key identity has nothing to do with their faith connection. A student applying to ND is likely to have also sent applications to BC and HC and vice versa. However, a student applying to Georgetown is more likely to have sent other applications to top-tier secular schools. Georgetown is an incredible school, however, I do not think it is very comparable to BC, HC, or ND. Additionally, from my experiences, graduates from HC ND and BC are proud to say they are from their school because they love their school, while Georgetown grads lack that same passion.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 14, 2021 15:23:59 GMT -5
I agree that Georgetown is a fine academic school that was once a fine Catholic institution. When I was a professor at Mercy College (founded by the Sisters of Mercy) it was turned over to a secular board of trustees. It was sad to see the large crucifix taken down in what had once been the sisters' chapel. It is now simply an assembly hall. (There is still a small room where vestments are stored and can be used by a priest when/if there is an occasional mass said on campus.) PS: As to Georgetown taking down crucifixes 25 years ago, I was not aware that time alone was a way to judge right and wrong. If that were true, should we simply abandon that book Catholic still refer to that is about 20 centuries old?
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 14, 2021 16:15:08 GMT -5
I'd be interested in DFW Hoya's take on how "Catholic" GU is. The rest of us are just speculating or basing our opinions on videos, past encounters.
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 14, 2021 16:55:04 GMT -5
How many Angels fit on a head of a pin? Perspective is the key....Georgetown ...... to an Ave Maria University, Thomas Aquinas College, or Franciscan University of Steubenville, alum is not a traditional catholic college, but why should it be? The schools cited would be very happy to roll back to the Pre Vatican II perspective and traditions in their curriculum and liturgy, Steubenville is 97% Catholic, with the greatest number of students majoring in theology, catechetics, and philosophy. I was taught the Jesuit education mission is to provides a broader educational (sciences, arts, business, etc) perspective than the three popular majors at Steubenville, To each his own, the question should then be raised, why must each institution march in lock step, the purpose of higher education is to explore and acquire knowledge, not to be indoctrinated....... Thomas Aquinas, has acquired a New England campus at the site of the former Mt Hermon School before the merger with Northfield. The Thomas Aquinas College Campus in Massachusetts, which began operations in 2019, may admit only Catholic students. The California campus in Santa Paula CA, remains open to students of all faiths. For our legal experts on the board, can anyone provide a cogent interpretation of the Mass Law statutes that according to the Thomas Aquinas web site state that only Catholics can attend the New England campus? Please read the first link regarding the reference. www.thomasaquinas.edu/about/one-program-two-coasts/new-englandwww.thomasaquinas.eduLooking at the Thomas Aquinas webpage,it is interesting to see the student representation. Is this someone’s view of Catholic Higher Education at a College or University level? Apparently so....
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 14, 2021 17:01:03 GMT -5
Three clicks to find it is not quite "displaying" it openly. In hoc signo vinces post tres strepita.
Is that the quote?Yes, I like a website that shows blood squirting out of palms on the first page.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Oct 14, 2021 17:15:23 GMT -5
Georgetown is about 50 percent Catholic; i.e., identify as Catholic, which is not the same as an observant Catholic. This is Dahlgren Chapel at GU; it was built about 125 years ago. It is underwhelming, and largely hidden on campus. If Georgetown was 75 percent observant Catholic, they'd need to liturgically race through 25-35 Sunday masses to ensure all the observant students could fulfill their Sunday mass obligation. Notre Dame is for Catholics rooted in the Catholic church of 30, 40, 50 years ago. The Congregation of the Holy Cross is down to under 800 priests, most of whom are in the U.S. There were four C.S.C ordinations in 2020 in the U.S., so I suspect the C.S.C. is facing an age-related demographic collapse. The percentage of students identifying as Catholic at BC is around 65%, IIRC. HC is a few percentage points higher.
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Oct 14, 2021 17:28:39 GMT -5
I, along with many others who are familiar with this situation, do not consider Georgetown a Catholic school. HC, BC, and ND all accept Catholicism as a key aspect of their identities. Georgetown's key identity has nothing to do with their faith connection. A student applying to ND is likely to have also sent applications to BC and HC and vice versa. However, a student applying to Georgetown is more likely to have sent other applications to top-tier secular schools. Georgetown is an incredible school, however, I do not think it is very comparable to BC, HC, or ND. Additionally, from my experiences, graduates from HC ND and BC are proud to say they are from their school because they love their school, while Georgetown grads lack that same passion. 57 years ago (gulp!) I applied to those 3. I thinks it's a stretch to say that about Georgetown grads. For what it's worth, although I am proud I went to ND, I would go no further than that. Maybe someone at the game on Saturday, can poll the 57 Georgetown grads who are there.
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 14, 2021 17:31:22 GMT -5
Georgetown is about 50 percent Catholic; i.e., identify as Catholic, which is not the same as an observant Catholic. This is Dahlgren Chapel at GU; it was built about 125 years ago. It is underwhelming, and largely hidden on campus. If Georgetown was 75 percent observant Catholic, they'd need to liturgically race through 25-35 Sunday masses to ensure all the observant students could fulfill their Sunday mass obligation. Notre Dame is for Catholics rooted in the Catholic church of 30, 40, 50 years ago. The Congregation of the Holy Cross is down to under 800 priests, most of whom are in the U.S. There were four C.S.C ordinations in 2020 in the U.S., so I suspect the C.S.C. is facing an age-related demographic collapse. The percentage of students identifying as Catholic at BC is around 65%, IIRC. HC is a few percentage points higher. Life as a Religious made more sense when times were harder than they are today. Huge classes of Seminarians are not walking through that door.
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Post by Chu Chu on Oct 14, 2021 17:50:23 GMT -5
"By 1997, a student group at Georgetown was demanding that crucifixes, by then hung only in historic classroom buildings and each room of the Georgetown University Hospital, be placed back in every classroom. By 1999, there they were, though with a modern multicultural twist: the collection of crucifixes was a consciously colorful one, with Jesuses of many races." Cool
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Post by hcpride on Oct 14, 2021 17:56:41 GMT -5
USNWR does list the top 4 (alphabetically) applicant overlap schools which some might find interesting .
GU: BC, Duke, NYU and UPenn
ND: Duke, Harvard, Northwestern, Princeton
BC: GU, Northeastern, ND, UVA
Nova: BC, Northeastern, ND, UPenn
HC: BC, Fordham, PC, ND
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