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Post by hchoops on Oct 14, 2021 19:33:01 GMT -5
For now.
The Yank… fired 3 coaches, but probably are not finished
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Post by longsuffering on Oct 14, 2021 23:00:20 GMT -5
For now. The Yank… fired 3 coaches, but probably are not finished Creates the appearance of dramatic and decisive action being taken. I'm not following the Yankees closely enough to know if the manager or GM is being replaced but they would be far more responsible for team performance than the coaches. |
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 15, 2021 0:15:12 GMT -5
Coaches don't get launched before a skipper does. It signals that Boone is coming back.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 15, 2021 7:53:33 GMT -5
Coaches don't get launched before a skipper does. It signals that Boone is coming back. The negotiations are ongoing. I think this was leverage against Boone in those discussions. He's not coming back with the same rope he had previously. He won't have all "his" guys there too. It almost feels like he'd have to accept coming back on probation, or with "adult supervision" in a way. One example is Phil Nevin... a classic hard ass, nearly dies of COVID, has to miss his son's first big league game, comes back with an IV in his arm and gets thrown out of a game. Well-liked by the players. Absolute CRAP third base coach, and now fired. That must rub Boone the wrong way, but Cashman can sit back and say well if you don't like it, go coach in San Diego.
Side bar on Blake-- the pitching, and specifically the bullpen, were the gems of the Yankees season. I agree that coaching gets far too much credit and far too much blame in pro sports, but particularly with the starting rotation of duct tape and bubble gum after Cole, and the development/improvement/rehabilitation of Jordan Montgomery, he deserves some accolades.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Oct 15, 2021 8:52:56 GMT -5
Wouldn't honk Cole too much since he shat his pants in the most important game of the season getting hammered and yanked after just 50 pitches. 324 mil needs to get you more than that, because stars are defined by how they perform when the lights are the brightest, and Cole didn't when it mattered.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Oct 15, 2021 11:20:29 GMT -5
I believe he was still not recovered from his hamstring injury and tried to gut it out. With that said, you still want your $300M man to come up big in those spots, since that's what you pay for.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 15, 2021 18:03:18 GMT -5
Off on a tangent. Last night's Dodgers- Giants game was a gem.Tension throughout, right down to the last pitch a controversial called third strike by the first base umpire.
At one time the Dodgers - Giants were the greatest rivalry in sports. Great marketing and the dramatic improvement by the Sawx to become truly competitive have made
the Red Sox - Yankes the greatest rivalry in baseball. Obviously there are other great rivalries in pro sports- Cardinals-Cubs; Packers-Bears; Giants - Patriots; Celtics - Lakers, actually the great Celtics and everyone else. Knicks-Knicks; Jets, ugh!
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2021 18:06:20 GMT -5
That call was controversial because it was so bad.
Fans on the west coast believe that Dodgers-Giants rivalry is the best.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 15, 2021 19:01:12 GMT -5
You really think a guy who was 0-17 lifetime against a great pitcher was going to get a hit if he got another chance?
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Post by hchoops on Oct 15, 2021 20:27:35 GMT -5
We will never know.
Did you believe the call was correct ?
Wilmer has had many clutch hits in his career, including walkoffs, even this season.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 16, 2021 10:34:33 GMT -5
From an old Giants fan, there was nothing better in baseball than Dodgers - Giants. Back in the day we despised the Dodgers but liked and admired their players - Jackie, Gil, Campy, Junior, the Duke, Oisk, Newk, & the great Walt Alston to name a few. They broke my heart on more than one occasion.
The mid-'50's Dodgers were a great team. But, my Giants had the Say Hey Kid, the greatest all around player I have ever seen. The '54 Giants were underrated. It was a great rivalry in NY and continues to be so on the left coast.
Some of my Yankees fan friends have finally come around and accepted the reality that, if one looks at all phases of the game, Mays was far better than Mantle. The stats support this fact. Plus, the intangibles favored Mays in a big way. And, if both had played full careers, Mays lost two yearsserving his country during some of his best years, Mantle drinking & injured for years, the difference between the two would have been greater.
The game has moved on. Today's players seem to play at a higher level of athleticism than in the distant past. Peace.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2021 11:01:24 GMT -5
Everyone is entitled to his opinion and we have debated the issue on these pages. My opinion is that Mantle was the better baseball player. Mays may have had the edge in fielding, although Mantle was very good, but when you take a look at offense Mantle is preferred. Just take an objective look at Mantle's OBP versus Willie's--just no comparison. To say that Mays was "far better" than Mantle is just ridiculous in my opinion. What "intangibles" favored Mays? Certainly if you want to talk about winning baseball games and pennants you have to go with Mickey, right?
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Post by mm67 on Oct 16, 2021 11:47:32 GMT -5
With peace & respect. Obviously you are entitled but yours is definitely a minority view point.
Mantle's 3/4 peak years at the plate were superior. However Mays was more consistent at the plate over the length of their careers.
Mantle's OBP percentage was indeed higher .421 to .384 for Mays. Analysts attribute this difference to the fact that Mantle walked 17.5 percent of plate appearances to 12.2 percent for Mays. For 10 years Mantle drew 100+ walks per season. Of course he did strikeout 17.3 percent of plate appearances compared with 12.2 percent for Mays.
Slugging percentage is about the same at .557. Mantle had a higher OPS .977 (due in part to walks) to .941 for Mays. Stolen bases Mays 338, Mantle 153. Mays scored more runs, hit more homers, drove in more runs and had a higher batting average than Mantle. Mays had a longer career with a higher batting average. Length of career is an important metric.
Mays career WAR is third all time (behind Cobb & Bonds for position players. His WAR was significantly higher than Mantle's. Mantle had the advantage in playing in by design hitter friendly Yankee Stadiums whereas Mays played in Candlestick with its swirling winds, horrible weather, one ion the most difficult parks to play.
Mays is ranked #1 in putouts with 7,000+ putouts . Mantle is ranked 28th with 4,000+
I could go on but there are those intangibles. Mantle did not cover the outfield like Mays did. Mays caught balls Mantle never could reach. (see putouts above)
Mantle a converted infielder had a good arm, Mays had a great arm. Base running? Mays could control a game on the base paths, Mantle never did. Overall awareness of the game, throwing to the right base, getting the extra base, hitting behind the runner and on and on, Mays far outstripped Mantle. Mays was a well schooled player, far superior to Mantle in that regard.
Baseball has recognized the superiority of Mays in many ways.. He is widely acknowledged as the greatest 5 tool player of all time. Most experts rank Mays in the top 3 whereas Mantle is ranked not even in the top ten.
We all have our childhood heroes. No doubt The Mick was a legendary, elite, great player but there is no doubt that Mays was far superior.
With fondness & respect, no knockdown, dragouts on this please. Agree to respectfully disagree?
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Post by possum on Oct 16, 2021 12:03:30 GMT -5
Boy how the game has changed, what do you think would've happened to Correa if he pulled the antics he did at home plate last night with Gibson or Drysdale on the mound.
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Post by hchoops on Oct 16, 2021 12:04:50 GMT -5
Mays also had to play his early years in the very pitcher friendly Polo Grounds
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2021 12:05:48 GMT -5
Responding to mm67
Okay- I'll provide just a couple of more facts then you can make the last response with your opinions if you like. As far as controlling the game on the base paths Mays was a very good base stealer with 338 steals but caught stealing 103 times and led the league a couple of times. Mantle stole 153 bases but was caught stealing only 38 times. Here's the big discrepancy--Mays grounded into 251 double plays versus only 113 for Mantle--an enormous difference in this key category. Mantle was the fastest player to first base in baseball history. Double plays kill rallies and Mantle killed very few. With getting caught stealing and hitting into dp's, Mays caused 223 extra outs than Mantle did.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 16, 2021 12:12:27 GMT -5
Boy how the game has changed, what do you think would've happened to Correa if he pulled the antics he did at home plate last night with Gibson or Drysdale on the mound.  Shudder to think about it. |
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Post by mm67 on Oct 16, 2021 12:24:24 GMT -5
Okay- I'll provide just a couple of more facts then you can make the last response with your opinions if you like. As far as controlling the game on the base paths Mays was a very good base stealer with 338 steals but caught stealing 103 times and led the league a couple of times. Mantle stole 153 bases but was caught stealing only 38 times. Here's the big discrepancy--Mays grounded into 251 double plays versus only 113 for Mantle--an enormous difference in this key category. Mantle was the fastest player to first base in baseball history. Double plays kill rallies and Mantle killed very few. With getting caught stealing and hitting into dp's, Mays caused 223 extra outs than Mantle did. Okay. Numbers don't lie. Add, Mantle was the better bunter.Overall, Mays has the numbers on his side. I added more stats above.And there are those intangibles. Both were fast. Mantle was lightning fast to first. There is more to running the bases than a stopwatch time measure from home to first. Never saw Mantle control a game on the base paths as did Mays. (Jackie was legendary) No one can deny Mickey was a great player. He was fabulous! But, the consensus shared by the overwhelming majority is that Mays was far superior. I'll stop. Peace. |
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Post by WorcesterGray on Oct 16, 2021 13:38:37 GMT -5
With getting caught stealing and hitting into dp's, Mays caused 223 extra outs than Mantle did. Defensively, however, Mays saved his team 173 runs above the average outfielder during the course of his career, while Mantle was 22 below average. A good center fielder early on, the Mick was a liability throughout the 1960s and finished with a career dWAR of -9.6, while Mays was +18.2. Mantle won a single Gold Glove. Mays won twelve - in a row.
On the subject of double plays, Mantle had a distinct advantage hitting from the left side - but from the right side, he hit into DPs at virtually an identical rate as Mays. Also worth noting that nine of the top ten leaders in GIDP are (or, in the case of Pujols and Cabrera, will be) in the Hall of Fame.
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Post by timholycross on Oct 16, 2021 19:44:54 GMT -5
Mays also had to play his early years in the very pitcher friendly Polo Grounds The "Stick" was an awful place for a right handed hitter too. And no short pokes down either line, like in the Polo Grounds. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 16, 2021 20:24:43 GMT -5
Check Baseball-reference.com for objective data on ball parks- whether they favor hitters or pitchers. Yankee Stadium favored pitchers thus disadvantaging batters. You can get the objective read on the Polo Grounds, Seals Stadium, and Candlestick Park as well.
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Shudder to think about it.