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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 3, 2021 6:23:11 GMT -5
And most kids have several other vaccines coursing through their veins. Small kids can get the covid vac in one arm and the flu vac in the other arm to save the parents a trip. Completely medically approved. Since flu is deadlier for the 5-11 year old kiddies there is a certain logic there. And a continued masking of the little faces after the shots (since the vaccinated routinely get infected and spread Covid and Flu) has its own appeal. And the idea that Covid and/or Flu may be around for a while so we’re talking years of masking kiddies simply deepens the appeal. For some. I got my daughter the flu shot this year. I started getting the flu shot in 2019 when my wife was pregnant and plan to receive annually. Continuing to mask children is absolutely ridiculous. For starters, since surgical masks and N95s don't fit young kids, they're all wearing cloth masks. Studies conducted at Duke University have shown that these masks are too porous reduce viral spread and in some cases viral particles travel further (think garden hose through screen door) than if no mask was worn at all. Not to mention that there are definitely parents out there sending their kids to school in dirty snot-covered masks which is also not healthy. I'm still open to getting my daughter (and future little ones) vaccinated against COVID. I just don't have enough in front of me now to convince me that it the risk/reward is there.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 3, 2021 6:44:00 GMT -5
Since flu is deadlier for the 5-11 year old kiddies there is a certain logic there. And a continued masking of the little faces after the shots (since the vaccinated routinely get infected and spread Covid and Flu) has its own appeal. And the idea that Covid and/or Flu may be around for a while so we’re talking years of masking kiddies simply deepens the appeal. For some. I got my daughter the flu shot this year. I started getting the flu shot in 2019 when my wife was pregnant and plan to receive annually. Continuing to mask children is absolutely ridiculous. For starters, since surgical masks and N95s don't fit young kids, they're all wearing cloth masks. Studies conducted at Duke University have shown that these masks are too porous reduce viral spread and in some cases viral particles travel further (think garden hose through screen door) than if no mask was worn at all. Not to mention that there are definitely parents out there sending their kids to school in dirty snot-covered masks which is also not healthy. I'm still open to getting my daughter (and future little ones) vaccinated against COVID. I just don't have enough in front of me now to convince me that it the risk/reward is there. Yes, I can tell you the ‘masks’ in school are a joke on many levels. For many of the reasons you point out. I think the idea of masking kids in school is an important symbol - for some. And some folks are very very into gestures and symbols.
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Post by alum on Nov 3, 2021 7:19:51 GMT -5
I got my daughter the flu shot this year. I started getting the flu shot in 2019 when my wife was pregnant and plan to receive annually. Continuing to mask children is absolutely ridiculous. For starters, since surgical masks and N95s don't fit young kids, they're all wearing cloth masks. Studies conducted at Duke University have shown that these masks are too porous reduce viral spread and in some cases viral particles travel further (think garden hose through screen door) than if no mask was worn at all. Not to mention that there are definitely parents out there sending their kids to school in dirty snot-covered masks which is also not healthy. I'm still open to getting my daughter (and future little ones) vaccinated against COVID. I just don't have enough in front of me now to convince me that it the risk/reward is there. Yes, I can tell you the ‘masks’ in school are a joke on many levels. For many of the reasons you point out. I think the idea of masking kids in school is an important symbol - for some. And some folks are very very into gestures and symbols. No doubt. Just like those who won't get vaccinated and take unprescribed cattle dewormer prophylatically. Oh, and they do sell N95 masks for kids. If schools are going to mandate masks, they ought to buy them and hand them out.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2021 7:20:26 GMT -5
Is that an oblique shot at my Crusader mascot position?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2021 7:20:41 GMT -5
I think that some of our posters haven’t bought into that whole men and women for others thing. 😁 It could be that Silver Spoon in their mouth at birth. Maybe if they experienced life from the other side of the tracks they might see things different.
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Post by lou on Nov 3, 2021 7:51:57 GMT -5
Walgreens will let children use its photo booths for free after their vaccinations, so they can show off their fresh inoculations to their friends.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 3, 2021 8:42:31 GMT -5
My kids had COVID, as did my wife and I. We likely got it from the children via their pre-school. Their symptoms were runny noses for about 12 hours (for the 2 year old) and about 48 hours (for the 4 year old). No other issues. My wife had a bad cold for a week, and lost her sense of smell. I had the worst pain of my life, nerve pain in my legs and back, for two days. Elevated pulse rate and sore throat for a week. Also lost my smell. We caught COVID back in February, about a week before my wife and I were supposed to get the vaccine. Talk about bad timing.
I only really got the shot (two Moderna doses in August) because the world made it too much of a pain in the ass to do anything without it. There were tons of policies for those who didn't get the shot, or those that did, and too few considerations for those who already had COVID and had natural immunity. There seems to have been a bias against the natural protection that catching the virus would offer versus a vaccine offering the same outcome. I'm not a doctor, but it did seem illogical at least.
My reaction to the second shot was convulsions. I was stuck on the toilet with stomach cramps and when i tried to stand up, I was in a heap. A sloppy mess trying to get up the stairs or breathe. 3 extra strength Tylenols (which I am told mute the efficacy of the vaccine, so I'm supposed to avoid) helped a bit.
If my kids are going to get ANYTHING CLOSE to that type of response, since they already have antibodies, there won't be a shot that goes near them.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 3, 2021 9:04:57 GMT -5
Well, I can certainly understand your hesitancy.
Not that this will, or even should, change anyone's mind but here's our family story:
Wife and I both over 70. Both with underlying issues, mine being diabetes. Wife got the Pfizer 1st and 2nd shots. I got Moderna first and second shots. Subsequently (recently), both got our respective boosters. Reactions: both very minor soreness at the injection site. First jab, my wife, not looking, never even felt the needle and asked the pharmacist whether she actually did it. My theory however, is that the minor soreness (not all 3 jabs) was more a case of exactly where and how deep the jab goes rather than a reaction to the vaccine.
Son #1 and his wife (nurse practitioner with underlying issues) got Pfizer #1 and #2 and daughter-in-law got her Pfizer booster (son hopes to get his soon). Daughter-in-law got a reaction essentially "knocking her out" for a day +/-. She volunteers to give vaccinations on her day off and our 2 grandchildren pretty happy that Mommy is going to give them their vaccinations later this week or next. They don't see this any differently than getting their annual flu shot and they are very aware of the risks of covid and don't want to get it. Son's reaction to his Pfizer was similar to his mother and I - i.e. minimal.
Son #2 in NYC considers himself a busy guy and got the J&J because of the 1-shot regime. Subsequently, he regretted getting J&J because of the relative ineffectiveness and got a Moderna boost as soon as he could. No reaction to speak of.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 3, 2021 9:13:46 GMT -5
Lucky, and good for you all.
There is no benefit to my children to get the shot to inoculate them from something they are already immune to. If they never had COVID previously, then their reactions would mirror what occurred back in February. A blip on the radar. Thank God. I also have more skepticism now that these boosters are going to be required what, one time? Two times? Each quarter? Each month? If we need a shot every week, what are we actually accomplishing? This isn't polio or measles or rubella, really terrible diseases for children with a known, single or regimented panel of vaccination. This is guesswork, highly-politically driven (thanks to our current toxic culture, broadly), without demonstrated benefit for children. My 4 year-old is in a mask in the same school building as my 2 year-old without one.
My parents are 65+, have plenty of underlying conditions as they say, and have gotten the shots and their boosters. They take the required measures to protect themselves given their health situations, long-term situations, and the suspected impact of COVID on them.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 3, 2021 10:48:30 GMT -5
Is that an oblique shot at my Crusader mascot position? Not unless you’re going to mandate all little kids don the Crusader getup (sans sword) all day in school. 🤭
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 4, 2021 9:53:13 GMT -5
Yes, I can tell you the ‘masks’ in school are a joke on many levels. For many of the reasons you point out. I think the idea of masking kids in school is an important symbol - for some. And some folks are very very into gestures and symbols. You "can tell" that based on what? Although I feel like I am pissing into the wind from the blizzard of purposeful disinformation, masks have been shown to work in schools. The evidence is not the least bit controversial. Here is a pertinent reference:
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7039e1.htm#:~:text=CDC%20recommends%20universal%20indoor%20masking,19%20(1).
Here is the punch line, just in case you do not want to wade through it:
"In the crude (first) analysis, the odds of a school-associated COVID-19 outbreak in schools with no mask requirement were 3.7 times higher than those in schools with an early mask requirement (odds ratio [OR] = 3.7; 95% CI = 2.2–6.5). After adjusting for potential described confounders, the odds of a school-associated COVID-19 outbreak in schools without a mask requirement were 3.5 times higher than those in schools with an early mask requirement (OR = 3.5; 95% CI = 1.8–6.9)."
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 4, 2021 9:57:25 GMT -5
Lucky, and good for you all. There is no benefit to my children to get the shot to inoculate them from something they are already immune to. If they never had COVID previously, then their reactions would mirror what occurred back in February. A blip on the radar. Thank God. I also have more skepticism now that these boosters are going to be required what, one time? Two times? Each quarter? Each month? If we need a shot every week, what are we actually accomplishing? This isn't polio or measles or rubella, really terrible diseases for children with a known, single or regimented panel of vaccination. This is guesswork, highly-politically driven (thanks to our current toxic culture, broadly), without demonstrated benefit for children. My 4 year-old is in a mask in the same school building as my 2 year-old without one. My parents are 65+, have plenty of underlying conditions as they say, and have gotten the shots and their boosters. They take the required measures to protect themselves given their health situations, long-term situations, and the suspected impact of COVID on them. Boosters are not required by anyone, anywhere. Individuals who contact COVID-19 have a varying level of immunity, based on the initial inoculum of infectious virus. When these individuals are then vaccinated, they have a huge boost in their measured immunity. Your comments are "injecting politics".
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Post by Tom on Nov 4, 2021 9:59:16 GMT -5
Yes, I can tell you the ‘masks’ in school are a joke on many levels. For many of the reasons you point out. I think the idea of masking kids in school is an important symbol - for some. And some folks are very very into gestures and symbols. You "can tell" that based on what? Although I feel like I am pissing into the wind from the blizzard of purposeful disinformation,
Don't do that. I will also suggest that you don't tug on superman's cape. Although back in 1972 it was a more radio friendly bodily fluid sent into the wind
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 4, 2021 10:29:19 GMT -5
Lucky, and good for you all. There is no benefit to my children to get the shot to inoculate them from something they are already immune to. If they never had COVID previously, then their reactions would mirror what occurred back in February. A blip on the radar. Thank God. I also have more skepticism now that these boosters are going to be required what, one time? Two times? Each quarter? Each month? If we need a shot every week, what are we actually accomplishing? This isn't polio or measles or rubella, really terrible diseases for children with a known, single or regimented panel of vaccination. This is guesswork, highly-politically driven (thanks to our current toxic culture, broadly), without demonstrated benefit for children. My 4 year-old is in a mask in the same school building as my 2 year-old without one. My parents are 65+, have plenty of underlying conditions as they say, and have gotten the shots and their boosters. They take the required measures to protect themselves given their health situations, long-term situations, and the suspected impact of COVID on them. Boosters are not required by anyone, anywhere. Individuals who contact COVID-19 have a varying level of immunity, based on the initial inoculum of infectious virus. When these individuals are then vaccinated, they have a huge boost in their measured immunity. Your comments are "injecting politics". Vaccines weren't required either, until they were. Will boosters follow?
And I don't doubt the efficacy of the vaccines, nor do I think it will give me a mutation, or grow an extra appendage, or get better cell phone reception. I do doubt the policy of pushing folks to take medicine for something that doesn't harm them. Like, the shots people are advised to take before they go on safari in Africa... medicine for essentially no reason. All risk with no need for a reward, type of thing. I don't think that's political, and this is more of the angle I was shooting from.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 4, 2021 10:34:00 GMT -5
Boosters are not required by anyone, anywhere. Individuals who contact COVID-19 have a varying level of immunity, based on the initial inoculum of infectious virus. When these individuals are then vaccinated, they have a huge boost in their measured immunity. Your comments are "injecting politics". Vaccines weren't required either, until they were. Will boosters follow?
And I don't doubt the efficacy of the vaccines, nor do I think it will give me a mutation, or grow an extra appendage, or get better cell phone reception. I do doubt the policy of pushing folks to take medicine for something that doesn't harm them. Like, the shots people are advised to take before they go on safari in Africa... medicine for essentially no reason. All risk with no need for a reward, type of thing. I don't think that's political, and this is more of the angle I was shooting from.
3.4 percent of people that have been diagnosed with COVID-19 have died. Say they are only catching 1/2 the amount of cases with testing, that is still 1.6 people out of 100 dying which is substantial. www.who.int/dg/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-opening-remarks-at-the-media-briefing-on-covid-19---3-march-2020The death rate in Massachusetts is around 2 percent.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 4, 2021 10:43:18 GMT -5
The demographics of the dead is medically important, no? I think that the willingness to vaccinate falls on the same curve... although my willingness to vaccinate was coerced a bit by social and political drivers/motivations/limitations. That's my point.
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 4, 2021 10:58:48 GMT -5
The demographics of the dead is medically important, no? I think that the willingness to vaccinate falls on the same curve... although my willingness to vaccinate was coerced a bit by social and political drivers/motivations/limitations. That's my point. If one of your kids was responsible for spreading COVID to someone that died, I wonder how you would feel about that. It isn't just about YOU but caring about others. There is now a new variant of COVID going around called Delta+ that showed up in Massachusetts. www.al.com/news/2021/11/delta-plus-covid-variant-found-in-8-states.htmlThe more this virus keeps mutating, the longer we are going to be in this position.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 4, 2021 11:03:08 GMT -5
Yes, I can tell you the ‘masks’ in school are a joke on many levels. For many of the reasons you point out. I think the idea of masking kids in school is an important symbol - for some. And some folks are very very into gestures and symbols. You "can tell" that based on what? Although I feel like I am pissing into the wind from the blizzard of purposeful disinformation, masks have been shown to work in schools.Rather porous face coverings and chin diapers are all the rage in the high schools I’m in. That is what I was referencing. You may not have the same level experience- how often are you in high schools observing student face-coverings? (You may also want to re-read the post that prompted my response for proper context ).
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 4, 2021 11:08:07 GMT -5
You "can tell" that based on what? Although I feel like I am pissing into the wind from the blizzard of purposeful disinformation, masks have been shown to work in schools. You may not have the same level experience- how often are you in high schools observing student face-coverings? Rather porous face coverings and chin diapers are all the rage. (You may also want to re-read the post that prompted my response.) I can tell you from being at different college campuses that some schools are good with mask wearing and others are not.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 4, 2021 11:10:10 GMT -5
The demographics of the dead is medically important, no? I think that the willingness to vaccinate falls on the same curve... although my willingness to vaccinate was coerced a bit by social and political drivers/motivations/limitations. That's my point. Many of the folks I know who haven’t been vaccinated are younger healthier types (who don’t see it as a great personal risk) and those with natural immunity (who also don’t see it as a great personal risk ). In some cases it is younger and healthier with natural immunity. Some of them routinely get the flu vax and some do not (FWIW).
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 4, 2021 11:40:41 GMT -5
And I don't doubt the efficacy of the vaccines, nor do I think it will give me a mutation, or grow an extra appendage, or get better cell phone reception. I do doubt the policy of pushing folks to take medicine for something that doesn't harm them. Like, the shots people are advised to take before they go on safari in Africa... medicine for essentially no reason. All risk with no need for a reward, type of thing. I don't think that's political, and this is more of the angle I was shooting from.
A lot of people seem to think that children contracting a COVID-19 infection is not a problem and does not cause harm. Unfortunately, that is just not correct. You have mis-characterized this as all risk and no reward. 1.) Hundreds of children in our country have died from contracting COVID-19
2.) Thousands of children have become seriously ill from Multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children (MIS-C) as a complication of CIVID-19. www.cdc.gov/mis/mis-c.html
3.) Thousands of children have contracted "long COVID" syndrome with multiple complications that have disrupted their lives and education. www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-long-term-effects/art-20490351
4.) Children can and often do act as disease vectors, spreading the disease in families and community to more vulnerable people.
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Post by mm67 on Nov 4, 2021 11:44:45 GMT -5
Public health. Vaccinate to protect not only oneself but also others. Unvaccinated young & old, those with symptoms or unknowingly largely asymptomatic are more likely to get infected and provide a host for the virus to replicate, mutate & spread. And, young people do get extremely sick from covid. The greater the number of covid cases among the unvaccinated the greater the number of infections among the unvaccinated and vaccinated. It's called Math which lies at the heart of epidemiology. Of course the scientists/MDs at CDC and health agencies around know less than the internet addicted citizenry. Dr. Google is the final authority on all medical questions for many unfortunates in this nation & around the world Wise parents would do well to talk their offspring about social responsibility, the possibility of illness from Covid and try to straighten the youngins' out.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 4, 2021 12:18:45 GMT -5
Chu, any death is tragic. But weighing the options for my children, how many confirmed contracted cases for children versus those that died? How many more might we surmise were so mild they were never tested and contribute to that confirmed number?
It's clear the country (and some parts of the planet, if not many) have not banded together in a unified fashion to eradicate this disease, with either a full and global shut-down for the months required (impractical, not feasible, wouldn't have been accepted at the time) or via vaccination. I'm not chomping at the bit for my children to take on the risk of a vaccine when they've already had the affliction, have the antibodies, and the chances are infinitesimal for them to be harmed without it. They may ultimately have to because of school, and then we'll bend to the compulsion I suppose. But there are too many yahoos and crazies that aren't taking it for far more ridiculous reasons, so it's not like we'd be holding up national progress here. MMR, polio, chicken pox, TB, even flu, all those, my kids are first in line.
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 4, 2021 14:14:40 GMT -5
Chu, any death is tragic. But weighing the options for my children, how many confirmed contracted cases for children versus those that died? How many more might we surmise were so mild they were never tested and contribute to that confirmed number? The fact that children and adults can transmit the virus while they themselves are unaware is another compelling reason to vaccinate them and wear a mask in school.
It's clear the country (and some parts of the planet, if not many) have not banded together in a unified fashion to eradicate this disease, with either a full and global shut-down for the months required (impractical, not feasible, wouldn't have been accepted at the time) or via vaccination. I'm not chomping at the bit for my children to take on the risk of a vaccine when they've already had the affliction, have the antibodies, and the chances are infinitesimal for them to be harmed without it. They may ultimately have to because of school, and then we'll bend to the compulsion I suppose. But there are too many yahoos and crazies that aren't taking it for far more ridiculous reasons, so it's not like we'd be holding up national progress here. MMR, polio, chicken pox, TB, even flu, all those, my kids are first in line. I was not clear that your children have already had a COVID-19 infection. In that case, I understand your decision about the vaccine, although it would give them added protection, for a longer time, and decrease the risk of transmission should they be exposed again. I have 3 grandchildren in the 5-11 age group, and their parents are getting them vaccinated as soon as they can.
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Post by rgs318 on Nov 4, 2021 17:20:36 GMT -5
You "can tell" that based on what? Although I feel like I am pissing into the wind from the blizzard of purposeful disinformation,
Don't do that. I will also suggest that you don't tug on superman's cape. Although back in 1972 it was a more radio friendly bodily fluid sent into the wind Also "don't pull the mask off the old Lone Ranger...and you DON'T mess around with slim (or was that Jim?)."
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