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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 8:49:16 GMT -5
Massey makes HC a 10 point favorite at home against the Pards (27-17) with an 82% chance for the win.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 9:25:26 GMT -5
Lafayette does not appear to be the quality team that some expected to see this year. Their three wins were over Georgetown (by 1 pt), Penn (by 10) and Bucknell (27-0). Their losses were to Air Force (by 21), W+M (by 21), UNH (by 6), Fordham (by 1) and Harvard (by 27). The first 4 of those losses were all good games for the Pards, except, perhaps, for the way they blew their win over Fordham at the end. Their 1 point come back win over Georgetown was probable not as strong a game as some of their losses. Luck seems to not be on their side this year. Let's remember the game is at Fitton field...where HC has only 1 win this year (Georgetown) to go with our 2 losses (Harvard and Merrimack). Perhaps it is time to start building back our "home field advantage."
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 9:37:58 GMT -5
The last two times HC played Lafayette at Fitton Field HC lost both. In 1917 with Peter Pujols at QB...and we lost 10-7. In 2019 (thanks Crissisback) we again lost 23-20 with two Degenhardt TD passes and 2 Ng field goals. Nothing should be taken for granted. The Pards hold the edge in the series (17-15) and their record at Fitton is 8-8. The Pards are on a 2 game win streak at Fitton (HC's win streak there s only 1 in a row.)
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 9:59:40 GMT -5
Yeah, and despite our win yesterday over Lehigh, they still hold a series advantage. How could both of those schools have a historic lead over the Crusaders? [Yeah, don't post back "because they won more games." I get that]
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 10:04:19 GMT -5
When you see how the Mountain Hawks' program has evolved, it s hard to remember just how strong Lehigh once was. Lafayette, on the other hand, has always given HC fits and is still capable of doing so.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 31, 2021 10:56:22 GMT -5
HC will have to "up" its game if they want to beat Lafayette. Basing your expectations of a win on your perceived weakness of the opponent is a prescription for defeat. There are still outstanding questions about this team. This team has work to do. No doubt the coaching staff & players are quite aware of this.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 31, 2021 10:58:00 GMT -5
Yeah, and despite our win yesterday over Lehigh, they still hold a series advantage. How could both of those schools have a historic lead over the Crusaders? [Yeah, don't post back "because they won more games." I get that] Because we largely stunk for about 15 years after we dropped in scholarships in 1992.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 11:02:01 GMT -5
Perhaps even a greater factor was when we were a semi-national power in 30s, 40s, 50s we didn’t play them (without looking it up).
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Post by hc87 on Oct 31, 2021 11:19:11 GMT -5
Perhaps even a greater factor was when we were a semi-national power in 30s, 40s, 50s we didn’t play them (without looking it up). Looking it up, these 2 fine institutions first played to a 3-3 tie in 1925, they didn't meet again until the first evah Colonial League game in 1986. Lehigh won 11 of 12 from 1993 to 2004.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 31, 2021 11:53:23 GMT -5
Admittedly, the '80's were glorious years for HC football. It was obvious that schools without scholarships were no competition with the scholarship teams of HC. However, let's get real. HC with scholarships had the advantage of playing weaker, non-scholarship teams for much of its schedule. The difference in size and athleticism was ridiculous.The team did not have to run the gauntlet of competing against tougher, more physical scholarship programs. It would have been more impressive if HC had run the table against other top flight scholarship teams. Doubt they would have run the table unscathed. Fact: Without the great Gil the thrill HC was defeated by Western Carolina. Whether they would have won with Fenerty is not the point. Certainly, HC did not need Fenerty to defeat Bucknell, Columbia, etc. However, they did need Fenerty, if they were to beat a strong scholarship Western Carolina outfit. One friend noted the wily Jebbies played us to make the obvious deemphasis more palatable to alums. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the ride. It was glorious.
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Post by thecrossisback on Oct 31, 2021 11:54:27 GMT -5
The last time HC played Lafayette it was at Fitton Field with Peter Pujols at QB...and we lost 10-7. Nothing should be taken for granted. The Pards hold the edge in the series (17-15) and their record at Fitton is 8-8. We lost to them at Fitton in 2019.
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Post by hc87 on Oct 31, 2021 12:05:00 GMT -5
Obviously without scholarships HC couldn't compete with other non-scholarship schools. Admittedly, the '80's were glory years for HC football. However, let's get real. HC with scholarships had the advantage of playing weaker, non-scholarship teams for much of its schedule. The difference in size and athleticism was ridiculous.The team did not have to run the gauntlet of competing against tougher, more physical scholarship programs. It would have been more impressive if HC had run the table against other top flight scholarship teams. Doubt they would have run the table unscathed. Fact: Without the great Gil the thrill HC was defeated by Western Carolina. Whether they would have won with Fenerty is not the point. Certainly, HC did not need Fenerty to defeat Bucknell, Columbia, etc. However, they did need Fenerty, if they were to beat a strong scholarship Western Carolina outfit. One friend noted the wily Jebbies played us to make the obvious deemphasis more palatable to alums. Nonetheless, I did enjoy the ride. It was glorious. HC beat Army 3 times in the 1980s. They also defeated scholarship teams like Delaware, William&Mary, UMass, UConn and many others multiple times in the 1980s. The Colonial/Patriot League part of the schedule was only 4 games many times during that era. Did we have an advantage ovah the PL and Ivy teams then? Undoubtedly, but we also beat some very strong non-PL/IL teams that era as well.
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Post by joutsHC77 on Oct 31, 2021 12:35:17 GMT -5
Let’s face the fact that the IL has essentially been a scholarship league forever despite what they profess.
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 12:57:33 GMT -5
That's one of the worst kept "secrets" anywhere.
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Post by mm67 on Oct 31, 2021 13:05:49 GMT -5
IL uses need based scholarships which go to all students. Also, their admissions requirements are far higher than HC & other PL schools. Methinks there is a touch of envy. Victories against occasional scholarship programs are not the same as playing against a full scholarship schedule with all its physical rigors. No doubt HC was good. But, in the minds of some, HC'S record of success at that time will always be tainted by their use of football scholarship teams against non-scholarship teams. And, as soon as we began to play on an even playing field without scholarships we began to lose. Admissions is not an issue in our competition against other high caliber PL teams. HC's admission requirements are lower than Colgate's and more in line with Lafayette & Bucknell. Look at the difficulty more prestigious G-town is having without scholarships. It seems some want to return to the glory days of scholarship football teams against non-scholarship rosters. Ain't gonna' happen. Get real.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 13:06:21 GMT -5
They probably don't deny they give scholarships, they simply say they don't give " athletic-scholarships" which is technically accurate as the student who decides not to play/can't play due to injury/gets cut from the team, still keeps the scholarship. Probably semantics but when you have prestigious law schools like Harvard, Yale and Princeton in your stable, you're able to come up with great semantical cases. But, let's admit it, if we had more than a paltry billion dollar endowment, we might very well do the same so that we too could be "above the fray."
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Post by Crucis#1 on Oct 31, 2021 13:14:48 GMT -5
By the way....whoever is responsible for the Holy Cross Wiki page should update to reflect the current endowment. It still shows $767.6 million.
Also, the pictures on the page should be changed to provide a more panoramic view of the campus.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 13:17:05 GMT -5
I thought wiki was the site that virtually anyone could change or upgrade. If not, Crucis, we all know that up at Holy Cross you "know a guy"[copyright by someone anonymous in Rhode Island ]
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Post by rgs318 on Oct 31, 2021 13:26:15 GMT -5
HC also needs to update the "history" in the football records area. There are none there for 2018-2020.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Oct 31, 2021 13:27:36 GMT -5
Here's how HC and our opponent Lafayette have done in their games, using the Sagarin ratings
Lafayette
56= @ Air Force Lost on the road (adds 3 points) by 21 points versus AFA with a 73.7 "Predictor" 29= @ WM & Mary Loss 33= vs UNH Loss 45= vs Penn Win 40= vs Fordham Loss 44= vs Bucknell Win 30= @ Harvard Loss 31= @ Georgetown Win
Holy Cross 54= @ UConn Win 16= vs Merricmack Loss 52= @ Yale Win 87= @ Monmouth Win 16= vs Harvard Loss 48= vs Georgetown Win 56= vs Colgate Win 47= @ Lehigh Win
So HC has two horrendous games (Merr & Harv) with 2 lowest Sagarin scores, lower than any Lafayette score. All other HC sagarin scores are better than every Lafayette Sagarin score except for Laf's opening loss at Air Force Academy
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Post by mm67 on Oct 31, 2021 13:56:26 GMT -5
They probably don't deny they give scholarships, they simply say they don't give " athletic-scholarships" which is technically accurate as the student who decides not to play/can't play due to injury/gets cut from the team, still keeps the scholarship. Probably semantics but when you have prestigious law schools like Harvard, Yale and Princeton in your stable, you're able to come up with great semantical cases. But, let's admit it, if we had more than a paltry billion dollar endowment, we might very well do the same so that we too could be "above the fray." Enjoyed your post. Princeton does not have a law school. The top notch Columbia Law School has not seemed to have helped the Lions roar. Above the fray ? Yep, applies not only to IL schools but, ahem, others too if given the opportunity. Maybe, HC should lose its soul and go full Ohio State frontal, no holds barred recruiting. HA!
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Lafayette
Oct 31, 2021 13:59:25 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Oct 31, 2021 13:59:25 GMT -5
Let’s face the fact that the IL has essentially been a scholarship league forever despite what they profess. And getting better and better (craftier?) at it.
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Post by gks on Oct 31, 2021 14:00:49 GMT -5
IL uses need based scholarships which go to all students. Also, their admissions requirements are far higher than HC & other PL schools. Methinks there is a touch of envy. Victories against occasional scholarship programs are not the same as playing against a full scholarship schedule with all its physical rigors. No doubt HC was good. But, in the minds of some, HC'S record of success at that time will always be tainted by their use of football scholarship teams against non-scholarship teams. And, as soon as we began to play on an even playing field without scholarships we began to lose. Admissions is not an issue in our competition against other high caliber PL teams. HC's admission requirements are lower than Colgate's and more in line with Lafayette & Bucknell. Look at the difficulty more prestigious G-town is having without scholarships. It seems some want to return to the glory days of scholarship football teams against non-scholarship rosters. Ain't gonna' happen. Get real. mm67...you seem like a true Crusader but your impression of the Ivies when it comes to football, namely HYP, could not be further than reality. They give unlimited aid and carry probably close to 120 equivalencies. Their coaches have admission slots. They are basically full FBS scholarship teams.
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Post by sader1970 on Oct 31, 2021 14:06:19 GMT -5
Yeah, I got carried away about a Princeton law school but you might enjoy this found on the internet:
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Lafayette
Oct 31, 2021 14:11:44 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by longsuffering on Oct 31, 2021 14:11:44 GMT -5
A tweak that makes sense to me is allowing PL teams to place a small extra value on an applicant who brings a special talent into the school, such as a champion debater, a world class musician, or a highly skilled athlete and giving that applicant a 5-10% allowance on entrance requirements to enable their special skill to enhance the institution.
My sense is the PL AI doesn't allow this, although I can't say I actually understand the AI or it's necessity.
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