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Post by efg72 on Nov 14, 2021 10:04:30 GMT -5
HC and Sacred Heart are making the playoffs as at-large teams. Jackson St and FAMU are most likely not. Big difference. The SOS of the SWAC teams are among the worst in the country, too. HC isn't playing Monmouth in the first round, even if Monmouth were to make the field. I recommend reading this smart post on AGS about playoff projections, PP: www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?287253-Week-11-Playoff-Prognostication I think you'll find it to be worthwhile. Thanks an interesting read
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 14, 2021 10:07:58 GMT -5
IIRC, regionalization was repeatedly referenced and emphasized on this board in the spring for the FCS, and HC was sent to South Dakota. Different because an entire round was eliminated in the spring playoffs. The field had 16 teams, rather than 24.
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Post by HC92 on Nov 14, 2021 10:08:16 GMT -5
HC and Sacred Heart are making the playoffs as at-large teams. Jackson St and FAMU are most likely not. Big difference. The SOS of the SWAC teams are among the worst in the country, too. HC isn't playing Monmouth in the first round, even if Monmouth were to make the field. I recommend reading this smart post on AGS about playoff projections, PP: www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?287253-Week-11-Playoff-Prognostication I think you'll find it to be worthwhile. AGS has URI, SHU and HC as the only northeast teams playing in the first round with Nova getting a bye. That would mean one of those three is getting a long road trip. Hopefully that’s not us given that we probably have the best resume of those three teams and we got sent to SDSU in the spring. If URI loses this weekend, it should be us and SHU unless Nova loses its bye.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 14, 2021 10:16:49 GMT -5
HC and Sacred Heart are making the playoffs as at-large teams. Jackson St and FAMU are most likely not. Big difference. The SOS of the SWAC teams are among the worst in the country, too. HC isn't playing Monmouth in the first round, even if Monmouth were to make the field. I recommend reading this smart post on AGS about playoff projections, PP: www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?287253-Week-11-Playoff-Prognostication I think you'll find it to be worthwhile. Thanks for the link. It is indeed worthwhile. I will make two observations regarding his bracketology. Sacred Heart gets sent to CA., so much for regionalization. Second, the bracketing of HC and URI is dependent on URI beating Elon. If URI loses, then I believe his bracketing would have W&M in, regardless of how the Tribe do against Richmond, by virtue of W&M beating Villanova. Do you think HC would host W&M in that case? IMO, the selection committee will not do JMU any favors on JMU's side of the bracket, given their FCS exit.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2021 10:54:55 GMT -5
OK, nice discussion but someone posted previously and I remember pretty clearly that in 2009 we looked like we had a gimme last game of the season against Bucknell. It was my first football road trip down to PA because a win meant a PL championship and looked like a sure thing.
Instead, we lost 23-17 and though we ended up PL champs anyway (I have said we "backed into it," others here don't read it that way) and got the autobid, we ended up playing eventual national champ Villanova at their place losing a close 38-28 game. It was my second football PA road trip and likely my last.
So, before we start counting what kind of playoff chickens that haven't hatched yet who we'll be playing, let's be sure to take care of business against the Bison next weekend because if we look past them and have a close win or - heaven forbid - a loss, we'll definitely wish we were playing someone as close as Villanova again.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 10:56:16 GMT -5
HC and Sacred Heart are making the playoffs as at-large teams. Jackson St and FAMU are most likely not. Big difference. The SOS of the SWAC teams are among the worst in the country, too. HC isn't playing Monmouth in the first round, even if Monmouth were to make the field. I recommend reading this smart post on AGS about playoff projections, PP: www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?287253-Week-11-Playoff-Prognostication I think you'll find it to be worthwhile. Thanks for the link. It is indeed worthwhile. I will make two observations regarding his bracketology. Sacred Heart gets sent to CA., so much for regionalization. Second, the bracketing of HC and URI is dependent on URI beating Elon. If URI loses, then I believe his bracketing would have W&M in, regardless of how the Tribe do against Richmond, by virtue of W&M beating Villanova. Do you think HC would host W&M in that case? IMO, the selection committee will not do JMU any favors on JMU's side of the bracket, given their FCS exit. William and Mary is not getting in at 6-5. But they should be IN for sure at 7-4 by beating UR. HC-W&M not an impossible first round matchup especially if URI loses. But I think it would be unlikely. I could see W&M going to Kennesaw or hosting Monmouth depending on that games outcome. And HC-SHU. Oh and if W&M and VMI BOTH make the playoffs, I think they are a lock to be matched up in a first round feeding into Harrisonburg for Round 2.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 14, 2021 13:25:21 GMT -5
To quote Ensign Charles Parker: "Gee I love this kind of talk".
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2021 13:42:39 GMT -5
The bracket is announced next Sunday. After looking at Saturday's results, I think HC has a snowball in hell's chance of hosting. Too many multi-bid conferences with teams that will be ranked higher than HC. And the selection committee is not going to pair two teams outside the top 25 in the rankings in the first round. For example, CAA has JMU and Villanova in and presumably with byes. Next best CAA record is URI (7-3), which needs to beat Elon (5-5) to get in, but URI lost to Villanova 44-0. Richmond (5-5) and W&M 6-4) play next Saturday, Does a 6-5 record get you in? I don't see more than three CAA teams in the bracket.Big Sky conference probably gets five teams in, MVAC five, WAC 2, SWAC 2-3. Loss to Merrimack hurts big-time, given Merrimack is now 5-5. Win over UConn counts little given UConn's sorry state. Win over Yale is discounted because of the trouncing by Harvard. Get points for the Monmouth win, but Monmouth is unlikely to beat Kennesaw St, so no bid for them at 7-4. So no wins against a top 25 or top 30 team or a team that makes the bracket. URI should be in IMO if they beat Elon, which won't be as easy game by any stretch. They will have closed out the season at 7-4 with 3 straight wins, including an "FBS win" against UMass. Zero shot that any 6-5 teams get in from the CAA => Fordham at 7-4 with 2 FBS losses would get in before that took place. William & Mary has a good shot to get in at 7-4 with a win over Richmond, especially with their win over Nova. Would be tough to take URI and not W&M, if it came to that for the last spot, given the Tribe's signature win over 'Nova. The SWAC hasn't sent a team to the playoffs since 1996. Reason being that Grambling and Southern play the Bayou Classic on Thanksgiving and the winners of the East and West divisions play in the SWAC championship game the following week. The league doesn't have a postseason ban but the only way it can get represented in the playoffs is if a team that doesn't make the SWAC title game (and also isn't named Grambling or Southern) manages to be good enough for at-large consideration. Ironically, Florida A&M might be that team this year. So SWAC might have a team in the field for the first time in 25 years. Interesting that the NCAA won't allow the conference to designate their own auto bid recipient (the best of the rest). The NCAA governance changes that push more authority to the Divisions and leagues may change that. But really how many bites at post season apples should one league get so I don't think they deserve their own post season games and an auto bid for the third to fifth best team.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 13:44:03 GMT -5
OK, nice discussion but someone posted previously and I remember pretty clearly that in 2009 we looked like we had a gimme last game of the season against Bucknell. It was my first football road trip down to PA because a win meant a PL championship and looked like a sure thing. Instead, we lost 23-17 and though we ended up PL champs anyway (I have said we "backed into it," others here don't read it that way) and got the autobid, we ended up playing eventual national champ Villanova at their place losing a close 38-28 game. It was my second football PA road trip and likely my last.So, before we start counting what kind of playoff chickens that haven't hatched yet who we'll be playing, let's be sure to take care of business against the Bison next weekend because if we look past them and have a close win or - heaven forbid - a loss, we'll definitely wish we were playing someone as close as Villanova again. It would be unfair to say the 2009 team "backed into" the championship because the team fully clinched the AQ and share of title the previous week against Lafayette. The hardware was quite literally already in the trophy case. However, you could say we "backed into" the title outright as Lehigh upset Lafayette the same day we lost to Bucknell. This Leopard loss was particularly costly because it not only cost them a share of the title but also a decent shot at an at-large. There was talk that they would've gotten in at 9-2. Had that taken place, I think Lafayette would've drawn Villanova and we would have traveled to William & Mary in the first round that year. I don't think, even at 10-1, that HC would have been one of the 8 teams to host in 2009.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 13:48:19 GMT -5
URI should be in IMO if they beat Elon, which won't be as easy game by any stretch. They will have closed out the season at 7-4 with 3 straight wins, including an "FBS win" against UMass. Zero shot that any 6-5 teams get in from the CAA => Fordham at 7-4 with 2 FBS losses would get in before that took place. William & Mary has a good shot to get in at 7-4 with a win over Richmond, especially with their win over Nova. Would be tough to take URI and not W&M, if it came to that for the last spot, given the Tribe's signature win over 'Nova. The SWAC hasn't sent a team to the playoffs since 1996. Reason being that Grambling and Southern play the Bayou Classic on Thanksgiving and the winners of the East and West divisions play in the SWAC championship game the following week. The league doesn't have a postseason ban but the only way it can get represented in the playoffs is if a team that doesn't make the SWAC title game (and also isn't named Grambling or Southern) manages to be good enough for at-large consideration. Ironically, Florida A&M might be that team this year. So SWAC might have a team in the field for the first time in 25 years. Interesting that the NCAA won't allow the conference to designate their own auto bid recipient (the best of the rest). The NCAA governance changes that push more authority to the Divisions and leagues may change that. But really how many bites at post season apples should one league get so I don't think they deserve their own post season games and an auto bid for the third to fifth best team. I agree with you. Let's say the PL decided to have a "championship game" Thanksgiving weekend and it were a Holy Cross-Fordham rematch. Do you think Colgate would be deserving of a playoff spot over someone like William & Mary, URI or Monmouth? Or let's say the PL-Ivy Bowl came to fruition. Would a 7-4 Fordham be more deserving of a playoff spot than teams with same record from much stronger leagues while HC played Dartmouth in Orlando? The Bayou Classic, SWAC Championship and Celebration Bowl are great events for the schools that choose to participate. But they CHOOSE to participate in lieu of the playoffs. That's their decision.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 14, 2021 13:56:50 GMT -5
That's why I said what I said. I'm not into these shared titles.
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Post by deep Purple on Nov 14, 2021 13:59:32 GMT -5
It's too bad the ivies don't participate. It would be great to see Dartmouth or Princeton competing against a Big Sky or MVFC school.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2021 14:05:55 GMT -5
IL folly: The Johnnies would be a factor in the FCS tournament this year but they'll be studying for finals on Saturday afternoons instead.
What is the current NCAA policy if a minor bowl scheduled early in the bowl season invited the Crimson to play a six win FBS team. Harvard wouldn't accept, the IL probably doesn't allow, but would Harvard be allowed to participate by the NCAA if they wanted to?
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 14:07:43 GMT -5
It's too bad the ivies don't participate. It would be great to see Dartmouth or Princeton competing against a Big Sky or MVFC school. I don't think well get to see that happen until at least half the Ivy presidents are former NCAA student athletes.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2021 14:08:38 GMT -5
It's too bad the ivies don't participate. It would be great to see Dartmouth or Princeton competing against a Big Sky or MVFC school. Amazing, when I finished composing my post you had already posted the same thing. Snooze and you lose.🙂
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 14:10:57 GMT -5
IL folly: The Johnnies would be a factor in the FCS tournament this year but they'll be studying for finals on Saturday afternoons instead. What would is the current NCAA policy if a minor bowl scheduled early in the bowl season invited the Crimson to play a six win FBS team. Harvard wouldn't accept, the IL probably doesn't allow, but would Harvard be allowed to participate by the NCAA if they wanted to? The bowls could invite whoever they want. The FBS postseason is not run by the NCAA. But rhe Ivies wouldn't go. The postseason ban actually far precedes their relegation to I-AA. Back in the early 1970s, Dartmouth was the last Ivy team to finish a season in AP Top 25. Paterno tried to set up a bowl game between Penn St and Dartmouth but was rebuffed.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2021 14:23:36 GMT -5
IL folly: The Johnnies would be a factor in the FCS tournament this year but they'll be studying for finals on Saturday afternoons instead. What would is the current NCAA policy if a minor bowl scheduled early in the bowl season invited the Crimson to play a six win FBS team. Harvard wouldn't accept, the IL probably doesn't allow, but would Harvard be allowed to participate by the NCAA if they wanted to? The bowls could invite whoever they want. The FBS postseason is not run by the NCAA. But rhe Ivies wouldn't go. The postseason ban actually far precedes their relegation to I-AA. Back in the early 1970s, Dartmouth was the last Ivy team to finish a season in AP Top 25. Paterno tried to set up a bowl game between Penn St and Dartmouth but was rebuffed. Dartmouth football took the road less traveled and has been lost in the woods ever since. Paterno as a Brown grad was surely disappointed.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 14, 2021 14:46:28 GMT -5
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 14, 2021 14:49:20 GMT -5
Lost in the pandemic was any recognition of the 100th anniversary of the last time an Ivy League team went to a Bowl game, the 1919-20 Rose Bowl. That's like celebrating the birthday of a family member you disowned.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 17:45:02 GMT -5
Not working out a way to schedule a Rutgers-Princeton game to honor the 150th anniversary of college football in 2019 was so Ivy League.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 14, 2021 17:55:12 GMT -5
IL folly: The Johnnies would be a factor in the FCS tournament this year but they'll be studying for finals on Saturday afternoons instead. What would is the current NCAA policy if a minor bowl scheduled early in the bowl season invited the Crimson to play a six win FBS team. Harvard wouldn't accept, the IL probably doesn't allow, but would Harvard be allowed to participate by the NCAA if they wanted to? The bowls could invite whoever they want. The FBS postseason is not run by the NCAA. But rhe Ivies wouldn't go. The postseason ban actually far precedes their relegation to I-AA. Back in the early 1970s, Dartmouth was the last Ivy team to finish a season in AP Top 25. Paterno tried to set up a bowl game between Penn St and Dartmouth but was rebuffed. What precipitated this was that JoPa was none too pleased that Dartmouth won the Lambert Trophy ovah his Nittany Lions that year (1970). Fairly certain that was the last Ivy team to win the Lambert Trophy (not Lambert Cup). Paterno probably had a point but the Indians were undefeated to PSU's multiple loss team. Winning the Lambert Trophy (and Cup) was a pretty big deal back then...it's been watered down with all the league changes, FCS playoffs now.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 14, 2021 18:02:20 GMT -5
Perhaps off the topic but I propose the last place Ivy football team play the first place NESCAC team in some sort of a last game. And if the Ivy loses, they are relegated to NESCAC competition the following year (football only). Just spitballin' on a Sunday. I don't really see that, Ivies in the FCS Playoffs, or an Ivy-Patriot postseason matchup in the cards.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 14, 2021 18:10:49 GMT -5
Great idea...I like the concept of relegation they have in English soccer. Would love to see it in some form here but obviously it's mostly impossible with our pro sports, NCAA leagues...
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Nov 14, 2021 19:02:02 GMT -5
Speaking of the NESCAC, they have an Ivy-like postseason ban in football. They play an 8-game conference-only schedule and do not participate in the DIII playoffs. I believe that they start the regular season October 1st and camp doesn't start until basically around the same time regular students move in.
And the NESCAC is very competitive in D3 athletics across the board. You'd think that the top teams would make noise in the NCAA football bracket as well.
Maybe the Ivy will cave and agree to two bowl games. Ivy champ plays the Patriot League champ. Last place Ivy gets the NESCAC champ.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 14, 2021 19:09:33 GMT -5
The idea of slotting the last place team into a post season game baffles me
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