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Post by purplehaze on Nov 24, 2021 16:25:42 GMT -5
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Post by matunuck on Nov 24, 2021 17:40:23 GMT -5
Been a very long time for HC.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 24, 2021 17:51:08 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student?
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Post by matunuck on Nov 24, 2021 19:24:05 GMT -5
I’ve often wondered that myself.
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 24, 2021 19:32:04 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student? Well, Bill Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar if that helps answer the question. I assume the selectors all swear up and down they are completely objective, but of course subjective factors can filter in. I've never heard of a multiple choice exam with the top five scores being selected. One story that humanized Clinton to me was he traveled either to or fro Oxford on a ship with fellow Rhodes Scholar and future Labor Secretary Robert Reich who got sea sick. Bubba held the little guy up so he could barf over the railing and they became fast friends.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 24, 2021 19:43:24 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing At least I did not read this before Thanksgiving dinner
In the mid 60s when HC had 2 Rhodes in 2 years, it did not seem to favor some non Catholic schools. Bill Bradley from Princeton won in 1965, I believe.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Nov 24, 2021 19:47:26 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student? And out of ignorance I would ask, theoretically: what would Peter Oliver be lacking as a Rhodes Scholar applicant (I have no idea if he applied/was nominated)?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 24, 2021 19:49:58 GMT -5
In the case of the winner in ‘67 the Athletic component was very minimal.
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Post by lou on Nov 24, 2021 19:52:32 GMT -5
Rhodes Selection Committees are looking for young people of outstanding intellect, character, leadership, and commitment to service.
The four criteria which governed the selection of Rhodes Scholars in 1902 are still the guiding criteria for the selection of Rhodes Scholars:
literary and scholastic attainments (academic excellence) energy to use one's talents to the full (as demonstrated by mastery in areas such as sports, music, debate, dance, theatre, and artistic pursuits, particularly where teamwork is involved) truth, courage, devotion to duty, sympathy for and protection of the weak, kindliness, unselfishness and fellowship moral force of character and instincts to lead, and to take an interest in one's fellow beings.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 24, 2021 20:21:23 GMT -5
Didn't bill Clinton fulfill the athletic requirement by writing for the sports section of the georgetown newspaper?
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 25, 2021 10:46:41 GMT -5
The Rhodes are awarded geographically, i.e., a candidate competes against other candidates from a specified geographic area. In Oliver's case, as he is a resident of Massachusetts, the area is Massachusetts, and maybe four or five of the New England states. I can't remember the boundaries of the competitive regions.
It is almost certainly easier to win a Rhodes if one is a resident of Arkansas or Louisiana, or Idaho, etc., than it is if one is a resident of NY, CA, etc.
I worked with several Rhodes scholars, one of whom was from Arkansas (and not named Bill Clinton.) He went from Little Rock Catholic High School to Stanford, to a Rhodes and Oxford. Would he have a received a Rhodes if he had graduated from St. Ignatius High School in San Francisco and Stanford, probably not. ___________
This year's Rhodes' selections may have been affected by the pandemic, with many campuses shuttered and courses offered on-line. Makes it difficult to develop the non-academic components of a candidate's resume.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 25, 2021 11:16:55 GMT -5
Is the geography based on where their permanent residence is or where the school is located?
If the latter, 4 students from little old West Point but within a large NY+ geography is quite an accomplishment.
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Post by matunuck on Nov 25, 2021 11:28:59 GMT -5
Residence. Having 40 percent of our class from one state certainly doesn’t help our Rhodes odds.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 25, 2021 13:34:22 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student? And out of ignorance I would ask, theoretically: what would Peter Oliver be lacking as a Rhodes Scholar applicant (I have no idea if he applied/was nominated)? I just read an email regarding Yale's four winners this year (here's an article: news.yale.edu/2021/11/22/four-yale-seniors-are-named-2022-rhodes-scholars) and those 4 kids (sample size alert!) seem to have very extensive service/research. (Don't know if Peter has that).
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 25, 2021 15:27:28 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student? Myron Rolle was a Rhodes Scholar out of Florida State football. He was in Boston working as a neurosurgery resident at Harvard Medical School/Massachusetts General during the pandemic and might still there be there.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 25, 2021 19:03:18 GMT -5
The four USMA Rhodes are residents of MA (Stow); Delaware, Michigan, and Washington (state).
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Post by alum on Nov 26, 2021 6:31:18 GMT -5
Too long. Out of ignorance I will ask: “Is there an element of politics in the selections?” I don’t mean Democrat or Republican but kind of school or type of student? And out of ignorance I would ask, theoretically: what would Peter Oliver be lacking as a Rhodes Scholar applicant (I have no idea if he applied/was nominated)? I suspect he would have been an outstanding candidate if he was interested. College spend a lot of time working with students and alums on these things. We have discussed previously HC’s two recent winners of the Knight Hennessy scholarship at Stanford and it’s many Fulbrights each year. Certainly, there seems to be an Ivy and service academy bias, but I don’t think we can dispute that the schools attract some impressive young people in the first place.
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Post by hcpride on Nov 26, 2021 10:04:06 GMT -5
And out of ignorance I would ask, theoretically: what would Peter Oliver be lacking as a Rhodes Scholar applicant (I have no idea if he applied/was nominated)? I suspect he would have been an outstanding candidate if he was interested. College spend a lot of time working with students and alums on these things. We have discussed previously HC’s two recent winners of the Knight Hennessy scholarship at Stanford and it’s many Fulbrights each year. Certainly, there seems to be an Ivy and service academy bias, but I don’t think we can dispute that the schools attract some impressive young people in the first place. One of my daughter's is friendly with one of this year's awardees. I would not underestimate the service/research achievements of many of the awardees and I have absolutely no idea if Peter has that in his resume. Frankly, I don't know if he would have the time. Some might be surprised to learn that in the 2020 US group just two of the 32 were NCAA student-athletes. (And in both cases - Harvard, MIT BTW - this was more of a supplement to a strong service/research resume www.ncaa.org/about/resources/media-center/news/ncaa-student-athletes-named-2020-rhodes-scholars) Ditto this year's selectees: www.rhodeshouse.ox.ac.uk/media/46247/winners_bios_2021.pdfI agree that there are some significant reasons why the top schools would produce the most Rhodes scholars. On another note, West Point graduates 250 women per year...for 4 of them from the same class to be awarded Rhodes Scholarships is certainly something.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 26, 2021 10:27:47 GMT -5
A little surprising that while many (most?) Holy Cross students are not only on LinkedIn, they are pretty expansive about what they do and what their interests are.
While Peter is on LinkedIn, it is very sketchy to the point it doesn't even mention he is on the football team; that he is studying chemistry; and his interests: "About: Seeking to positively impact as many lives as possible". He may be more expansive on Facebook but I'm not on that.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 26, 2021 10:33:13 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Nov 26, 2021 11:54:36 GMT -5
Just reading thru the bios one can see the service/research of this crew is a distinguishing characteristic. But academic excellence is just as strong. Buried in the brief bios on a couple of Ivy-leaguers is the casual phrase "Selected for Phi Beta Kappa Junior Year". That is an extraordinary achievement at HYP and marks them as the very brightest of the brightest. In the case of Harvard, for example, there are two more subsequent (and larger) chances for selection to Phi Beta Kappa as a senior - but the Junior 24 is the Junior 24. Wouldn't shock me if the ancient selection board for Rhodes knows this.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 26, 2021 12:21:44 GMT -5
Time for a tangent.
So, I'm at the supermarket this morning wearing one of my many Holy Cross caps. At the register and the lady in front of me wearing a UVM sweatshirt says: "Oh, Holy Cross! That's a great school!" I thanked her and when I asked for what her connection might be with Holy Cross she says: "My daughter tried to get in there, she really wanted to go there, but they didn't accept her even though she had a 4.69 GPA." So I started to try to explain that Holy Cross admissions seem to have a unique way of looking at applicants but probably didn't get into a half a sentence when she said the daughter wanted to be an engineer. I then said, "well Holy Cross doesn't have engineering degrees" and she quickly corrected me to say "yes they do, they are connected with Cornell." So I said, "oh, the 5 year program" and she agreed. So, she then tells me the daughter got into UVM and I say "well, she saved you a lot of money then" and she then says "no because we had to pay out of state tuition but she did get scholarships worth $78,000." My final retort which my wife says that is one of my usual responses was "everything happens for a reason. She got in where she was meant to be." She sort of agreed but as she was leaving said one more time "Holy Cross is a great school." So, thankfully, at least the mother wasn't bitter apparently.
I'm now holding my breath as my family doctor's daughter applied for early decision and really, REALLY wants to go there and said she'd find out in December. If she doesn't get in, I suspect my physicals and vaccinations will be just a little more painful ("COUGH!").
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Post by bfoley82 on Nov 26, 2021 22:48:03 GMT -5
Time for a tangent. So, I'm at the supermarket this morning wearing one of my many Holy Cross caps. At the register and the lady in front of me wearing a UVM sweatshirt says: "Oh, Holy Cross! That's a great school!" I thanked her and when I asked for what her connection might be with Holy Cross she says: "My daughter tried to get in there, she really wanted to go there, but they didn't accept her even though she had a 4.69 GPA." So I started to try to explain that Holy Cross admissions seem to have a unique way of looking at applicants but probably didn't get into a half a sentence when she said the daughter wanted to be an engineer. I then said, "well Holy Cross doesn't have engineering degrees" and she quickly corrected me to say "yes they do, they are connected with Cornell." So I said, "oh, the 5 year program" and she agreed. So, she then tells me the daughter got into UVM and I say "well, she saved you a lot of money then" and she then says "no because we had to pay out of state tuition but she did get scholarships worth $78,000." My final retort which my wife says that is one of my usual responses was "everything happens for a reason. She got in where she was meant to be." She sort of agreed but as she was leaving said one more time "Holy Cross is a great school." So, thankfully, at least the mother wasn't bitter apparently. I'm now holding my breath as my family doctor's daughter applied for early decision and really, REALLY wants to go there and said she'd find out in December. If she doesn't get in, I suspect my physicals and vaccinations will be just a little more painful (" COUGH!"). Vermont out of state tuition is 41,280.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 27, 2021 5:16:54 GMT -5
Still less expensive than Holy Cross:
Academic Year 2021 - 2022
Fees Fall 2021 Spring 2022 Total
Tuition 27,900 27,900 55,800
Room 4,400 4,400 8,800
Board 3,640 3,640 7,280
Health Service Fee 185 185 370
Activity Fee 370 - 370
TOTAL
(with Room and Board) 36,495 36,125 72,620
TOTAL
(without Room and Board) 28,455 28,085 56,540
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Post by alum on Nov 27, 2021 7:05:16 GMT -5
Time for a tangent. So, I'm at the supermarket this morning wearing one of my many Holy Cross caps. At the register and the lady in front of me wearing a UVM sweatshirt says: "Oh, Holy Cross! That's a great school!" I thanked her and when I asked for what her connection might be with Holy Cross she says: "My daughter tried to get in there, she really wanted to go there, but they didn't accept her even though she had a 4.69 GPA." So I started to try to explain that Holy Cross admissions seem to have a unique way of looking at applicants but probably didn't get into a half a sentence when she said the daughter wanted to be an engineer. I then said, "well Holy Cross doesn't have engineering degrees" and she quickly corrected me to say "yes they do, they are connected with Cornell." So I said, "oh, the 5 year program" and she agreed. So, she then tells me the daughter got into UVM and I say "well, she saved you a lot of money then" and she then says "no because we had to pay out of state tuition but she did get scholarships worth $78,000." My final retort which my wife says that is one of my usual responses was "everything happens for a reason. She got in where she was meant to be." She sort of agreed but as she was leaving said one more time "Holy Cross is a great school." So, thankfully, at least the mother wasn't bitter apparently. I'm now holding my breath as my family doctor's daughter applied for early decision and really, REALLY wants to go there and said she'd find out in December. If she doesn't get in, I suspect my physicals and vaccinations will be just a little more painful (" COUGH!"). Vermont out of state tuition is 41,280. If you posted this because $78000 is more than the $41,280, know that many schools promote their merit money as the total of the four years of available discounts on the cost of attendance.
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