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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 27, 2021 23:32:35 GMT -5
PP, I'm curious how you came to have such extensive knowledge of your family tree. Was this a result of research (Ancestry, etc.) or did you your family keep great records of its history? I think this was required by PP's parole officer who was trying to determine if there was a family history of recidivism... My maternal grandfather is the Neville line. In William the Conqueror's Harrying of the North campaign, the Nevilles were at the forefront. The Harrying of the North was a scorched earth campaign. Contemporary accounts place the number of dead, mostly from starvation and exposure, at 100,000. Some modern historians believe the toll was much less. I tried comparing the number of dead to the population of England at the time, and the percentage is roughly comparable to that of the Jews who died in the Holocaust / total population of Europe. Family histories commissioned by the family simply omit decades of Eleventh Century history, as if to wipe away the stain. Ordericus Vitalis, the English monk who wrote the seminal volume, the Ecclesiastical History [of England and [Norman] France], wrote there was no absolving William for conducting this campaign, and he is burning in hell. As penance, the Pope directed William to build the Battle Abbey at Hastings, for killing so many English (who were Catholics).. (The Conquest was conducted with the approval of the Pope, and the only ensign flown by the invading fleet was the Papal ensign.) Three generations of Nevilles later, Alan de Neville is chief forester to King Henry II. As chief forester, he administers 30 percent of the land in England. He was also a high sheriff of London, and in that capacity, he arrested the chaplain to the 'meddlesome priest', Thomas a Becket. Becket excommunicated Alan de Neville (twice, actually). The bishop of London lifted the excommunication if de Neville joined a crusade, and on his way, stopped in Rome and saw the pope. No crusade was undertaken between de Neville's excommunication and his death. As I understand canon law, excommunicated individuals cannot be buried in consecrated ground. Alan de Neville sought to be buried at the Battle Abbey, and the Benedictines were amenable, not so the king. To the monks, Henry II declared, "I will have his money, you can have his body, the demons in hell his soul." So why did Alan de Neville wish to be buried at the Battle Abbey? I believe the family helped pay for its construction, so perhaps there was a sense of entitlement. In any event, he is/was not buried at the Battle Abbey, and I know not the location of his grave. To mostly conclude, the family history is replete with behaviors and acts that should be of concern to any parole officer. There is in my direct line, Baron David de Neville, who joined Thomas Fitzgerald, 'Silken Thomas', the Earl of Kildare, in revolt against King Henry VIII. But before commencing the full measure of his revolt, Thomas apparently settled an old score, which led to the killing of the Lord Chancellor of Ireland, Archbishop Alen. Alen was a great friend of Cardinal Woolsey, and Thomas believed Woolsey was instrumental in the jailing of Thomas' father. 'Silken Thomas' was quickly excommunicated, and lost the support of the clergy, and more critically, the kings of France and Spain. His revolt then failed, and he was hung, and 'headed', but not 'quartered'. David de Neville was executed at the Tower apparently, and all his property subject to the dreaded attainder. I like toi say that Baron de Neville left the Tower in pieces. And to conclude, another Neville, the duplicitous Earl of Warwick, the 'Kingmaker' and most powerful man in England, instigated the War of the Roses, and then switched sides. ____________________ As for the family tree, a good source is a Canadian site, specializing in the genealogy of Newfoundland. ngb.chebucto.org/I have used Ancestry a lot, but you need to subscribe (extra $) to the non-American records. I started on family genealogy at the behest of my sister who was about to toss several years of research by my now long-deceased aunt, who was comptroller of the New York Public Library, and who spent several years seeking to prove an association between my maternal grandfather's family and Marcus Daly, who was purportedly a second cousin. Marcus had emigrated to America from Ireland, found his way to California as a miner, and thence to Montana. In Montana, he founded the city of Butte, developed the world's largest copper mine, the Anaconda mine, exploited the Irish and other foreign nationals who toiled in the mines, became a 'copper baron', and thus became rather wealthy. Not a copper penny of his wealth ever found its way to my family. I concluded there was never a relationship, though two weeks ago, a woman contacted me about being a fourth cousin based on her 23andMe test.. The only possible ancestral relative would be a Daly in California.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 28, 2021 6:47:50 GMT -5
Geez, I was sure you were trying to track down the guy with REAL power, Mayor Richard Daly if Chicago.😉
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Post by newfieguy74 on Nov 28, 2021 9:01:47 GMT -5
Thanks to PP I am now inspired to dig deeper into my own ancestry, anxious to see what rogues, miscreants, and ne'er do wells might be lurking in the family tree.
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Nov 28, 2021 9:30:43 GMT -5
You're not going to believe this but my Newfoundland grandmother's maiden name was Colbert. I tried a bit more searching on Ancestry for Colbert in Newfoundland 1750-1820, and very sparse pickings. The name in the 18th Century in the records of St. John the Baptist church in St. John's (Anglican) is spelled Colebert. But that may be phonetic. If you have the names of your grandmother's parents, you may be able to back into a history..
For the 1794 Census of St. John's, nearly 4,000 enumerated, the only Colbert that I found is the widow Ann Colbert, and her two sons, one daughter, and one servant. Ann is the only one listed with a given name. Ann is recorded as being born in Newfoundland, and owns the property. Just down the figurative street from Ann are eight properties owned by a W. Colbert, and occupied by others. The occupier's occupations are given as fisherman or shoreman. There is no W. Colbert listed elsewhere in the Census, and W. may stand for Widow Colbert.
The daughter is the Ann Colbert who marries my great, great, great grandfather in 1805.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2021 13:01:28 GMT -5
Thanks to PP I am now inspired to dig deeper into my own ancestry, anxious to see what rogues, miscreants, and ne'er do wells might be lurking in the family tree. I have a niece who has done a bit of that. We learned of one ancestor who was cited for grazing his sheep on the lawn of some rich landowner in Galway mid 19th century. I was glad to find out that I was not the first miscreant in the family
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Post by Chu Chu on Nov 28, 2021 15:49:28 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I am pretty sure we are the only sports board in America with a lively discussion of Irish ancestry in Newfoundland and genealogy research!
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 28, 2021 17:10:33 GMT -5
Just a guess, but I am pretty sure we are the only sports board in America with a lively discussion of Irish ancestry in Newfoundland and genealogy research! And, to turn things around, I'll bet that the Newfoundland Genealogy Society message board is not discussing Holy Cross athletics........
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Post by Tom on Dec 1, 2021 8:47:48 GMT -5
Holy Cross breeds renaissance men and women. We can discuss anything
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