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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 30, 2021 9:04:16 GMT -5
While Sluka to Coker was probably not as good as Flutie to Phelan. Or Rossides to Swiacki.
I know one thing when Sacred Heart football players go to sleep they check the closet for Matt Sluka.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 9:09:57 GMT -5
Lentz to Kimener Come from behind win with 90 seconds left in a packed Alumni Stadium to give us a 6-3-1 record (unmatched for many years) in an era when we were a competitive team with BC (Plus I was there and both are friends/classmates)
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Post by midwestsader05 on Nov 30, 2021 9:18:22 GMT -5
While Sluka to Coker was probably not as good as Flutie to Phelan. Or Rossides to Swiacki. I know one thing when Sacred Heart football players go to sleep they check the closet for Matt Sluka. Not to mention how much punishment he was dishing out on several of his runs…#3 is still regretting lowering his head to try take out Sluka’s legs in the open field.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 30, 2021 9:21:39 GMT -5
I wasn't alive, but wouldn't an Orange Bowl game be bigger than D1 Lite with a 35 yard lollipop ball to the corner to beat NEC representative Sacred Heart at home in the first round of the playoffs?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 30, 2021 9:26:16 GMT -5
I don't mean to be poo-pooing what transpired last Saturday at Fitton, but I'm getting the feeling we are overrating things just a bit.
The added significance of being in the playoffs is noted, but we also just beat an unranked team from a bottom FCS conference where we were something like 17 point favorites. It just doesn't feel right to be placing the final drive and final TD pass in the same conversation as some of the most notable moments in HC football history.
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Post by thecrossisback on Nov 30, 2021 9:36:59 GMT -5
I don't mean to be poo-pooing what transpired last Saturday at Fitton, but I'm getting the feeling we are overrating things just a bit. The added significance of being in the playoffs is noted, but we also just beat an unranked team from a bottom FCS conference where we were something like 17 point favorites. It just doesn't feel right to be placing the final drive and final TD pass in the same conversation as some of the most notable moments in HC football history. See can never please people. Here we go. It's never good enough. Always got to find a way to discredit it. Even though it has never happened before. Well its Sacred Heart. Who else were we supposed to play? I also said passes not plays! Can we get rid of this notion that we can be BAMA. Nobody can! Stop taking credit away from the players and coaches. Over rating at 10 win team! How is that even possible? A team that has won 7 straight games! Facts ^^^ Not opinion
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Post by dharry13 on Nov 30, 2021 9:43:26 GMT -5
Why is he taking away credit from the players and coaches. Simply because he disagrees with your notion doesn't mean he doesn't love the play. He's just placing it in its proper context. It's ok to have a dissenting opinion. Having a dissenting opinion doesn't mean it's negative in any way.
I happen to agree with Sons of Vaval. Give me the tape on Ciaccio and I'm sure I'll find a few in there too. Great catch and throw. Great drive when everything was on the line. In my opinion it shouldn't have been at that point as HC should have beaten them by 10. When pressure was on the line they stepped up - Bigtime. He's just saying it is the greatest TD pass in HC History might be a little stretch.
If you were being sarcastic with your response then I recant this response.
He was saying we might be overrating this particular play/game. Not in general regarding the team. If you don't want other sides to your comment, don't post the thread. It's an opinion based board.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Nov 30, 2021 10:10:05 GMT -5
I don't mean to be poo-pooing what transpired last Saturday at Fitton, but I'm getting the feeling we are overrating things just a bit. The added significance of being in the playoffs is noted, but we also just beat an unranked team from a bottom FCS conference where we were something like 17 point favorites. It just doesn't feel right to be placing the final drive and final TD pass in the same conversation as some of the most notable moments in HC football history. See can never please people. Here we go. It's never good enough. Always got to find a way to discredit it. Even though it has never happened before. Well its Sacred Heart. Who else were we supposed to play? I also said passes not plays! Can we get rid of this notion that we can be BAMA. Nobody can! Stop taking credit away from the players and coaches. Over rating at 10 win team! How is that even possible? A team that has won 7 straight games! Facts ^^^ Not opinion Just take a breath over there. I'm not discrediting the play at all. Mind showing me where I said we can be Alabama or anything close to them? It was a terrific pass and a gutsy final drive. As dharry said, I simply don't think it goes down as the best -- as you seemingly are inferring -- in HC football history...which, as you know based on your press clippings posted here, is a long and storied history.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Nov 30, 2021 10:31:33 GMT -5
Exactly. This is "Tupac Syndrome." The guy was killed and the whole world who may not have even listed to one of his songs RUSHED to say he is the BEST EVER and pay tribute. Tupac Syndrome is worse in the era of social media. Any time somebody passes, the tributes are gushing and effusive and most of us are like, "Who?" People have a tough time putting things in context due to recency bias.
I LOVE that HC won. We have a mini family rivalry with SHU in my immediate family. I love that they have owned the PL for the last several seasons. HC Football is the lake, the palm trees, the ladies fanning you and dropping grapes into your mouth in the vast and brutal desert that is HC athletics for the last decade or so. I want HC to win every single game, against every single opponent, without mercy.
With that said, a TD pass in front of 4,000 people against Sacred Heart doesn't make that the greatest throw in the history of a 100 year old program.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 30, 2021 10:38:04 GMT -5
"Best touchdown pass in HC history"-- for me that requires consideration of a number of factors-
Did it secure a victory? Who was the opponent? A key rival should count more, a game where we were decided underdogs should count more How important was the game? Was it dramatic--last second, for example?' Was it physically impressive-QB threw it 55 yards in the air and/or receiver made a one-handed grab in traffic and/or spectacular broken-field YAC by the receiver?
Another one to add to the list is Mark Sheridan's TD reception at Harvard to secure the win in the first game of 1971 after HC went 0-2 in hepatitis shortened 1969 then 0-10-1 in 1970. HC used three QB's that year: Colin Clapton, Mickey Connolly, and Peter Vaas-I can't remember who it was but my guess would be Clapton was starter early in season.
With all those considerations, based on what I've heard over the years, I'd say that Sluka to Coker is one we'll talk about for decades, but that my vote would go to the Lentz to Kiminer TD versus bc.
By the way--accolades to thecrossisback for starting this interesting debate
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Post by hc6774 on Nov 30, 2021 11:10:30 GMT -5
I was at both games.
There are similarities that go beyond 'the drive, the throw & the catch' i.e. coming from behind, 2 decisive field goals.
My roommate 55 yrs ago was with me Saturday. He set up the drive to the Lentz/Kimener play with a pressure punt catch & return. A big difference was the back & forth scoring; HC 3 TD's in the 1stQ, including a great catch by flanker Tom Haley... BC 3 TDs in the 2ndQ, including a fumble returned for a TD.
He commented that '...there weren't many great plays...but it was a great game' & '...Coker made 2 great catches'
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 30, 2021 11:43:36 GMT -5
Putting my oar in the water here, there's a difference between the best touchdown pass; the most exciting TD pass; the most impactful TD pass.
The most impactful pass was unquestionably Sluka to Coker because it meant winning the first, and so far only, post-season game in HC football history.
The most exciting TD pass might well have been Lentz to Kimener because that was a back and forth game. Unfortunately, I did not personally attend that game as it was my freshman year and first trip home since September. My brother was a junior and getting home to see the family for Thanksgiving was a much lower priority for him and he went to the game and told us later in minute detail about the game and in those days, HC-BC was considered by many to be only behind Army-Navy for best rivalry and, as such, was covered in great detail by the NY Times and other newspapers which were more important than they are today. As the '67 guys know better than the rest of us, Lentz was our running QB (think Sluka). He was not noted for his passing. Per my brother (argue with him if you disagree), Pete got behind the secondary probably because they didn't expect Lentz to pass. Lentz threw "the bomb" as it was aptly named in the Purple Patcher that year but according to my brother's version, it was not a clothesline pass and seemed to float and while Pete was well behind the DBs, the floating, very long pass, gave the defenders time to catch up as Pete supposedly had to come to a stop to catch the ball. The defenders caught Pete who was perhaps on the 3-4 yard line and he dragged them into the end zone for the TD. From memory, Pete was a pretty tall guy and fairly large for a receiver and that helped him finish the job. This pass will always be a large part of HC football lore because of the come-from-behind, rivalry game.
The best catch might well have been last season (or was it the season before last) which was a one handed TD grab fully outstretched by . . . . . . shoot, I'm drawing blanks despite the beauty and skill involved and the video was played frequently and might have made ERSPN's best plays.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Nov 30, 2021 11:57:19 GMT -5
Exactly. This is "Tupac Syndrome." The guy was killed and the whole world who may not have even listed to one of his songs RUSHED to say he is the BEST EVER and pay tribute. Tupac Syndrome is worse in the era of social media. Any time somebody passes, the tributes are gushing and effusive and most of us are like, "Who?" People have a tough time putting things in context due to recency bias. WCHC, I for one can claim with 100% certainty that I do not have Tupac Syndrome. Blue Oyster Cult Syndrome? Maybe, but not Tupac. I personally think that Sader Fan's suggestion that the Drive was possibly the best/most important one in Fitton Field history is a better fit.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 12:25:38 GMT -5
I was at both games. There are similarities that go beyond 'the drive, the throw & the catch' i.e. coming from behind, 2 decisive field goals. My roommate 55 yrs ago was with me Saturday. He set up the drive to the Lentz/Kimener play with a pressure punt catch & return. Wasn’t your roommate’s interception the start to our winning drive ?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 12:33:02 GMT -5
Putting my oar in the water here, there's a difference between the best touchdown pass; the most exciting TD pass; the most impactful TD pass. The most impactful pass was unquestionably Sluka to Coker because it meant winning the first, and so far only, post-season game in HC football history. The most exciting TD pass might well have been Lentz to Kimener because that was a back and forth game. Unfortunately, I did not personally attend that game as it was my freshman year and first trip home since September. My brother was a junior and getting home to see the family for Thanksgiving was a much lower priority for him and he went to the game and told us later in minute detail about the game and in those days, HC-BC was considered by many to be only behind Army-Navy for best rivalry and, as such, was covered in great detail by the NY Times and other newspapers which were more important than they are today. As the '67 guys know better than the rest of us, Lentz was our running QB (think Sluka). He was not noted for his passing. Per my brother (argue with him if you disagree), Pete got behind the secondary probably because they didn't expect Lentz to pass. Lentz threw "the bomb" as it was aptly named in the Purple Patcher that year but according to my brother's version, it was not a clothesline pass and seemed to float and while Pete was well behind the DBs, the floating, very long pass, gave the defenders time to catch up as Pete supposedly had to come to a stop to catch the ball. The defenders caught Pete who was perhaps on the 3-4 yard line and he dragged them into the end zone for the TD. From memory, Pete was a pretty tall guy and fairly large for a receiver and that helped him finish the job. This pass will always be a large part of HC football lore because of the come-from-behind, rivalry game. The best catch might well have been last season (or was it the season before last) which was a one handed TD grab fully outstretched by . . . . . . shoot, I'm drawing blanks despite the beauty and skill involved and the video was played frequently and might have made ERSPN's best plays. 1- Lentz’s passing improved significantly in that, his senior year. 2- BC’s defense with a 7 man front was expecting a run for a first down, not because Jack did not pass well, but since we needed only a field goal to win ( and Kaminski had already kicked two 44 yarders).
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Post by mm67 on Nov 30, 2021 12:44:39 GMT -5
Lentz to Kimener Come from behind win with 90 seconds left in a packed Alumni Stadium to give us a 6-3-1 record (unmatched for many years) in an era when we were a competitive team with BC (Plus I was there and both are friends/classmates) I have not been at every game. But, from what I have seen, "the bomb" Lentz to Kimener was the best.I know and I was there, too. And, it came against our traditional arch rival, OMG the import of that game for those schools cannot be overstated. Success for both schools was defined by that game and that game, alone. BC. And, I am grateful. GoCrossGo
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Post by timholycross on Nov 30, 2021 14:48:16 GMT -5
I must try and make a digital copy of the VHS tape I have of that pass. Strange tape I bought once upon a time. It shows HC getting out to a big lead and very little of BC's comeback.
I also have the 30-29 win in 1978; that one would be more of a challenge. It's a coaches' film and has all of BCs offensive plays sequentially, followed by HCs. So to piece it together to make a ballgame out of it would be quite a challenge.
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Post by timholycross on Nov 30, 2021 14:52:44 GMT -5
Putting my oar in the water here, there's a difference between the best touchdown pass; the most exciting TD pass; the most impactful TD pass. The most impactful pass was unquestionably Sluka to Coker because it meant winning the first, and so far only, post-season game in HC football history. The most exciting TD pass might well have been Lentz to Kimener because that was a back and forth game. Unfortunately, I did not personally attend that game as it was my freshman year and first trip home since September. My brother was a junior and getting home to see the family for Thanksgiving was a much lower priority for him and he went to the game and told us later in minute detail about the game and in those days, HC-BC was considered by many to be only behind Army-Navy for best rivalry and, as such, was covered in great detail by the NY Times and other newspapers which were more important than they are today. As the '67 guys know better than the rest of us, Lentz was our running QB (think Sluka). He was not noted for his passing. Per my brother (argue with him if you disagree), Pete got behind the secondary probably because they didn't expect Lentz to pass. Lentz threw "the bomb" as it was aptly named in the Purple Patcher that year but according to my brother's version, it was not a clothesline pass and seemed to float and while Pete was well behind the DBs, the floating, very long pass, gave the defenders time to catch up as Pete supposedly had to come to a stop to catch the ball. The defenders caught Pete who was perhaps on the 3-4 yard line and he dragged them into the end zone for the TD. From memory, Pete was a pretty tall guy and fairly large for a receiver and that helped him finish the job. This pass will always be a large part of HC football lore because of the come-from-behind, rivalry game. The best catch might well have been last season (or was it the season before last) which was a one handed TD grab fully outstretched by . . . . . . shoot, I'm drawing blanks despite the beauty and skill involved and the video was played frequently and might have made ERSPN's best plays. 1- Lentz’s passing improved significantly in that, his senior year. 2- BC’s defense with a 7 man front was expecting a run for a first down, not because Jack did not pass well, but since we needed only a field goal to win ( and Kaminski had already kicked two 44 yarders). When I watched it, I thought that would not be the play that won the game; the pass was kind of low and the type that's usually knocked down if it's intended for someone out in front of everyone. However, I'm 70 and may be misremembering! Gotta take another look.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 30, 2021 15:12:36 GMT -5
Another one I'd add, Muldoon (or maybe Heffernan?) to Cowley to beat Colgate 21-18 in 1983...both teams were ranked in the 1-AA Top 5 at the time.
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Post by Tom on Nov 30, 2021 15:30:07 GMT -5
Another one I'd add, Muldoon (or maybe Heffernan?) to Cowley to beat Colgate 21-18 in 1983...both teams were ranked in the 1-AA Top 5 at the time. Bill couldn't even see the ball because of the sun. Fortunately, Muldoon's pass was perfect
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Post by Tom on Nov 30, 2021 15:40:46 GMT -5
I wasn't alive, but wouldn't an Orange Bowl game be bigger than D1 Lite with a 35 yard lollipop ball to the corner to beat NEC representative Sacred Heart at home in the first round of the playoffs? An Orange Bowl game is bigger than an opening round game in the D-IAA playoffs That doesn't necessarily mean that a given touchdown in a losing Orange Bowl effort is better/more important than a last minute, game winning touch down in a win-or-go-home playoff game. Even at the D-I Lite level. Appearing in an Orange Bowl is light years better than advancing to the round of 16 in the FCS play-offs. In my opinion, that does not automatically mean that every play in that Orange Bowl is better than a game winning touchdown in the D-I Lite playoffs
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Post by longsuffering on Nov 30, 2021 15:48:27 GMT -5
BC vs HC or the FCS tournament. Equal in that they are each the end of season brass ring that is/was available and possible to reach for during their own time periods. So I would give a tie to the Lentz and Sluka passes.
Like BC/HC, under Chesney we have a brass ring to reach for every year on Thanksgiving weekend.
The Orange Bowl is an interesting subject because it only happened once. I'll place it higher than the opening round of FCS, maybe equivalent to the round of eight because there were probably about four bowl games back then. Orange, Sugar, Cotton, Rose?
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 30, 2021 15:57:48 GMT -5
I voted for the Lentz pass but, again, historically, Sluka's pass was better. Three generations of Crusaders in my family and I really "get" the significance of the BC game and that's why I cast my ballot for Lentz but we played BC every year for eons. And played them after that game. There will only be one "first post season win" ever. That's history.
Saw Coker's catch. It was a great catch. Kimener, as I understand it, was an "easy" catch. What he had to do was drag 2 Eagles into the end zone. That was where the degree of difficulty lay.
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 16:01:36 GMT -5
BC vs HC or the FCS tournament. Equal in that they are each the end of season brass ring that is/was available and possible to reach for during their own time periods. So I would give a tie to the Lentz and Sluka passes. Should a traditional, bitter rivalry victory vs a win over a Sacred Heart factor into this tie ?
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Post by hchoops on Nov 30, 2021 16:10:17 GMT -5
I voted for the Lentz pass but, again, historically, Sluka's pass was better. Three generations of Crusaders in my family and I really "get" the significance of the BC game and that's why I cast my ballot for Lentz but we played BC every year for eons. And played them after that game. There will only be one "first post season win" ever. That's history. Saw Coker's catch. It was a great catch. Kimener, as I understand it, was an "easy" catch. What he had to do was drag 2 Eagles into the end zone. That was where the degree of difficulty lay. You should have followed your older brother to Chestnut Hill in 1966. History is not just firsts. Context matters. A dramatic HC victory over huge rival BC historically surpasses a first round FCS dramatic win.
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