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Post by nycrusader2010 on Dec 19, 2021 22:54:33 GMT -5
Which was more painful?
Following Holy Cross Football from 1993-2004, or following Holy Cross Men's Basketball from 2010 - now?
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 19, 2021 22:57:34 GMT -5
Not even close, the latter and more specifically the last 3 years.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 20, 2021 6:35:29 GMT -5
The worst of football was the last two Allen years and his illness (A) had a lot to do with that and (B) you knew that other than a few media idiots that wanted to create a controversy where there was none; there was a 100% chance of a coaching change.
This one, we don't know how long it's going to last. Or, less a chance of; improve.
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Post by trimster on Dec 20, 2021 8:35:21 GMT -5
Which was more painful? Following Holy Cross Football from 1993-2004, or following Holy Cross Men's Basketball from 2010 - now? For me, it has easily been the latter. The sobering thought is the Holy Cross men’s basketball coaching job is probably one of the least attractive hoop gigs in America right now. It has taken years of bad decisions and indifference by the Administration to fall to this nadir. Having said that, I sincerely hope Brett Nelson, his staff and players figure out a path to relevance once again. It really pains me to see the current situation.
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Post by timholycross on Dec 20, 2021 8:59:51 GMT -5
Which was more painful? Following Holy Cross Football from 1993-2004, or following Holy Cross Men's Basketball from 2010 - now? For me, it has easily been the latter. The sobering thought is the Holy Cross men’s basketball coaching job is probably one of the least attractive hoop gigs in America right now. It has taken years of bad decisions and indifference by the Administration to fall to this nadir. Having said that, I sincerely hope Brett Nelson, his staff and players figure out a path to relevance once again. It really pains me to see the current situation. What would be the final straw would be another mid-sized or greater (like 2020) exodus, even if the people leaving aren't particularly (obviously) good ballplayers. If that happens, I'd rather HC commit resources elsewhere than men's basketball.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 20, 2021 9:35:25 GMT -5
If you are saying get rid of men's basketball if there is a player exodus, I would disagree. I would simply pay big bucks to get Jim Calhoun to re-build the program from scratch. I'm sure he could be bought out of his current contract. [In case you're wondering, I'm joking about Calhoun but not about cancelling the program.]
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Post by HC92 on Dec 20, 2021 10:38:54 GMT -5
For me, it has easily been the latter. The sobering thought is the Holy Cross men’s basketball coaching job is probably one of the least attractive hoop gigs in America right now. It has taken years of bad decisions and indifference by the Administration to fall to this nadir. Having said that, I sincerely hope Brett Nelson, his staff and players figure out a path to relevance once again. It really pains me to see the current situation. What would be the final straw would be another mid-sized or greater (like 2020) exodus, even if the people leaving aren't particularly (obviously) good ballplayers. If that happens, I'd rather HC commit resources elsewhere than men's basketball. Have to respectfully disagree. We are no more three years from being good again the moment we hire a new coach regardless of how much roster turnover we have (again). No sense disbanding the program. Just need to find the right coach to lead us forward. Part of that may be convincing the existing players that we’re going to win with those who stay. Even if everyone were to leave, it doesn’t have to take long to rebuild with the right coach despite where our expectations have been set since 2009.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 20, 2021 11:14:42 GMT -5
Every year D-2,3 will have programs that have swung from losing to good runs in the NCAA tournament over a 3-4 year period. Some of the coaches who led the turn around will want to move up. Many D-1 ADs won't want to risk giving them a shot as they have "no D-1 experience" so HC will have opportunities to hire a proven turn around artist if it chooses to.
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Post by hc87 on Dec 20, 2021 12:16:55 GMT -5
Both bad stretches for sure, but personally, I felt that HC football was completely adrift without scholarships...I largely stopped following HC football then...to his credit, Gilmore resurrected the program before things went sour.
Basketball, in theory anyway, should be easier than football to turn around the aircraft carrier....but we've done just about all we can during this juncture (2010-present) to make this difficult.
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Post by Ignutz on Dec 21, 2021 6:18:09 GMT -5
Just realizing this morning that Lehigh MBB has only one win - albeit against a D-1 foe, the mighty Lions of Columbia.
We may not be the worst!! And we could possibly finish with more than two wins!
“So you’re telling me there’s a chance.” - Dumb & Dumber (1994)
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Post by HC92 on Dec 21, 2021 6:20:52 GMT -5
I would love to be able to dig up old posts of people fawning over Mr. Reed when he had McCollum and was hailed as a genius. Turns out players really matter.
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hc99
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 117
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Post by hc99 on Dec 21, 2021 7:47:54 GMT -5
Is it just inexperience or can Brett Nelson not coach? I've watched as many games as possible via ESPN+ and I've seen some good basketball in spurts but no consistency...that seems to suggest inexperience...but how much of the blame falls on the coach and how much leeway does he get. I was excited by the hire at the time and thought it was a good move but I don't know. Nelson seems like a nice enough guy but he hasn't shown much.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 21, 2021 8:13:18 GMT -5
Experience is very important. IIRC many of our best players from the past were not that effective as freshmen. I'm thinking Jehyve, Matt Faw, and many others. Few players are effective as a freshman. But experience goes hand in hand with getting good coaching, which I'm struggling to see. I really want to give BN some leeway as he was dealt a tough hand--many transfers, COVID, but it's getting harder to do that.
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Post by rgs318 on Dec 21, 2021 8:19:07 GMT -5
Newfie, that sounds ike a fair evaluation of where we (team and fans) are right now. I want to see what happens when this group finally breaks the ice with a PL win. I believe that will tell us a lot.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 21, 2021 8:38:57 GMT -5
Because I have a heavily juvenile influenced mind, I tend to think of this kind of example when trying to get to the bottom of the ills of the program:
Let's say a skyscraper is built in your town. It comes out looking like a mess, and starts falling apart right away. It could be because of:
1. The builder hired The Three Stooges to get the job done (3 of the best riveters that ever riveted!) 2. The builder hired some really good workers, then gave them Fisher Price tools to get the job done 3. The builder hired Three Stooges and gave THEM the Fisher Price tools to work with.
It's kinda what we're trying to figure out, isn't it?
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 21, 2021 8:44:19 GMT -5
Or, what if the builder hired one great contractor, one mediocre one, and Larry Fine to get the job done, and then gave them a few Fisher Price tools, a few good ones, and some worn ones?
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 21, 2021 10:34:04 GMT -5
Is it just inexperience or can Brett Nelson not coach? I've watched as many games as possible via ESPN+ and I've seen some good basketball in spurts but no consistency...that seems to suggest inexperience...but how much of the blame falls on the coach and how much leeway does he get. I was excited by the hire at the time and thought it was a good move but I don't know. Nelson seems like a nice enough guy but he hasn't shown much. I'm not so sure about that. A team looks good when it scores and even the worst team makes 25 baskets a game. To me. "good basketball" means there is a plan that is working--the team is making good passes, getting good looks, converting their shots, playing good defense, boxing out, etc. Too much of our scoring is just one-on-one basketball with Luc doing something spectacular or Gerrale Gates bulling his way to the basket. The paucity of assists and plethora of turnovers tell me that we are not playing good basketball even in spurts.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Dec 21, 2021 12:13:09 GMT -5
But as you go further up the food chain (power conferences and NBA), wouldn't breaking down guys off the dribble as a primary offense constitute a "plan" for some coaches? And isn't that where our coach has spent most of his time?
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rose22
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 54
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Post by rose22 on Dec 21, 2021 20:55:09 GMT -5
But as you go further up the food chain (power conferences and NBA), wouldn't breaking down guys off the dribble as a primary offense constitute a "plan" for some coaches? And isn't that where our coach has spent most of his time? That’s exactly right! Beating your man off the dribble is actually considered offense and a plan. And it’s okay especially late in the shot clock. People on this forum act like the team doesn’t pass the ball and run offense. We run side and high pick and roll with a wings spaced in catch and shoot spots, we run back screens for deep post ups for Gerrale, we run motion with read and react principles…problem is we’re not shooting well enough…and when the ball doesn’t go in that affects everything more importantly your defense…
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 21, 2021 21:07:28 GMT -5
So you are happy with the offensive system but we just have weak players?
why do we have so few assists?
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Dec 21, 2021 21:18:19 GMT -5
So you are happy with the offensive system but we just have weak players? Exactly. It’s always interesting when looking at a team’s failures: it’s either the coach isn’t very good at coaching them up, or the players just aren’t very talented. Either way, it both comes back to the coach.
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Post by dharry13 on Jan 5, 2022 8:18:24 GMT -5
Every now and then I peek in on Hoops with the hope they've broken through and had their first win this year. But alas it hasn't happened.
I don't count D3 wins when those programs put up (Exhibition) on their schedule. HC is 0-12 against D1 opponents.
So as a glutton for punishment I went and checked the other 350 D1 basketball schools. I can only find Prairie View and Miss Valley State as being winless to this point, and IUPUI's only win is against Spalding (which is either D2 or D3). Coppin State has 1 win - they beat Loyala MD by 20.
So out of 350 schools HC is arguably one of the 4 worst in the entire country. And there really isn't much of a debate. I say this stuff just to put into perspective exactly where the program is - which is sad. We all have great memories of many teams in our lifetimes that stuck out to us.
Rip the bandaid off Kit Hughes. Go get another Coach now. And it's all about recruiting. No good coach wins without good talent. Get the best young recruiter HC's money can find and hire him with some hungry assistants who can also recruit.
I can honestly say - I can't even believe the program is at this point.
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Post by alum on Jan 5, 2022 8:46:03 GMT -5
Every now and then I peek in on Hoops with the hope they've broken through and had their first win this year. But alas it hasn't happened. I don't count D3 wins when those programs put up (Exhibition) on their schedule. HC is 0-12 against D1 opponents. So as a glutton for punishment I went and checked the other 350 D1 basketball schools. I can only find Prairie View and Miss Valley State as being winless to this point, and IUPUI's only win is against Spalding (which is either D2 or D3). Coppin State has 1 win - they beat Loyala MD by 20. So out of 350 schools HC is arguably one of the 4 worst in the entire country. And there really isn't much of a debate. I say this stuff just to put into perspective exactly where the program is - which is sad. We all have great memories of many teams in our lifetimes that stuck out to us. Rip the bandaid off Kit Hughes. Go get another Coach now. And it's all about recruiting. No good coach wins without good talent. Get the best young recruiter HC's money can find and hire him with some hungry assistants who can also recruit. I can honestly say - I can't even believe the program is at this point. I don't think that the players try for him, or, perhaps more kindly, he doesn't seem to know how to get them to play consistently hard for an entire half. These two and three minute long defensive breakdowns are completely unacceptable. I would let him finish the season, but then he has to go and it should be announced the day after the last game. I am a nice guy so I would let him call it a resignation while still paying him what he is owed. Assuming that Chesney's contract has been wrapped up, our new AD needs to start evaluating coaches right now. Having concluded that there is a reason that some people are career assistants, I have come around to the idea of a D2 or D3 head coach who is ready to move up.
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Post by thecrossisback on Jan 5, 2022 8:58:46 GMT -5
Maine has 3 wins none of them are D1 wins
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Post by dharry13 on Jan 5, 2022 9:15:45 GMT -5
Thank you thecrossisback. HC is one of the now 5 worst programs in the entire country out of 350. There may be a couple of others like this so I'll be kind and say 10 worst programs.
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