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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2021 17:24:30 GMT -5
We've had some discussions about compensation atop the hill and equity among the folks on Mt. St. James.
Hadn't checked in awhile but just looked at the IRS 990 report for Holy Cross. The most recent year reported is 2019 for the year 2018. Lots might have changed since then and not sure when the next year gets updated. But here's where some people stood in 2018. The only reason I feel OK reporting this is because it is public information, as much as some would like to keep it private.
The 990 is broken down by "Base compensation, "bonus and incentive," "other reportable income," "retirement & other deferred compensation," "non-taxable benefits," and "total compensation." For most, I'll simplify and just give total compensation for those who I think Crossporters might have an interest.
Head basketball coach Bill Carmody (his last year was '18-'19), received total comp of $453,041 with a base salary of $378,693. As I recall, when Ralph left, he was on the 990 the year after due to deferred comp. Maybe Carmody will be on the next 990 report?
Nate Pine (AD) total compensation was $352,953 and that included a bonus of $25,000 over his base salary of $277,984. Not sure what he did to get the bonus (Luth?)
Bob Chesney though he was the football coach that year meaning he was not among the highest compensated employees or an officer.
Others of possible interest:
Dan Kim (VP of Communications and gone now): total comp: $270,523
Margaret Freije (Provost) total comp: $398,273
Tracy Barlok (VP for Advancement) total comp: $421,483 including, not a bonus, but $54,087 for "other reportable income" which I suspect was the value (partial?) of her son on the baseball team.
Tim Jarry (Chief Investment Officer) total comp: $401,527. Like Dan Kim, now gone.
Dorothy Hauver (VP & Treasurer) total comp: $462,576
Frank Vellaccio (Sr. VP Emeritus) total comp: $379,477
Two professors made the cut and while their base pay was relatively small, they had "other reportable income" well north of $150,000. Perhaps grants?
General Counsel only made $283,598. You get what you pay for.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.irs.gov%2Fpub%2Fepostcard%2Fcor%2F042103558_201906_990_2020101517377604.pdf&clen=2530528&chunk=true
scroll down to page 78.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 12, 2021 18:26:41 GMT -5
We've had some discussions about compensation atop the hill and equity among the folks on Mt. St. James. Hadn't checked in awhile but just looked at the IRS 990 report for Holy Cross. The most recent year reported is 2019 for the year 2018. Lots might have changed since then and not sure when the next year gets updated. But here's where some people stood in 2018. The only reason I feel OK reporting this is because it is public information, as much as some would like to keep it private. The 990 is broken down by "Base compensation, "bonus and incentive," "other reportable income," "retirement & other deferred compensation," "non-taxable benefits," and "total compensation." For most, I'll simplify and just give total compensation for those who I think Crossporters might have an interest. Head basketball coach Bill Carmody (his last year was '18-'19), received total comp of $453,041 with a base salary of $378,693. As I recall, when Ralph left, he was on the 990 the year after due to deferred comp. Maybe Carmody will be on the next 990 report? Nate Pine (AD) total compensation was $352,953 and that included a bonus of $25,000 over his base salary of $277,984. Not sure what he did to get the bonus (Luth?) Bob Chesney though he was the football coach that year meaning he was not among the highest compensated employees or an officer. Others of possible interest: Dan Kim (VP of Communications and gone now): total comp: $270,523 Margaret Freije (Provost) total comp: $398,273 Tracy Barlok (VP for Advancement) total comp: $421,483 including, not a bonus, but $54,087 for "other reportable income" which I suspect was the value (partial?) of her son on the baseball team. Tim Jarry (Chief Investment Officer) total comp: $401,527. Like Dan Kim, now gone. Dorothy Hauver (VP & Treasurer) total comp: $462,576 Frank Vellaccio (Sr. VP Emeritus) total comp: $379,477 Two professors made the cut and while their base pay was relatively small, they had "other reportable income" well north of $150,000. Perhaps grants? General Counsel only made $283,598. You get what you pay for. chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/viewer.html?pdfurl=https%3A%2F%2Fapps.irs.gov%2Fpub%2Fepostcard%2Fcor%2F042103558_201906_990_2020101517377604.pdf&clen=2530528&chunk=true Another grievance for BG is not being on this list. BN has got to be up there in salary so his buyout will not be insignificant. Was anybody on the list actually a good value for HC? As far as basketball wins per dollar of total compensation, Ann McInerney has to be the best bargain HC has had in years. She wasn't renewed, of course. How could anyone that inexpensive be any good. |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2021 19:17:46 GMT -5
I'll leave it others as to values but it does demonstrate what I posted elsewhere that the head basketball coach makes more than the Athletic Director or the football coach. Bill Gibbons could complain but the person who should complain IMO is the football coach. You have to believe, outside of bbc maybe, that it has to be more complex leading a team of 90+ compared to a team -15 players and supervising many more assistant coaches. Yes, I understand basketball plays more games, a lot more, 3 times give or take. And, of course, if you take into account success, Chesney should make more than both Nelson and Magarity combined..
Climbing down from the soapbox now.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Dec 12, 2021 19:22:50 GMT -5
"General Counsel only made $283,598. You get what you pay for. "
I don't know much about our general counsel. Is there a problem with our GC?
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 12, 2021 19:33:53 GMT -5
No. I'm just opining that compared to the compensation of others and the importance and potential financial and other impact on the College that this is one salary that seems too low to me. My concern is if they are getting someone on the cheap that it might come back to bite us. Thus my "you get what you pay for" comment. Maybe this is semi-pro bono? Edit: See? Your making me defend the legal profession . . . . and that hurts!  |
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Post by Tom on Dec 13, 2021 9:24:21 GMT -5
I'll leave it others as to values but it does demonstrate what I posted elsewhere that the head basketball coach makes more than the Athletic Director or the football coach. Bill Gibbons could complain but the person who should complain IMO is the football coach. You have to believe, outside of bbc maybe, that it has to be more complex leading a team of 90+ compared to a team -15 players and supervising many more assistant coaches. Yes, I understand basketball plays more games, a lot more, 3 times give or take. And, of course, if you take into account success, Chesney should make more than both Nelson and Magarity combined.. Climbing down from the soapbox now. Depends what school you're at. If you're at a football school, the football coach is the highest paid guy. If you're at a basketball school, he's the highest paid guy |
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2021 14:05:13 GMT -5
I'll leave it others as to values but it does demonstrate what I posted elsewhere that the head basketball coach makes more than the Athletic Director or the football coach. Bill Gibbons could complain but the person who should complain IMO is the football coach. You have to believe, outside of bbc maybe, that it has to be more complex leading a team of 90+ compared to a team -15 players and supervising many more assistant coaches. Yes, I understand basketball plays more games, a lot more, 3 times give or take. And, of course, if you take into account success, Chesney should make more than both Nelson and Magarity combined.. Climbing down from the soapbox now. Thanks for the shoutout  I don't think it's fair to say football vs basketball head coaching jobs are more complex than one another. While there are more players on a football team, there are also more coaches (15 assistants vs 4 for basketball). In basketball terms, what would be the equivalent of a Defensive Coordinator running the defense, an Offensive Coordinator running the offense, and a Special Team Coordinator running the ST unit? In addition to coaches, there are also significantly more expenses (equipment, field maintenance, etc. etc.) associated with a football program vs basketball program. Basketball is also in the only Division 1 (albeit "low major"), while football is in 1-AA -- I don't know if there are impacts for what HC may receive back from the NCAA pool for being D1 in basketball vs 1-AA in football. All that being said, I would agree that the HC football coach should be making significantly more than Chensey's current reported number. |
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 13, 2021 14:53:09 GMT -5
I'll leave it others as to values but it does demonstrate what I posted elsewhere that the head basketball coach makes more than the Athletic Director or the football coach. Bill Gibbons could complain but the person who should complain IMO is the football coach. You have to believe, outside of bbc maybe, that it has to be more complex leading a team of 90+ compared to a team -15 players and supervising many more assistant coaches. Yes, I understand basketball plays more games, a lot more, 3 times give or take. And, of course, if you take into account success, Chesney should make more than both Nelson and Magarity combined.. Climbing down from the soapbox now. Depends what school you're at. If you're at a football school, the football coach is the highest paid guy. If you're at a basketball school, he's the highest paid guy What do you do when a college, totally unplanned, morphs from a basketball school to a football school? |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 13, 2021 15:47:45 GMT -5
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2021 17:10:48 GMT -5
All fair points, but I would argue that headcount + budget managed does not necessarily correlate with pay. Why does Lebron James (individual contributor) make exponentially more than the Head Coach responsible for the team and General Manager responsible for the team, salary cap, etc.? Obviously different industries, but why does a General in the Army responsible for thousands of people and huge budgets make less than an individual Account Executive selling software? Span of control is certainly a factor, but market pay is also critical. Our football coaches are typically either head coaches at lower level programs or assistants from lower level programs -- each roles with lower pay than where our past four basketball head coaches have come from (D1 head coaches or high-major D1 assistants). |
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 13, 2021 18:00:48 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Dec 13, 2021 18:39:39 GMT -5
The market comes into play. Low major basketball coaches don't make as much as P5 coaches. It might just be a market thing that low major D-I basketball coaches earn more than I-AA football coaches. Obviously there are ranges for these things and the high end of a I-AA football coach is probably higher than the low end of the low major basketball coach
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 13, 2021 18:46:26 GMT -5
In a free market everything is sold for what it is worth.
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Post by sader1970 on Dec 13, 2021 19:14:25 GMT -5
So, Nelson more valuable on the open market than Chesney?
Don’t know that to be a fact - yet - until to 990s come out and bet ya that Nelson is on there and Chesney not.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Dec 13, 2021 20:01:54 GMT -5
[/font][/b] [/quote][/quote] How about framing it as hiring/paying for the coach to hit a ceiling for the job: Basketball: Winning a game in the NCAA Tournament (I’d love to say Sweet 16, but baby steps) Football: Winning the 1-AA Tournament (we are quite a ways off) If both programs hit that ceiling, which would be “worth” more to HC? In terms of eyeballs (both alums and people with no connection to the school), winning a first round game in the NCAA Tournament would bring exponentially more exposure than the football ceiling. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to pay the HC basketball coach more than the football coach.* *Note: This assumes the AD handing out those contracts is making a good hire. This also doesn’t change the fact that our football coach should be making more than Chesney is now, especially with the success Chesney has had. |
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Dec 13, 2021 20:03:27 GMT -5
So, Nelson more valuable on the open market than Chesney? Don’t know that to be a fact - yet - until to 990s come out and bet ya that Nelson is on there and Chesney not. He was the last time his services were purchased , alas byHC. His value will likely change significantly when he next sells his services. The same will hold true for Bob Chesney whose value will likely increase dramatically. It really is that simple--and it is the foundation of accounting |
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Post by HC92 on Dec 14, 2021 6:57:58 GMT -5
Would be great if we could start having incentive-heavy contracts for our coaches. You’ll make less than the average PL coach if your team stinks and you’ll make more, perhaps much more, than the average PL coach if your team is great.
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 10:00:36 GMT -5
"We're offering opportunity not a sinecure."
"I don't have the confidence to accept that arrangement."
"Next!"
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Post by longsuffering on Dec 14, 2021 11:26:17 GMT -5
So, Nelson more valuable on the open market than Chesney? Don’t know that to be a fact - yet - until to 990s come out and bet ya that Nelson is on there and Chesney not. He was the last time his services were purchased , alas byHC. His value will likely change significantly when he next sells his services. The same will hold true for Bob Chesney whose value will likely increase dramatically. It really is that simple--and it is the foundation of accounting The open market was one person, FADMB holding HC's checkbook. That was the entire open market as it was the only D-1 opening in the country. Encouraged that PVR is at least familiarizing himself with Athletics and acknowledging their importance so he can be some type of check and balance to our third rookie AD in a row. At least one can assume PVR is picking up on the track record of success Coach Chesney brought to HC as opposed to, uh all(?) our other coaches. The Assoc. Head Coach for women's hockey was a D-3 head coach with some success but not sure her career winning record is above .500 and she's not our head coach anyway. Coach Magarity does have ten years of head coaching experience elsewhere, but like Milan Brown, it's under .500. There are no universal, unimpeachable principles in hiring head coaches but why not try hiring winning ones going forward? |
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Post by bfoley82 on Dec 14, 2021 16:49:15 GMT -5
[/font][/b] [/quote][/quote] How about framing it as hiring/paying for the coach to hit a ceiling for the job: Basketball: Winning a game in the NCAA Tournament (I’d love to say Sweet 16, but baby steps) Football: Winning the 1-AA Tournament (we are quite a ways off) If both programs hit that ceiling, which would be “worth” more to HC? In terms of eyeballs (both alums and people with no connection to the school), winning a first round game in the NCAA Tournament would bring exponentially more exposure than the football ceiling. Therefore, I think it is reasonable to pay the HC basketball coach more than the football coach.* *Note: This assumes the AD handing out those contracts is making a good hire. This also doesn’t change the fact that our football coach should be making more than Chesney is now, especially with the success Chesney has had.[/quote] Winning a Round of 64 game in the NCAA Tournament is a bigger deal. The play-in round doesn't count in terms of winning and losing as no-one remembers those schools. |
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 147
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Post by aaa8316 on Dec 14, 2021 16:55:47 GMT -5
Would be great if we could start having incentive-heavy contracts for our coaches. You’ll make less than the average PL coach if your team stinks and you’ll make more, perhaps much more, than the average PL coach if your team is great. I'd pay good money to have a seat at that Board of Governor's table when that motion went live. Can you imagine the uneasiness of the masses at the utter thought that non-professors who achieve their goals would be compensated accordingly? Gasp! And/or similarly, when Kit presented the new compensation (performance-based) model to the Athletics Dept staff. All staff IMO, not just Head Coaches. - Some would cheer and welcome the challenge. - Some would cry, stomp their feet, hire a lawyer, stage a protest, etc, etc. - Some would have their resume out so fast it would defy logic. Ejector button. How dare we expect performance and achievement (sport...not the same old academic accolades HC loves to hang their hat on) from our Athletic Dept staff. |
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