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Post by bison137 on Dec 17, 2021 21:08:58 GMT -5
One year doesn't cut it. Is there a time period of hormone treatment where it will be a level playing field? Or is it a case of hormone treatment never fully makes up for 15-20 years of a person's natural anatomy? I'm guessing never 100 percent, but I suppose it's possible there might be a time when it's darn close. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but in high school and college there's a finite window for competition. It's supposed to be four years - not uncommon these days for it to be longer. If one year of hormone treatment isn't enough, is two years? Will it take 3 years? I would assume that pretty much blows through a high school career and puts a big dent in a college career The recent Harvard study/book on this subject makes it very clear that there is no time period of hormone treatment that will create a level playing field if an athlete goes through puberty as a male before changing.
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Post by hcpride on Dec 18, 2021 6:13:52 GMT -5
One year doesn't cut it. Is there a time period of hormone treatment where it will be a level playing field? Or is it a case of hormone treatment never fully makes up for 15-20 years of a person's natural anatomy? I'm guessing never 100 percent, but I suppose it's possible there might be a time when it's darn close. Sometimes it doesn't seem like it, but in high school and college there's a finite window for competition. It's supposed to be four years - not uncommon these days for it to be longer. If one year of hormone treatment isn't enough, is two years? Will it take 3 years? I would assume that pretty much blows through a high school career and puts a big dent in a college career The recent Harvard study/book on this subject makes it very clear that there is no time period of hormone treatment that will create a level playing field if an athlete goes through puberty as a male before changing. Maybe there is a time period for this particular transgender athlete to realize she (Thomas) has an unfair swimming advantage. And to act on it. I wouldn’t predict an announcement along these precise lines from Thomas but there are other possibilities. Maybe a convenient lingering shoulder injury or an announced discovery of the joys of non-competitive swimming. (Something tells me the trans activists would not be upset if Thomas focused on something else - this particular situation is a public relations disaster and not at all winner for them.)
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 6, 2022 14:52:39 GMT -5
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 7, 2022 9:27:15 GMT -5
I should identify as a 12 year old and go back to Little League, super Danny Almonte style, hit 60 home runs, and get fame and fortune on ESPN.
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Post by newfieguy74 on Jan 7, 2022 9:52:56 GMT -5
As I understand it, the NCAA policy, which the IL is following, states that a transgender woman must have been taking hormone treatments for a year before being allowed to complete on a women's team. My question: to what extent does a year of hormone treatment level the playing field?
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 7, 2022 10:53:02 GMT -5
You have your answer by just looking at her performance this season - answer: 'not very much'
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 7, 2022 11:20:24 GMT -5
The other female swimmers competing in the events against Lia should refuse to get in the pool.
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Post by sader81 on Jan 8, 2022 16:35:16 GMT -5
What is amazing to me is there are people out there who do not (or refuse to) see the unfairness in this entire fiasco.
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Post by hcpride on Jan 8, 2022 19:41:29 GMT -5
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Jan 8, 2022 20:24:02 GMT -5
Only in the Ivy League.
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Post by HC92 on Jan 9, 2022 9:19:38 GMT -5
The Yale swimmer is a biological female who identifies as a male but has not yet started any sort of hormone treatment and is thus allowed to compete in the female races.
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Post by alum on Jan 20, 2022 12:59:55 GMT -5
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 20, 2022 13:31:20 GMT -5
I bet she'd absolutely crush them in the buck-bWAAWWK contest too.
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Post by purplehaze on Jan 27, 2022 9:45:53 GMT -5
NCAA felt pressure and amended their policy this month (good for them) - but here's the predictable response from the IL:
Ivy League executive director Robin Harris on Tuesday condemned the changes made last week to the NCAA's transgender athlete policy. She criticized the speed of the process and the policy's immediate effect, calling it "unprecedented."
"I was shocked; I was dismayed; And I was angry," Harris said. "The NCAA has never, in my 30 years, implemented a new policy that could negatively impact a student-athlete's eligibility immediately. And that is what they've done here."
The NCAA adopted a new policy affecting the eligibility of transgender athletes on Jan. 19. Instead of a uniform policy applying across all sports, the NCAA will use the policies of national governing bodies, which means requirements will vary by sport.
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Post by Tom on Jan 27, 2022 9:58:58 GMT -5
It does seem harsh to change things in the middle of the season, but it does save embarrassment if a genetic male won an NCAA championship.
Would Thomas be done for the year or would Thomas have the option of competing as a male?
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 29, 2022 0:24:50 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Feb 4, 2022 6:02:43 GMT -5
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Post by Tom on Feb 4, 2022 11:06:23 GMT -5
Interesting quote in from the letter the swimmers sent the school
Makes the letter a bold step, even if anonymous, with threats of consequences for speaking out. Not everything that is supposed to be anonymous stays hidden, We just had a lively discussion in another thread about David Ortiz in Cooperstown after his name was published as failing a confidential drug test.
The letter also mentions that the swim team has over 40 members. About 40 percent of the team decided to take this action.
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Post by purplehaze on Feb 10, 2022 20:30:24 GMT -5
NCAA backed down and announced today that they would not adapt the USA Swimming standards for transgender athletes and Lia Thomas will compete in the national championships (she's competing this weekend in the Ivy championships)
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Post by purplehaze on Mar 17, 2022 13:13:22 GMT -5
Lia Thomas at the NCAA Championships this weekend:
With a small group of protesters outside, Penn's Lia Thomas qualified for the 500-yard freestyle final at the NCAA women's swimming and diving championships Thursday morning. Thomas finished in 4 minutes, 33.82 seconds in her debut at the championships to qualify first for Thursday night's final.
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 17, 2022 13:20:57 GMT -5
So much for equality.
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Post by bfoley82 on Mar 17, 2022 18:39:30 GMT -5
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Post by hcpride on Mar 18, 2022 2:45:54 GMT -5
Coolest part of the article is when two different supporters of Thomas refer to those concerned with the obvious inequities in the situation as ‘haters’. ‘Haters’? A well-practiced (and empty) rhetorical label. Beyond that, the article notes Thomas defeated three Olympic swimmers while winning the race. Shocker. Finally the article notes the lack of applause for Thomas as Thomas won the race, was announced as the winner, and stood at the victory podium. (More ‘haters’?)
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Post by Tom on Mar 18, 2022 7:41:41 GMT -5
In today's society, standard practice is to label someone with an opposing opinion as a hater. I imagine there are people out there that would label Thomas' supporters as haters of female athletes
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Post by WCHC Sports on Mar 18, 2022 8:37:04 GMT -5
ESPN headline should really read: "Man beats women in swimming race," and we'd have moved on already.
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