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Post by nhteamer on Jan 12, 2022 14:21:14 GMT -5
......or there abouts.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 12, 2022 14:23:45 GMT -5
Not 2002- 2010
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 12, 2022 14:25:12 GMT -5
Yes, an oasis in our desert
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Post by Tom on Jan 12, 2022 15:41:57 GMT -5
Obviously hyperbole, as I have been to some pretty nights at Hart during blizzards etc, and there were more than zero fans we have now.
I will not disagree that the days of regular sell outs were over.
However, I remember decent crowds back in 88 as students had a Scooter watch to see if he'd lead the country in 3-pt percentage I remember decent crowds in the early 90's with an NCAA and NIT run. Then there's that oasis in the 2000's
Not selling out on a regular basis, but horrible. Definitely not worth lumping in with what we've seen for the last decade
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 12, 2022 17:16:20 GMT -5
Zero comparison between that stretch and the current stretch of lets say 2013 to now. I remember when I was a student, most Saturday games BOTH student sections would be full by the first media timeout. If you got to Hart at that point, you were sitting in the rafters. I remember we'd easily get a group of us, living between NYC and Portland, to take day trips to regular season home games during winter break. Those days are long gone. The decline in attendance, particularly among students started my senior year which was 2009-2010, the SK year. I was in Bethlehem, PA IIRC that year when the first home game was a "black out" against Sacred Heart on a Friday night in November. I heard that one was full of students but the crowds waned that season after that. Boring home schedule, highlighted by Jeremy Lin and Harvard, plus what was then the worst HC team in a long long time at 9-22. But even the year after, my first winter homecoming against Bucknell in January 2011, was one of the most electric Hart Center crowds I remember. And there were always at least one or two home games that were pretty raucous up to about February 2013. BC at the DCU, Bucknell game at Hart in 2013, etc. After that, it's been total crickets, HC officially stopped being a "basketball school". The one exception I remember was winter homecoming against BU in January 2017, the year after "5 games in March" which was a sellout. My group of friends went to that and we went out and stayed in Worcester afterwards. Great time. I'm starting to enter the "acceptance stage" of following Holy Cross basketball. Is it that time to just come to the realization that we're not a flagship PL program, we're not an esteemed mid-major anymore? We're no different than SHU, Bryant, Central Connecticut State, Canisius or UNH.
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 12, 2022 17:33:22 GMT -5
It takes a LONG time to build up the loyalty, and a lot of work to keep it. But it takes no time at all to quickly lose it, and it doesn't show any sign of coming back. I'm glad I'm not broadcasting these days. The players on the court would easily hear my big mouth yapping the whole game with the fans that show up-- or don't show up-- to games these days. Maybe it's not an issue since there aren't even broadcasts of the games these days! I could be persuaded to do it for a fee
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 12, 2022 17:34:29 GMT -5
I remember it was rare that the Hart Center was quiet enough to actually clearly hear our beloved PA announcer.
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Post by hchoops on Jan 12, 2022 18:01:43 GMT -5
Zero comparison between that stretch and the current stretch of lets say 2013 to now. I remember when I was a student, most Saturday games BOTH student sections would be full by the first media timeout. If you got to Hart at that point, you were sitting in the rafters. I remember we'd easily get a group of us, living between NYC and Portland, to take day trips to regular season home games during winter break. Those days are long gone. The decline in attendance, particularly among students started my senior year which was 2009-2010, the SK year. I was in Bethlehem, PA IIRC that year when the first home game was a "black out" against Sacred Heart on a Friday night in November. I heard that one was full of students but the crowds waned that season after that. Boring home schedule, highlighted by Jeremy Lin and Harvard, plus what was then the worst HC team in a long long time at 9-22. But even the year after, my first winter homecoming against Bucknell in January 2011, was one of the most electric Hart Center crowds I remember. And there were always at least one or two home games that were pretty raucous up to about February 2013. BC at the DCU, Bucknell game at Hart in 2013, etc. After that, it's been total crickets, HC officially stopped being a "basketball school". The one exception I remember was winter homecoming against BU in January 2017, the year after "5 games in March" which was a sellout. My group of friends went to that and we went out and stayed in Worcester afterwards. Great time. I'm starting to enter the "acceptance stage" of following Holy Cross basketball. Is it that time to just come to the realization that we're not a flagship PL program, we're not an esteemed mid-major anymore? We're no different than SHU, Bryant, Central Connecticut State, Canisius or UNH. The intent of my post is supported by what you write here.
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Post by trimster on Jan 12, 2022 18:07:57 GMT -5
Yes, an oasis in our desert The really sad thing is it was all self-inflicted.
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Post by nycrusader2010 on Jan 12, 2022 20:37:00 GMT -5
Zero comparison between that stretch and the current stretch of lets say 2013 to now. I remember when I was a student, most Saturday games BOTH student sections would be full by the first media timeout. If you got to Hart at that point, you were sitting in the rafters. I remember we'd easily get a group of us, living between NYC and Portland, to take day trips to regular season home games during winter break. Those days are long gone. The decline in attendance, particularly among students started my senior year which was 2009-2010, the SK year. I was in Bethlehem, PA IIRC that year when the first home game was a "black out" against Sacred Heart on a Friday night in November. I heard that one was full of students but the crowds waned that season after that. Boring home schedule, highlighted by Jeremy Lin and Harvard, plus what was then the worst HC team in a long long time at 9-22. But even the year after, my first winter homecoming against Bucknell in January 2011, was one of the most electric Hart Center crowds I remember. And there were always at least one or two home games that were pretty raucous up to about February 2013. BC at the DCU, Bucknell game at Hart in 2013, etc. After that, it's been total crickets, HC officially stopped being a "basketball school". The one exception I remember was winter homecoming against BU in January 2017, the year after "5 games in March" which was a sellout. My group of friends went to that and we went out and stayed in Worcester afterwards. Great time. I'm starting to enter the "acceptance stage" of following Holy Cross basketball. Is it that time to just come to the realization that we're not a flagship PL program, we're not an esteemed mid-major anymore? We're no different than SHU, Bryant, Central Connecticut State, Canisius or UNH. The intent of my post is supported by what you write here. Correct. Thats why I wrote it.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 12, 2022 22:55:20 GMT -5
I'm starting to enter the "acceptance stage" of following Holy Cross basketball. Is it that time to just come to the realization that we're not a flagship PL program, we're not an esteemed mid-major anymore? We're no different than SHU, Bryant, Central Connecticut State, Canisius or UNH. People south of Worcester should probably support Bryant over HC since they have been more successful lately in MBB.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 12, 2022 23:33:38 GMT -5
^
This is an HC fan forum, not Bryant.
Long overdue for you move on to another fanbase to annoy.
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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 12, 2022 23:44:17 GMT -5
^ This is an HC fan forum, not Bryant. Long overdue for you move on to another fanbase to annoy. When your record is 1-13 against D-1 teams, it is tough to disagree with that when Bryant lost in their conference tourney final while having a postseason bid last year.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 12, 2022 23:47:13 GMT -5
I remember it was rare that the Hart Center was quiet enough to actually clearly hear our beloved PA announcer. The speakers were terrible. FADDR said they were working with Bose to fix them. Wonder if it sounds better now with smaller crowds. What does the P.A. announcer do when there are no fans allowed?
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Post by hceconhist on Jan 12, 2022 23:48:09 GMT -5
^Not the point, and you know it.
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Post by hceconhist on Jan 12, 2022 23:50:32 GMT -5
Zero comparison between that stretch and the current stretch of lets say 2013 to now. I remember when I was a student, most Saturday games BOTH student sections would be full by the first media timeout. If you got to Hart at that point, you were sitting in the rafters. I remember we'd easily get a group of us, living between NYC and Portland, to take day trips to regular season home games during winter break. Those days are long gone. The decline in attendance, particularly among students started my senior year which was 2009-2010, the SK year. I was in Bethlehem, PA IIRC that year when the first home game was a "black out" against Sacred Heart on a Friday night in November. I heard that one was full of students but the crowds waned that season after that. Boring home schedule, highlighted by Jeremy Lin and Harvard, plus what was then the worst HC team in a long long time at 9-22. But even the year after, my first winter homecoming against Bucknell in January 2011, was one of the most electric Hart Center crowds I remember. And there were always at least one or two home games that were pretty raucous up to about February 2013. BC at the DCU, Bucknell game at Hart in 2013, etc. After that, it's been total crickets, HC officially stopped being a "basketball school". The one exception I remember was winter homecoming against BU in January 2017, the year after "5 games in March" which was a sellout. My group of friends went to that and we went out and stayed in Worcester afterwards. Great time. I'm starting to enter the "acceptance stage" of following Holy Cross basketball. Is it that time to just come to the realization that we're not a flagship PL program, we're not an esteemed mid-major anymore? We're no different than SHU, Bryant, Central Connecticut State, Canisius or UNH. Just as a point of HC historical accuracy, I believe that SH game was the last RW year. SK's first official game was at the Hart against Harvard and Jeremy Lin. We then lost to St. Joe's and had that heartbreaker against Loyola IL at the Hart.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 13, 2022 0:00:09 GMT -5
Harvard, St. Joe's and Loyola Illinois as the first three SK games. Our average OOC schedule has declined since then so we are losing more against weaker opponents now.
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Post by timholycross on Jan 13, 2022 8:58:21 GMT -5
Unfortunately, at least under the current coaching regime; we're as likely to see at the Hart Center the St. Joe's Jim Calhoun just retired from as we are the St. Joe's of that season.
When HC restored scholarships, the prevailing wisdom seemed to be that the schedule would revert to something from the early to mid 80s, with, of course, the PL conference games instead of the MAAC. Even talk of playing a bunch of home games at the DCU Center. It never came close to that, and over time has gotten incredibly worse. Part of that is due to factors HC cannot control; although I do think that terminating a large number of long time series over the years made resuming them difficult or downright impossible.
However, until the program is healthy enough to get off the ventilator, it's probably not worth worrying about.
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Post by bigfan on Jan 13, 2022 9:32:12 GMT -5
we could have been in the A-10 but Father Brooks said No. He wanted to get invited into the Ivy League, no chance that they would take HC into that league. Now we are in a league that the fans would rather watch games from other leagues on TV.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 13, 2022 9:36:27 GMT -5
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Post by WCHC Sports on Jan 13, 2022 9:58:58 GMT -5
we could have been in the A-10 but Father Brooks said No. He wanted to get invited into the Ivy League, no chance that they would take HC into that league. Now we are in a league that the fans would rather watch games from other leagues on TV. That decision was made what, before I was alive? What decisions were made in the 36 years since to maximize the path that HC was set off on? If we're so high and mighty, we should go undefeated in the measly PL every year, win every championship, represent in the NCAAs year in and year out, and grow like a big fat fish right up against the glass until we burst out of the enclosure and there's no choice but for us to go to a bigger and better pond.
Instead? We hire the wrong people. We don't grow the program. We maybe recruit less-than-stellar basketball players (almost all fantastic men, so no worries there). That's not on Brooks. Maybe you can blame the next 5 years? The next 10 years? Maybe... I'm not big in the excuses game. To me, it's like the current Prime Minister of Italy blaming Claudius for Italy's economic woes in 2022. ANCIENT HISTORY.
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Post by rgs318 on Jan 13, 2022 10:08:02 GMT -5
Honestly, I find no fault with any HC decisions or actions by Brooks at any time since his death. If anything he has become a distraction for HC critics from saying anything negative about the choices and actions of those still alive. I guess that can be seen as useful.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 13, 2022 10:28:02 GMT -5
OK, so here's my theory with the caveat that I'm not sure Fr. Brooks wanted to get into the Ivy League.
Has anyone else heard or read Fr. Brooks' letter to Alan Dershowitz who was teaching (still? emeritus?) at Harvard? Fr. Earle Markey regaled us with a reading of this letter at one of the Crusader campus discussion groups about what to do about the Crusader.
Dershowitz wrote to Fr. Brooks "demanding" (my words, he used slightly more eloquent verbiage as you'd expect from a Harvard lawyer) that Holy Cross eliminate the offensive (to him) Crusader logo and mascot. Fr. Brooks in no uncertain terms told Dershowitz that that would never happen (of course, we know it has). In my interpretation, it was a "you can shove it" letter but Fr. Brooks' response was much more diplomatic and essentially said "you've got no standing" to demand that.
Now, how much, if any, this would influence the Harvard institution, I'm not sure but guessing it wouldn't have helped our case if we were indeed looking to join the Ancient Eight.
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Post by Tom on Jan 13, 2022 10:41:15 GMT -5
Honestly, I find no fault with any HC decisions or actions by Brooks at any time since his death. If anything he has become a distraction for HC critics from saying anything negative about the choices amd actions of those still alive. I guess that can be seen as useful. Actually even in the several years preceding his death, Fr Brooks wasn't making that many HC decisions. As President Emeritus he did cast quite a shadow, but Fr Reedy became president almost 20 years before Fr Brooks died
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Post by nhteamer on Jan 13, 2022 10:52:07 GMT -5
"I find no fault with any HC decisions or actions by Brooks at any time since his death." Very true; while alive Fr Brooks made the worst athletic decisions in the history of college sports; bar none. Indeed, subsequent to his death, he has made no bad decisions.
So the trend is positive.
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