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Post by bfoley82 on Jan 25, 2022 17:16:55 GMT -5
Curious. I think HC and AU are in pretty similar buckets right now-trending in the bad wrong direction, alumni interest waning, student attendance dwindling, not much sense that the administration knows how to turn it around. Is this a school/university problem, or a PL problem? I think Bucknell will get back to being Bucknell pretty quickly after they cashier Davis and hire somebody good. But I'm not sure the same can be said for HC/AU. Nor do I think that Lafayette is going to get markedly better post-FOH, and Lehigh's not a whole lot better. And I don't know that Loyola can hold onto Hardy much longer. I tend to think the PL isn't all that bad a conference, but the numbers this season...geez. Makes me wonder. I see student attendance dwindling everywhere though....young adults just aren't interested in sports as much as they were 20-40 years ago.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 25, 2022 17:27:59 GMT -5
Build a winner and they will come?
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Post by efg72 on Jan 25, 2022 17:47:10 GMT -5
I think if we get an established coach, pay him well, this current group wins 16 games Year one and makes it to the semis Crazy?? Look how many games we lost due to mismanagement and youthful arrogance As hoops said the assistants are that and do what they are told
Hire a well established coach looking for a fresh start, make Evans an Asst HC, with a 5 year plan
There is nothing strategic in our athletic programs and we can make hoops the first. Football was blessed to get Chesney and that doesn’t happen every day
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Post by WorcesterGray on Jan 25, 2022 18:07:02 GMT -5
If Nelson goes, his staff should go as well, except for one to ease the transition.
Maybe Evans, but it's only fair to let Coach Sachs make that decision. . . .
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 25, 2022 18:14:13 GMT -5
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Jan 25, 2022 18:40:57 GMT -5
Can you imagine what a coach who excelled at player development could do with a player with the raw talent level of Kyrell Luc?
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Post by efg72 on Jan 25, 2022 19:07:56 GMT -5
If Nelson goes, his staff should go as well, except for one to ease the transition. Maybe Evans, but it's only fair to let Coach Sachs make that decision. . . . Call him he will return in a nano second
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Post by Crucis#1 on Jan 25, 2022 19:32:12 GMT -5
Andy should have been given the job instead of SK.
The allure of ND or the Big East coaching tree is often fools gold.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 25, 2022 22:39:39 GMT -5
Andy should have been given the job instead of SK. The allure of ND or the Big East coaching tree is often fools gold. "All he does is win" They said that about Flutie when people pointed out his dimensions. Andy has won more consistently than Doug.
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Post by A Clock Tower Purple on Jan 25, 2022 22:59:25 GMT -5
Wut?
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 26, 2022 11:02:29 GMT -5
My Gosh, In my lifetime basketball was HC's marquis sport. I hope with all my heart that the posters are correct. I was addicted to the HC great and incredibly fine man, the all time great Bob Cousy. I saw Tom Heinsohn at the Rose Hill Gym in '56 or '55. My first cousin HC'59 complained about the break USF's all time great and one of my favorites, Bill Russell got in the Holiday Festival in America's most famous arena, MSG. Would read the Celtics boxscore on an almost daily basis and rooted for Cousy & Heinsohn. I followed Jack the Shot's scoring. I avidly read in the now defunct NY Journal American about HC's tough loss to Providence in the NIT. I went to every home game in college. Suffered the indignity of our loss to nasty BC art Roberts. I was pissed by the behavior of their crude fans.I saw Joe Kelly, the great Wendelkin, Hochstein, the great Siudut, Murray, Perry, and so many of our recent great players and fine men. I gloried in the great Blaney, my classmate Willard. As an alum I closely followed the team & went to every game in the NY area and a few in the old Hart. I don't expect a return to glory. I believe the players on this team are fine young men and talented players. I do take pride in them. They are young. They need positive, supportive coaching. I believe BN is a fine young man.I wish Nelson well..They need our respect and, yes, love. I don't want to see HC suffer further setbacks whether by prematurely firing BN or failing to move on. I don't have any answers. All I have is disappointment and hurt. All I have is my lifetime love of HC b-ball, All I have is my love of HC. Corny mm I smiled as I read your post. It brought back many wonderful memories.
But....and it's a big BUT.....if we ever want to return to the success that the RW teams enjoyed, we need to make some tough decisions soon. IMO Coach Nelson is NEVER going to get us there. He may be a wonderful human being.....but he's shown over 2 1/2 years that he is not the guy who is going to get this program back on the right track. Look at the results. He is WAY over his head. I wish him and his family the best but he cannot be allowed to continue to run this program further into the ground.
Actually the person we should most regret hiring was former AD Marcus Blossom. Clearly his most important decision during his short time at HC was hiring the new basketball coach. As Kramer on Seinfeld used to scream "Well you blew it, buddy!"
Then Blossom leaves on short notice and Kit Hughes is now faced with cleaning up the mess he created. Too bad there isn't a clawback clause in his contract because he did some pretty serious damage to the hoop program at HC.
Enough venting.
Let's see if we can get a win tonight at American. Maybe that will get us going and we will finish the season strong. Nothing would make me happier than to be totally off base with my assessment. I just see no reason at this point to think this hope is even remotely realistic.
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Post by mm67 on Jan 26, 2022 11:45:04 GMT -5
crusader 1970 I get it. Times change. But, I am bewildered. At my 25th back in '92 I engaged with a fine gentleman (an MD), class of '52. He was upset that HC b-ball did not have the large footprint as it did in his day. And, he finished with something like this, HC had great basketball And was the finest Catholic college in America. We had students who were great players and fine students, He left an indelible impression. But TBT I didn't fully get it. And, today I understand. I remember in my senior year of HS looking at the HC pamphlet with the great George Blaney being carried off as a player by his teammates. It was wonderful. God, I loved it. HC was special in the cosmos of college athletics. Back in the day I told my late wife (Columbia grad) that whenever I met an HC grad there was immediate respect. She smiled and agreed. Through her contact with the school she grew to respect & love HC. Anyone who could survive those frigid nights on the hill and the unrelenting rigor of the Jesuits was special. Today, I feel the same about our recent alums and current crop of HC students. I respect & love them all. HC is gold. I am dumbfounded. Why doesn't the old paradigm work today in b-ball & other areas? Rant concluded.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 26, 2022 12:56:23 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more I think it's unlikely Kit will make a change after this season; unless there are multiple non-senior transfers, and the games start to become blowouts down the stretch. As has been mentioned, there is the buyout. Also, if you look at it through CBN's eyes, one can anticipate the case he will make when he sits down with Kit:
"You know, Kit, with our young group, last season really put us behind the 8 ball. I mean, our sophomore class, the one I'm really counting on, only got to play against 4-5 teams because of the wacky schedule. We really needed to work with Louth, and we couldn't even get him to campus with other guys till later. But, I was feeling pretty good this past summer. We're bringing back so many guys; RJ was looking like our leader - that Lindy's magazine named him the best playmaker in the PL!. Then, I find out he needs surgery and won't be ready for the beginning of the season. Then I don't have GG or Bubba in the preseason either. So, we're really scrambling to put a team out there. I get GG back, but it really took till midseason for him to get totally back. You saw the difference in his game after that.
RJ got back, but it just wasn't going to happen, so we shut it down. Thought I could get Dorsey in there at the point, but he goes down. Had to play several games without a point guard, with a group that was mostly playing in front of fans for the first time. Took our lumps, but look at this - we cut down our turnovers by 2 a game in our last 10 games, we were in every single game as well. I really think we are close to turning a corner, and I'm confident RJ is going to be 100% going forward. Recruiting wise, I feel we've made inroads with the local preps. Got a really nice perimeter player coming in next year, and we're in the running for a quality big. I really feel like we're about to take off."
I can just see it being spun this way, and like it or not, there is some truth woven in. I'm just thinking a change is a longshot before year 4.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 26, 2022 13:02:08 GMT -5
agree there is plenty of truth to it-- but no matter how much truth to it I still see a deer looking into the headlights of an oncoming vehicle when I watch him during the games. Could they be related? Possibly, but I doubt there is a connection between his being lost and the pieces that have gone south on him.
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Post by longsuffering on Jan 26, 2022 13:13:15 GMT -5
Maybe Dave is right. An AD who sticks with a coach who then turns it around is in a much happier place than if he axes a coach, pays one or two years of dead money, hires a new coach and then has to do the same thing in two or three years.
Undergraduate transfers out may end up being the key determinate as you mentioned.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 26, 2022 14:00:25 GMT -5
I always hand it to Dave for being the optimist.
4-5 teams played last year? Yep. 16 games and a 5-11 record. You can argue they were the "best" of the PL in that module but you'd still be up against the argument that they were PL teams, not ACC or Big East teams. Peers. And a 3 win first full season. Yes, lost a lot of players (and I admit I'm in the camp that he was, at least partially, at fault for that). Inexperience and injuries? I'm sure that only happened to Brett Nelson and Holy Cross.
The bottom line is that I'm betting how the rest of the season goes will determine Nelson's fate. If there is not significant improvement, and that doesn't mean he wins another 2-3 games, he should be shown the door. No excuses. His players. His assistants. His game plans. His in-game adjustments. He owns it and the results. And the consequences.
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Post by trimster on Jan 26, 2022 14:33:22 GMT -5
I don’t expect many more wins the rest of the way, (we haven’t played the iron of the league save once against Navy), but I am in Dave’s camp. I just don’t see HC firing BN without giving the group of 7 that will be juniors next year, a chance to turn it around as upperclassman.
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Post by efg72 on Jan 26, 2022 14:54:12 GMT -5
The alternative could be true as well- move now so the upperclassman dont have to start over with a new coach as seniors
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Jan 26, 2022 15:22:14 GMT -5
I always hand it to Dave for being the optimist. 4-5 teams played last year? Yep. 16 games and a 5-11 record. You can argue they were the "best" of the PL in that module but you'd still be up against the argument that they were PL teams, not ACC or Big East teams. Peers. And a 3 win first full season. Yes, lost a lot of players (and I admit I'm in the camp that he was, at least partially, at fault for that). Inexperience and injuries? I'm sure that only happened to Brett Nelson and Holy Cross. The bottom line is that I'm betting how the rest of the season goes will determine Nelson's fate. If there is not significant improvement, and that doesn't mean he wins another 2-3 games, he should be shown the door. No excuses. His players. His assistants. His game plans. His in-game adjustments. He owns it and the results. And the consequences. Just to clarify - not my thoughts; just trying to put myself in CBN's head when he sits down with Kit at the end of the season. He's got to sell his program SOMEHOW if he wants to stay. I say he plays a combo card of youth/Covid. He's not exactly holding 4 aces in his hand.
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Post by Tom on Jan 26, 2022 15:33:06 GMT -5
Professionally speaking, there are many who think it's more like aces and eights
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Post by trimster on Jan 26, 2022 15:35:29 GMT -5
The alternative could be true as well- move now so the upperclassman dont have to start over with a new coach as seniors I was going to say many of them could leave this Spring if Nelson is fired/leaves but who knows how many of them would have a place to go unless they transfer down a division like Niego did.
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Post by sader1970 on Jan 26, 2022 15:50:25 GMT -5
. Wild Bill's "Dead Man's Hand!" Well played, Tom.* Dead man walking? And, yes, Dave, I understood your post was not necessarily your personal thoughts but how BN might spin his situation. Still, one needed to be an optimist to come up with that!
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 26, 2022 16:29:31 GMT -5
"You know, Kit, with our young group, last season really put us behind the 8 ball. I mean, our sophomore class, the one I'm really counting on, only got to play against 4-5 teams because of the wacky schedule. We really needed to work with Louth, and we couldn't even get him to campus with other guys till later. But, I was feeling pretty good this past summer. We're bringing back so many guys; RJ was looking like our leader - that Lindy's magazine named him the best playmaker in the PL!. Then, I find out he needs surgery and won't be ready for the beginning of the season. Then I don't have GG or Bubba in the preseason either. So, we're really scrambling to put a team out there. I get GG back, but it really took till midseason for him to get totally back. You saw the difference in his game after that.
RJ got back, but it just wasn't going to happen, so we shut it down. Thought I could get Dorsey in there at the point, but he goes down. Had to play several games without a point guard, with a group that was mostly playing in front of fans for the first time. Took our lumps, but look at this - we cut down our turnovers by 2 a game in our last 10 games, we were in every single game as well. I really think we are close to turning a corner, and I'm confident RJ is going to be 100% going forward. Recruiting wise, I feel we've made inroads with the local preps. Got a really nice perimeter player coming in next year, and we're in the running for a quality big. I really feel like we're about to take off."
(Assuming no significant improvement over the remainder of the season)
Kit replies:
"Thank you, Brett. Nothing you have said surprised me at all. It is a young team and it has been very difficult navigating around the Covid issues. That said, if your team won at least 10 games this year, I could acknowledge the improvement. But Brett, you finished 6-25 (assuming 3 more wins) and 2 of those wins were against Div III competition. Over your 3 years in the position your teams are 14-65.
Our goal here at HC is to be competitive every year in the Patriot League and every few years secure an NCAA berth. If you are being truthful, I don't believe you can look me in the eye and tell me that you see that as likely.. Accordingly, we have decided to go in a different direction and..........."
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Post by timholycross on Jan 26, 2022 17:38:04 GMT -5
Here's something that I noticed and got the stats to show it (regarding the way the team starts games).
17 games. Been ahead at the first time out 5 of them; yes, 2 were against D3 but MSV by only a point. Average number of points, 5.3 opponent average 8.7. Throw out the Regis, MSV and Fairfield games; where HC totaled 30 points, and it's a much worse picture. 4.4 average which extrapolated out to a full ballgame is 44 points. Six times 3 points or less, once didn't score at all (Bryant). Six games the opponents broke double figures before the first time out. Biggest deficits were 11, 9 and 8 points.
Funny thing is the games we got behind by a lot, only one of them were we never in, BC. Bucknell was close; Fairfield pulled ahead at the half then fell apart in the second half.
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Post by crusader1970 on Jan 26, 2022 18:28:58 GMT -5
Here's something that I noticed and got the stats to show it (regarding the way the team starts games). 17 games. Been ahead at the first time out 5 of them; yes, 2 were against D3 but MSV by only a point. Average number of points, 5.3 opponent average 8.7. Throw out the Regis, MSV and Fairfield games; where HC totaled 30 points, and it's a much worse picture. 4.4 average which extrapolated out to a full ballgame is 44 points. Six times 3 points or less, once didn't score at all (Bryant). Six games the opponents broke double figures before the first time out. Biggest deficits were 11, 9 and 8 points. Funny thing is the games we got behind by a lot, only one of them were we never in, BC. Bucknell was close; Fairfield pulled ahead at the half then fell apart in the second half. Nelson is very aware of this. The announcers actually discussed this last game and said that Nelson was putting more emphasis in practice on coming out strong.
Result: We went down last game 8-2 and 20-9.
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