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Post by HC92 on Mar 25, 2022 20:40:27 GMT -5
There really is no decision. Is there anything that the coach has done to give one hope? Just one thing! Has he recruited well? His players don’t graduate. I need to understand? Only reasons to keep him are if you don’t want to pay two coaches or you don’t think you can get the right guy this year.
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Post by Ignutz on Mar 25, 2022 21:39:23 GMT -5
Based on Torey’s many years of playing experience and the fact that he’s an alum and, I believe, would use his love for the program to be a great recruiter, I would heartily endorse his hiring as the Associate Head Coach and chief recruiter.
Even though a lot of posters would be unwilling to hire another long-time assistant into his first head coaching gig, I’d would take a long, hard look at an assistant whose season ended about an hour ago - Brian Blaney.
Brian has been at Ed Cooley’s elbow for about fifteen years - at Fairfield and Providence. I don’t think you could get a better-tied tandem to HC than Brian and Torey.
Maybe a bit outside the box, but it feels right to me, and, in my mind, would be the best coaching situation since HOFer RW.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 26, 2022 4:04:30 GMT -5
Andy Saaachs, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap, Andy Saaachs, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap!
But GET Torey in here in some official capacity......it has to happen!
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Post by timholycross on Mar 26, 2022 6:09:51 GMT -5
There really is no decision. Is there anything that the coach has done to give one hope? Just one thing! Has he recruited well? His players don’t graduate. I need to understand? Only reasons to keep him are if you don’t want to pay two coaches or you don’t think you can get the right guy this year. Even some youngster who'd listen to Nelson's sales pitch would not come to a school with a 100% lame duck coaching staff. Bizarre at it sounds, to recruit anyone; they'd almost have to extend him a year or two and then pay him off more. Hopefully there's enough intelligent life in decision-making positions to realize they're going to save money by paying him off now, not to mention perhaps avoiding another 3-29 disaster.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 26, 2022 6:17:17 GMT -5
There really is no decision. Is there anything that the coach has done to give one hope? Just one thing! Has he recruited well? His players don’t graduate. I need to understand? I think, based on the time you posted this; you got sick of watching all the bricks the Friars were throwing up (an HC-like 8 points in 18 minutes) and chimed in here.....glad to see that the Friars finally hit their stride and gave Kansas a hell of a ballgame. One bad stretch w/about 3 minutes to go- an offensive foul, a missed open look, an alley oop....all she wrote, as Al McGuire once said.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 27, 2022 21:31:24 GMT -5
Andy Saaachs, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap, Andy Saaachs, clap, clap, clap-clap-clap! But GET Torey in here in some official capacity......it has to happen! I clap, clap, clap-clap-clap! during every national search. Nothing yet.
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Post by kot1972 on Mar 28, 2022 12:53:25 GMT -5
I can't imagine Bill Doran and RP the younger aren't aware of what a dumpstah fiah has broken out. Jr. would probably clear any comments with Sr. Besides, when has he ever criticized anything at HC? He's not exactly Shank Shaugnessy.🙂 You would have thought their input was sought/given for the last 2 hires. BOT, AD and advising committee have done a terrible job. I am not sure all the transfer portal requests are over, especially if BN is fired. We are going to need 8 to 10 new players by September 2024. Let Coach Nelson go, hire a new coach 40 to 50 years old with a proven record of winning somewhere and support him with a staff of 1 or 2 former HC players. Next year's team with Coach Nelson will be 500 at best and you will be looking for a new coach anyway, late in the recruiting cycle for 2023 and behind the curve on the 2024 class. Bite the bullet now and start the rebuild. KOT 72
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Post by joe on Mar 28, 2022 13:03:36 GMT -5
When are we going to get an announcement?
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Post by timholycross on Mar 28, 2022 13:10:47 GMT -5
You would have thought their input was sought/given for the last 2 hires. BOT, AD and advising committee have done a terrible job. I am not sure all the transfer portal requests are over, especially if BN is fired. We are going to need 8 to 10 new players by September 2024. Let Coach Nelson go, hire a new coach 40 to 50 years old with a proven record of winning somewhere and support him with a staff of 1 or 2 former HC players. Next year's team with Coach Nelson will be 500 at best and you will be looking for a new coach anyway, late in the recruiting cycle for 2023 and behind the curve on the 2024 class. Bite the bullet now and start the rebuild. KOT 72 .500 at best? That's being an optimist. Gates cannot be depended upon to score any more points per game than he scored this year. We're returning very little scoring potential aside from him and very little in terms of playmaking skills. They probably can put a decent defensive nucleus out there, but that nucleus will run out of gas pretty quickly w/o some reinforcements.
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Post by Tom on Mar 28, 2022 13:26:45 GMT -5
When are we going to get an announcement? My personal speculation with no inside information: If it were going to happen this off season, it would have happened by now
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2022 13:27:19 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson.
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Post by trimster on Mar 28, 2022 13:49:49 GMT -5
When are we going to get an announcement? My personal speculation with no inside information: If it were going to happen this off season, it would have happened by now I am leaning that way as well. I am beginning to feel like being an avid HC hoop fan is the bane of my existence.
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Post by football44 on Mar 28, 2022 13:50:25 GMT -5
When are we going to get an announcement? Unfortunately no time soon!!! BN will not pull the trigger. Just my gut feeling.
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Post by trimster on Mar 28, 2022 13:54:11 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson. How can you ignore it? It is like the elephant in the room. It also certainly plays a major role in the record. When you put the two together, I can't imagine too many programs have endured a worse 3 year stretch than HC. I know that sounds hyperbolic but this era has been historically bad and recent events don't give me any optimism going forward.
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Post by football44 on Mar 28, 2022 13:55:48 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson. These players are in the portal because they do not want to play for BN. It has nothing to do with "portal mania". Do you think Shaheen Holloway's kids are jumping into the portal? Like Coach Chesney it's about leadership!
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Post by timholycross on Mar 28, 2022 13:56:37 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson. I'd love to know what the defectors are all about in terms of academics and what priority schoolwork had in their respective decisions. Clearly there are individuals (and there are at least two of those based on their subsequent movements and statements) who could have cared less about being a student; and at least those individuals fit your narrative.
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Post by football44 on Mar 28, 2022 14:18:32 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson. I'd love to know what the defectors are all about in terms of academics and what priority schoolwork had in their respective decisions. Clearly there are individuals (and there are at least two of those based on their subsequent movements and statements) who could have cared less about being a student; and at least those individuals fit your narrative. Don't blame this on students lack of interest in academics. PLEASE! Theses kids were recruited by BN and accepted at Holy Cross. This coach S_____! Stop with the excuse making.
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Post by hcpride on Mar 28, 2022 14:18:43 GMT -5
Crazy as it sounds I don’t think five or six more wins this year would have retained any of our portal guys. Given the current portal mania sweeping across the country I ignore that aspect (departures) in evaluating Nelson. How can you ignore it? It is like the elephant in the room. It also certainly plays a major role in the record. When you put the two together, I can't imagine too many programs have endured a worse 3 year stretch than HC. I know that sounds hyperbolic but this era has been historically bad and recent events don't give me any optimism going forward. IDK but it seems many mid-majors are losing three or four kids a year the past few years. 1700+ D-1 kids entered the portal following the 2021 hoops season. It is also true we have been awful on the court. (I follow Stony Brook hoops and they have lost kids at the same rate as HC but they also have brought in several pretty good ones via the portal).
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 28, 2022 14:50:29 GMT -5
How can you ignore it? It is like the elephant in the room. It also certainly plays a major role in the record. When you put the two together, I can't imagine too many programs have endured a worse 3 year stretch than HC. I know that sounds hyperbolic but this era has been historically bad and recent events don't give me any optimism going forward. IDK but it seems many mid-majors are losing three or four kids a year the past few years. 1700+ D-1 kids entered the portal following the 2021 hoops season. It is also true we have been awful on the court. (I follow Stony Brook hoops and they have lost kids at the same rate as HC but they also have brought in several pretty good ones via the portal). If kids are entering the portal at a much higher rate at HC compared to other PL schools, then it's clearly a problem and an indictment on Nelson.
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Mar 28, 2022 15:05:28 GMT -5
How can you ignore it? It is like the elephant in the room. It also certainly plays a major role in the record. When you put the two together, I can't imagine too many programs have endured a worse 3 year stretch than HC. I know that sounds hyperbolic but this era has been historically bad and recent events don't give me any optimism going forward. (I follow Stony Brook hoops and they have lost kids at the same rate as HC but they also have brought in several pretty good ones via the portal). This is exactly what I am most worried about. I envision a roster next year (talking new players) of 3-4 walk-ons and a few D-2 level scholarship players. What is the selling point, if the education is treated as an afterthought? Certainly not the winning vibes. I can accept Luc, Lowder and Pridgen as a sign of the times (kids wanting to move up, or at least thinking they belong at a higher level). But the rest seem to point to some dissatisfaction, whether it's from the player's perspective, or from the coach's. Neither is a feather in CBN's cap.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 28, 2022 15:47:24 GMT -5
IDK but it seems many mid-majors are losing three or four kids a year the past few years. 1700+ D-1 kids entered the portal following the 2021 hoops season. It is also true we have been awful on the court. (I follow Stony Brook hoops and they have lost kids at the same rate as HC but they also have brought in several pretty good ones via the portal). If kids are entering the portal at a much higher rate at HC compared to other PL schools, then it's clearly a problem and an indictment on Nelson. Exactly. Football44 thinks I'm sticking up for the guy. Far from it. Best I can say is a lot of the defectors were Carmody recruits, but BN recruit departures are adding up and will soon surpass FCBC.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 28, 2022 16:01:39 GMT -5
If there ends up being no announcement, that could be a clue BN has a five year contract.
Regarding the portal, even if a player breaks even or does a little better post transfer, he loses not having the full four year experience at either college he attended.
And there's no guarantee a player will break even after he files.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 28, 2022 16:21:16 GMT -5
If kids are entering the portal at a much higher rate at HC compared to other PL schools, then it's clearly a problem and an indictment on Nelson. Exactly. Football44 thinks I'm sticking up for the guy. Far from it. Best I can say is a lot of the defectors were Carmody recruits, but BN recruit departures are adding up and will soon surpass FCBC. None of the staff is leaving but they are all well educated and there is a roaring job market so they should all be ok one way or another in or out of basketball. It would be quite a story if they stuck together, patched together a team and made a run in the PL next year. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened.
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Post by timholycross on Mar 28, 2022 16:35:24 GMT -5
(I follow Stony Brook hoops and they have lost kids at the same rate as HC but they also have brought in several pretty good ones via the portal). This is exactly what I am most worried about. I envision a roster next year (talking new players) of 3-4 walk-ons and a few D-2 level scholarship players. What is the selling point, if the education is treated as an afterthought? Certainly not the winning vibes. I can accept Luc, Lowder and Pridgen as a sign of the times (kids wanting to move up, or at least thinking they belong at a higher level). But the rest seem to point to some dissatisfaction, whether it's from the player's perspective, or from the coach's. Neither is a feather in CBN's cap. It's become a food chain. The bigs poach the mid majors; the mid majors poach the low majors: the low majors have to look to D2 and D3 (hey, there's got to be a Duncan Robinson out there somewhere!).
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 28, 2022 16:46:56 GMT -5
This is exactly what I am most worried about. I envision a roster next year (talking new players) of 3-4 walk-ons and a few D-2 level scholarship players. What is the selling point, if the education is treated as an afterthought? Certainly not the winning vibes. I can accept Luc, Lowder and Pridgen as a sign of the times (kids wanting to move up, or at least thinking they belong at a higher level). But the rest seem to point to some dissatisfaction, whether it's from the player's perspective, or from the coach's. Neither is a feather in CBN's cap. It's become a food chain. The bigs poach the mid majors; the mid majors poach the low majors: the low majors have to look to D2 and D3 (hey, there's got to be a Duncan Robinson out there somewhere!). I must be using the old math. I figure there are five years worth of D-1 scholarship level players chasing four years worth of D-1 scholarships. It should be like shooting fish in a barrel to fill your roster with players talented enough to be offered a D-1 scholarship. In other words there will be D-1 talent on the outside looking in, not D-1 teams. Unless we have the worst talent evaluators in the country.
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