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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2022 2:01:37 GMT -5
With all the attention that pundits and analysts pay to basketball, you'd think that someone could do a really comprehensive study of this issue: (1) getting your head coach from the ranks of D-1 assistants (several extremely successful examples of this cited above) or (2) getting your head coach from the ranks of very successful D-2 or D-3 head coaches. Of course, there is another option-getting your new coach from the ranks of successful D-1 coaches but that may not be as available to HC as to a higher profile program due to $$ constraints A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!!
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Post by ndgradbuthcfan on Mar 4, 2022 5:40:18 GMT -5
Have these three coaches contacted you for PR suggestions?
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Post by mm67 on Mar 4, 2022 6:13:07 GMT -5
There is no hard & fast rule about hiring a coach from a lower division, an assistant at a DivI school or another head coach from another DivI program with the following exception: Obviously, hiring an extremely successful coach from another high level DivI program almost guarantees success, a slam dunk. It all depends on the individual AND the circumstances surrounding him/her. It might be interesting to set forth the specific criteria for that individual head coach rather than a generalized approach. At this time of the morning I have no idea. I'm still sipping a cup of Jo and grieving the murder of Ukrainians. Peace.
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Post by trimster on Mar 4, 2022 7:51:45 GMT -5
There is no hard & fast rule about hiring a coach from a lower division, an assistant at a DivI school or another head coach from another DivI program with the following exception: Obviously, hiring an extremely successful coach from another high level DivI program almost guarantees success, a slam dunk. It all depends on the individual AND the circumstances surrounding him/her. It might be interesting to set forth the specific criteria for that individual head coach rather than a generalized approach. At this time of the morning I have no idea. I'm still sipping a cup of Jo and grieving the murder of Ukrainians. Peace. Couldn’t agree more. Georgetown hired JT from a DC high school.
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Post by gerry on Mar 4, 2022 8:11:18 GMT -5
Sounds like Georgetown is bringing back Ewing for a 6th season which seems pretty inexplicable to me. He has had one winning season, has never had a winning conference record, and has had a staggering amount of players leave the program under his watch. Is Georgetown afraid of firing a legend? Is that miracle run in last year's Big East Tournament that was bookended by blowout losses, saving him? They fired the relatively successful John Thompson III while his father was still alive. I know Jim Christian and Leonard Hamilton survived winless major conference seasons, but Christian was only in Year 2, and Hamilton in Year 3 of a massive rebuild, but pretty tough to rationalize a donut in Year 5. Ewing, Mullin, Drexler, Hardaway....so many schools think they can recapture the magic by hiring a legendary alum, and time and time again it fails.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2022 8:16:46 GMT -5
Note to file - there's no correlation between being a good player and being a good coach.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2022 8:53:39 GMT -5
With all the attention that pundits and analysts pay to basketball, you'd think that someone could do a really comprehensive study of this issue: (1) getting your head coach from the ranks of D-1 assistants (several extremely successful examples of this cited above) or (2) getting your head coach from the ranks of very successful D-2 or D-3 head coaches. Of course, there is another option-getting your new coach from the ranks of successful D-1 coaches but that may not be as available to HC as to a higher profile program due to $$ constraints A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!! There have also been some who have done ok - just to jump-start a more comprehensive review, here's a few, in no particular order . . .
Bo Ryan Dick Bennett Dave Paulsen Pat Flannery Bob McKillop Norm Stewart John Beilein Pete Carril John Chaney Gene Bartow Rollie Massimino Bill Foster Greg McDermott Rick Byrd
You're welcome.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Mar 4, 2022 9:27:35 GMT -5
A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!! There have also been some who have done ok - just to jump-start a more comprehensive review, here's a few, in no particular order . . .
Bo Ryan Dick Bennett Dave Paulsen Pat Flannery Bob McKillop Norm Stewart John Beilein Pete Carril John Chaney Gene Bartow Rollie Massimino Bill Foster Greg McDermott Rick Byrd
You're welcome.
Thanks, WG. My comprehensive study was focused on guys younger than 80
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2022 9:41:44 GMT -5
With all the attention that pundits and analysts pay to basketball, you'd think that someone could do a really comprehensive study of this issue: (1) getting your head coach from the ranks of D-1 assistants (several extremely successful examples of this cited above) or (2) getting your head coach from the ranks of very successful D-2 or D-3 head coaches. Of course, there is another option-getting your new coach from the ranks of successful D-1 coaches but that may not be as available to HC as to a higher profile program due to $$ constraints A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!! You could just as easily play the other side of the coin. One of the most sought after coaches in CBB last year... Chis Beard
47-15 @ Angelo State 30-5 @ Little Rock 112-55 @ Texas Tech
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Mar 4, 2022 9:56:00 GMT -5
With all the attention that pundits and analysts pay to basketball, you'd think that someone could do a really comprehensive study of this issue: (1) getting your head coach from the ranks of D-1 assistants (several extremely successful examples of this cited above) or (2) getting your head coach from the ranks of very successful D-2 or D-3 head coaches. Of course, there is another option-getting your new coach from the ranks of successful D-1 coaches but that may not be as available to HC as to a higher profile program due to $$ constraints A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!! Too funny! I guess this subject is settled. You've outdone yourself with this one
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2022 11:36:05 GMT -5
There might not be a magic answer. As much as I'm a little bity sour right now on the career assistant getting his first head job in D-I and liking the successful head guy at a lower level, . . I think back about 30 years when Western Kentucky hired a career assistant and that worked out pretty well.
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Post by hchoops on Mar 4, 2022 11:52:30 GMT -5
There might not be a magic answer. As much as I'm a little bity sour right now on the career assistant getting his first head job in D-I and liking the successful head guy at a lower level, . . I think back about 30 years when Western Kentucky hired a career assistant and that worked out pretty well. Not exactly a career assistant He was a very successful coach at St.Dominic’s HS in a.strong Long Island Catholic league
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2022 12:09:15 GMT -5
There might not be a magic answer. As much as I'm a little bity sour right now on the career assistant getting his first head job in D-I and liking the successful head guy at a lower level, . . I think back about 30 years when Western Kentucky hired a career assistant and that worked out pretty well. "Career assistant" might be a little harsh. RW was an assistant coach for six years and then the associated head for Pitino for a year before heading to WKU. EDIT: I see hoops beat me to it.
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2022 12:25:03 GMT -5
Sean Kearney was the patron saint of career assistants, 1981-2009
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2022 12:34:44 GMT -5
OK - but I think my basic point is still valid. This is not an absolute science. There are no guarantees. I'm with the majority on this board. I like the idea of someone who has been successful in a lower division over giving someone their first collegiate head coaching gig at the D-I level. But I still have to allow that someone might succeed in their first collegiate head job at the D-I level or that a D-III rising star might not flourish in D-I
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Post by Sons of Vaval on Mar 4, 2022 12:40:41 GMT -5
A good coach is a good coach regardless of what level they have coached at or whether or not he is sitting in the first seat on the bench or the second seat. There's no science to this. A candidate shouldn't be discounted because he has never been a head coach, hasn't coached at the D1 level, etc.
There are so many examples here, but look at Nate Oates. Longtime high school coach in Michigan who, six years later, is making millions coaching at Alabama.
We haven't hired a good coach since RW, who fortuitously fell into FADDR's lap.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 4, 2022 12:45:01 GMT -5
OK - but I think my basic point is still valid. This is not an absolute science. There are no guarantees. I'm with the majority on this board. I like the idea of someone who has been successful in a lower division over giving someone their first collegiate head coaching gig at the D-I level. But I still have to allow that someone might succeed in their first collegiate head job at the D-I level or that a D-III rising star might not flourish in D-I Good point. Chesney was an assistant before being the head coach at Salve Regina.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 4, 2022 12:47:43 GMT -5
A good coach is a good coach regardless of what level they have coached at or whether or not he is sitting in the first seat on the bench or the second seat. There's no science to this. A candidate shouldn't be discounted because he has never been a head coach, hasn't coached at the D1 level, etc. There are so many examples here, but look at Nate Oates. Longtime high school coach in Michigan who, six years later, is making millions coaching at Alabama. We haven't hired a good coach since RW, who fortuitously fell into FADDR's lap. Andy Sachs fell into the same lap and was tossed out of it.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 4, 2022 13:13:05 GMT -5
How do you judge which assistant will have a deer in the headlights look upon taking over and which won't? Not an exact science indeed.
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Post by Tom on Mar 4, 2022 13:24:21 GMT -5
A good coach is a good coach regardless of what level they have coached at or whether or not he is sitting in the first seat on the bench or the second seat. There's no science to this. A candidate shouldn't be discounted because he has never been a head coach, hasn't coached at the D1 level, etc. There are so many examples here, but look at Nate Oates. Longtime high school coach in Michigan who, six years later, is making millions coaching at Alabama. We haven't hired a good coach since RW, who fortuitously fell into FADDR's lap. Andy Sachs fell into the same lap and was tossed out of it. refresh my memory . . . . I know the timing of Sachs moving to Bethany and Willard moving to Louisville were close. I don't remember if they were so close that Sachs was into the interview process when Willard left or not. FWIW, when we were discussing HC coaching vacancies here, I threw Sachs name out during the hiring process of Coach Brown, Coach Carmody, and Coach Nelson. Unless something strange happens, I'll probably post it again when HC looks to replace Coach Nelson, be that in 2022 or 2042
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Post by WorcesterGray on Mar 4, 2022 13:35:13 GMT -5
Sachs was named to the Bethany job on June 29, 2009. Kearney was announced here three days later.
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Post by longsuffering on Mar 4, 2022 16:08:51 GMT -5
With all the attention that pundits and analysts pay to basketball, you'd think that someone could do a really comprehensive study of this issue: (1) getting your head coach from the ranks of D-1 assistants (several extremely successful examples of this cited above) or (2) getting your head coach from the ranks of very successful D-2 or D-3 head coaches. Of course, there is another option-getting your new coach from the ranks of successful D-1 coaches but that may not be as available to HC as to a higher profile program due to $$ constraints A Comprehensive Study on the Chesney Model in Basketball By: bringbackcaro Kim Anderson274-94 (.745) @ Central Missouri 27-68 (.284) @ Missouri Mike Maker147-32 (.821) @ Williams 28-97 (.234) @ Marist Bob Walsh204-63 (.764) @ Rhode Island College 24-100 (.194) @ Maine This study is dedicated to all my supporters in Crossports Nation. Go Cross Go!! To add insult to injury, Coach Maker discovered they don't serve the ham sandwiches with grey poupon mustard at Marist.😊
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Post by res on Mar 4, 2022 17:46:35 GMT -5
Note to file - there's no correlation between being a good player and being a good coach. Not sure about "good", but I bet there's a negative correlation between "great" player and good coach.
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Post by rgs318 on Mar 4, 2022 17:49:41 GMT -5
How is that?
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Post by res on Mar 4, 2022 18:00:30 GMT -5
If that's directed at me, Rob, it's because people who are great at something don't always understand why others aren't. Think of Ted Williams as a batting coach. He was such a natural, beautiful hitter. He wasn't the guy to break down the mechanics that would get a .235 hitter into a .250 hitter. There are always exceptions, of course.
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