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Post by efg72 on Feb 10, 2022 19:32:47 GMT -5
I must be missing something here.
Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat.
While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 19:43:22 GMT -5
I must be missing something here. Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat. While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success. Did you know: HCBN has beaten as many pL teams with a winning record in the last 10 days as HCBC has beaten in the last 4 years
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Post by efg72 on Feb 10, 2022 19:52:20 GMT -5
I guess when one opts not to respond to the statement it is better to deflect and attempt to change focus. The remark was not about wins or improvements, that is established by the recent wins. Instead it is about the ability of Nelson and all other coaches to be the face of a specific Holy Cross team. But I think you know that.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2022 20:09:02 GMT -5
I must be missing something here. Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat. While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success. Nelson, a rookie pick by a rookie AD arrived without portfolio from outside of New England and was greeted with a 3-29 first season and the biggest mass player exodus HC BB has likely ever seen. The AD who was his partner in all of this left him in the midst of Covid. Coach Nelson probably has a more introverted personality than Coach Chesney anyway, but Chesney arrived thoroughly familiar with Worcester and with one of the best portfolios of prior success of any new HC coach evah. He is the prototype for future HC coaching hires, imo. So while acknowledging Chesney was a better hire for Holy Cross than Nelson you can't blame Nelson for that. He didn't hire himself. Then you go to the areas that Coach Nelson is responsible for and can control. He has established stability on the roster and the staff he has recruited and hired and they all appear to be rowing in the same direction. Nobody complained or tried to deflect blame for the horrendous w/l results, they just kept working together and now that work is beginning to pay off. Coach Nelson has had anemic communication with the fans of the program. Winning should make that easier and Kit should establish guidelines and infrastructure for all HC sports to communicate regularly and effortlessly. The staff directory indicates resources are available for that. I'm with the poster who said no extension, no buyout. Keep working hard through the end of the contract and let Kit continue evaluating. A benefit of that approach is to give Kit a year or more under his belt before he has to make his first major coaching decision. His understanding of HC and the PL will be greatly expanded a year from now.
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Post by timholycross on Feb 10, 2022 20:12:26 GMT -5
I had 8-10 league wins I believe. Looking good. I had five. Don't think there was really a button for that. I didn't want to choose 0-4 because it made me look like they'd only win two or less. Happy to undershoot by a little. On the other hand, I'd have predicted a few more non league wins than the two default victories.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 10, 2022 20:20:37 GMT -5
I must be missing something here. Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat. While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success. Did you know: HCBN has beaten as many pL teams with a winning record in the last 10 days as HCBC has beaten in the last 4 years Don’t beat around the bush: do you think Brett Nelson is a better coach than Bob Chesney?
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2022 20:28:39 GMT -5
I had 8-10 league wins I believe. Looking good. I had five. Don't think there was really a button for that. I didn't want to choose 0-4 because it made me look like they'd only win two or less. Happy to undershoot by a little. On the other hand, I'd have predicted a few more non league wins than the two default victories. 5-5 and a team that's chomping at the bit. Kit is like the relief pitcher who comes in with two outs and the bases loaded. The first pitch is a screaming line drive back to the mound. The pitcher throws his glove up and says "Look what I found." WBB is 10-2 in first place, MBB has won four of five and Kit was given the resources to extend the championship football coach and be the face of that decision. Keep it going Kit and welcome aboard.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 10, 2022 20:31:36 GMT -5
Did you know: HCBN has beaten as many pL teams with a winning record in the last 10 days as HCBC has beaten in the last 4 years Don’t beat around the bush: do you think Brett Nelson is a better coach than Bob Chesney? This should be good.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 20:51:01 GMT -5
I guess when one opts not to respond to the statement it is better to deflect and attempt to change focus. The remark was not about wins or improvements, that is established by the recent wins. Instead it is about the ability of Nelson and all other coaches to be the face of a specific Holy Cross team. But I think you know that. Ah yes, just like HOF RW, who was the epitome of charisma! c.tenor.com/LJjt6tv0wokAAAAC/just-win-baby-al-davis.gifBrett Nelson was a McDonald’s All-American, 3-year starter under Billy Donovan, and played in the National Championship. I find it absolutely ridiculous that some seem to think he’s a buffoon who doesn’t belong in D1 basketball because he has a southern accent and doesn’t style his hair + wear sunglasses on the sidelines. Very disappointing from Holy Cross people. Brett Nelson is our best chance for having a successful basketball program in the next 3-5 years. He has been successful at the highest levels of D1 basketball. He inherited a total cluster$@&? of a program, and he has handled himself with nothing but class as he has worked to turn the ship around. Holy Cross fans should be supporting him and the team to continue turning this corner. We are a much better team now than we were last year. If we continue on this trajectory, that puts us challenging for the PLC next year. Anyone not on board with that needs to have their head examined.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 10, 2022 20:58:48 GMT -5
Not sure how you judge and make these allegations about what people think when nobody, and i mean nobody, said anything like the rubbish in the post.
You are allowed your opinion but please be mindful that your comments do little to support your case or point of view.
Peace
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 10, 2022 21:03:40 GMT -5
Please cite the posts where anyone mentioned Brett Nelson's accent, hairstyle or eyewear. I've never heard him speak and have no idea if he has anaccent. Please stop with your repeated "straw man" arguments. They are so silly.
To say that he has been "successful at the highest levels ofD1 basketball" again shows that you cannot distinguish between being a successful player and an assistant coach versus being a successful head coach. Really there is a difference.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 21:09:12 GMT -5
Not sure how you judge and make these allegations about what people think when nobody, and i mean nobody, said anything like the rubbish in the post. Your allowed your opinion but please be mindful that your comments do little to support your case or point of view. Peace You insinuated (or just plain stated) that Nelson doesn’t have what it takes to be “the face” of Holy Cross basketball. What on earth could that be referring to? Does Bill Belichick have what it takes to be “the face” of the New England Patriots?
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 21:18:44 GMT -5
Please cite the posts where anyone mentioned Brett Nelson's accent, hairstyle or eyewear. I've never heard him speak and have no idea if he has anaccent. Please stop with your repeated "straw man" arguments. They are so silly. To say that he has been "successful at the highest levels ofD1 basketball" again shows that you cannot distinguish between being a successful player and an assistant coach versus being a successful head coach. Really there is a difference. Straight from talking about straw men to putting words in my mouth. Nice transition! Of course there is a difference between playing and coaching, I never said there wasn’t. The point was that Nelson has been involved with extremely successful programs and has seen (/participated in) what it takes to be successful at the highest level in the sport. He has also worked his way up in the coaching ranks and learned how to translate his playing experiences into teaching. Don’t want to believe me? Fine, but I’ll take Billy Donovan’s word for it over yours: “I had the privilege to recruit, coach and develop a close relationship with Brett Nelson. I have never seen a harder worker and a more committed player and coach to the game of basketball. Brett has taken that same passion for the game and has developed into an outstanding basketball coach.” End.
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Post by efg72 on Feb 10, 2022 21:20:47 GMT -5
Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat.
While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success.
I said Chesney understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat
I have no sense the later(the above) is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead.
Now explain in what version of the English language that means or can be interpreted they way you described
It seems like you might have more of an issue with Chesney being successful
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 21:26:37 GMT -5
Chesney went 5-6 his first season but there was no doubt he would build depth and win games. More importantly we recognized immediately he understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat. While there is growing evidence the basketball team is improving, I have no sense the later is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. I think it is fair to expect both from a Holy Cross Head Coach. Wishing both the team and Nelson great success. I said Chesney understood Holy Cross and would represent us well in victory and defeat I have no sense the later(the above) is true for Nelson. Perhaps that is maturity or experience as a leader, or just a single opinion, and it will appear in the months ahead. Now explain in what version of the English language that means or can be interpreted they way you described It seems like you might have more of an issue with Chesney being successful Your words: “Instead it is about the ability of Nelson and all other coaches to be the face of a specific Holy Cross team.” The situation that Chesney inherited at HC was exponentially better than what Nelson inherited. There is also significantly less competition in pL football right now than there is in pL basketball. To ignore those facts is just being willfully ignorant. (Just to get ahead of the responses, there is no anti-Chesney sentiment in the above statements, just stating the cold, hard facts. Go Cross Go (all teams)!!)
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Post by purple1 on Feb 10, 2022 21:52:39 GMT -5
Chesney did not receive a program that could win the close games and the overall speed of the team was woefully below par. The players gave up on Gilmore and he was terminated mid season. Chesney made notes of what was needed to be improved and went out with a plan. He also was compensated at 50% what Nelson was being paid to coach 15 basketball players. Chesney had 95+ players with 22 positions to improve on. Assistant coaches in basketball were compensated fairly vs. their peers. Football assistants were lowest paid in the PL, not even close to IL coaches. Chesney had his work cut out for him. THREE PL crowns in four years.....
I have watched both coaches in action - there is a confidence on Chesney's sideline; Nelson is too animated and vocal, which really tightens up his players. He is worse than Bill Gibbons became on the sidelines.
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Post by HC92 on Feb 10, 2022 21:57:33 GMT -5
Here are the facts. Bob Chesney is a dramatically better head coach in his sport than Brett Nelson is in his. They both inherited dumpster fires. One put out the fire immediately and became the class of our conference almost immediately, winning 18 of 19 PL contests since losing his first two. Nelson has won 12 PL games in 45 tries. We’re getting better in basketball and have won 4 of 5. I very much want Nelson to get to the point where we expect to win the league every year. Long way to go. Any comparisons of the two coaches will not favor Nelson anytime soon.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 22:02:14 GMT -5
Chesney did not receive a program that could win the close games and the overall speed of the team was woefully below par. The players gave up on Gilmore and he was terminated mid season. Chesney made notes of what was needed to be improved and went out with a plan. He also was compensated at 50% what Nelson was being paid to coach 15 basketball players. Chesney had 95+ players with 22 positions to improve on. Assistant coaches in basketball were compensated fairly vs. their peers. Football assistants were lowest paid in the PL, not even close to IL coaches. Chesney had his work cut out for him. THREE PL crowns in four years..... I have watched both coaches in action - there is a confidence on Chesney's sideline; Nelson is too animated and vocal, which really tightens up his players. He is worse than Bill Gibbons became on the sidelines. 1) Pay is totally irrelevant. 2) You left out a talent comparison of what was left behind — who is the equivalent of Dom Cozier for Nelson? How about Benton Whitley? Brian Foley? Tenio Ayeni? Brett Boddy? Chris Riley? Mark Ebo? Corey Stefanik? Teddy Capsis? Martin Dorsey? (All all-pL players that Chesney inherited from Gilmore). Go Cross Go (all sports)!!
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 10, 2022 22:05:16 GMT -5
Here are the facts. …They both inherited dumpster fires. Simply ridiculous and making up history to classify the program that Chesney inherited in the same zip code as what Nelson inherited. Pure nonsense. In addition to the players cited in my previous post, Chesney also inherited his recruiting coordinator (Chris Smith) and New Jersey recruiter (Vaganek) who are excelling in their roles (with Chesney’s help/support, of course).
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Post by HC92 on Feb 10, 2022 22:20:01 GMT -5
I like the strategy of arguing about which of the two dumpster fires was worse and ignoring the results the two have produced since. Chesney is a great head coach right now and has been since Salve Regina. Nelson is not. I hope he gets there. I think we all do.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Feb 11, 2022 0:43:06 GMT -5
BBC-- you really should stop with the player evaluations--"who is the equivalent of Dom Cozier for Nelson? How about Benton Whitley? Brian Foley? Tenio Ayeni? Brett Boddy? Chris Riley? Mark Ebo? Corey Stefanik? Teddy Capsis? Martin Dorsey?" Aren't you the guy who stated repeatedly that Austin Butler was a Division-3 level player and didn't you double down on that in saying he would not be a good rebounder when I and others suggested he would after the rebounding handcuffs were removed post-Carmody? I forget--didn't you weigh in with your expert opinion on Peter Oliver as well? I don't think player evaluations are your strong suit.
Also-again stressing your war against logic---isn't it silly to compare the number of fine players the football coach inherited with the number left for the basketball coach, considering that there are 90 football players on the team versus maybe 13 on the basketball team? Wouldn't logic dictate that the football coach could inherit 7 top players for every one the basketball coach did?
I hope. sincerely, that HC never loses another basketball game and that Brett Nelson therefore comes to be seen as our best ever coach.
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Post by longsuffering on Feb 11, 2022 1:24:17 GMT -5
Joe P. would be an inherited player that compares favorably with Dom Cozier as far as talent and impact. Coach Nelson gets full credit for coaching Joe while he was here.
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Post by sader1970 on Feb 11, 2022 7:29:42 GMT -5
Looking at these posts and the reactions to bbc, it reinforces that it was a good decision to put him on my ignore list.
I can pretty much figure out the gist of bbc’s posts from the responses to them.
Please, guys, continue NOT to quote him. I don’t need that.
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Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 11, 2022 7:41:54 GMT -5
BBC-- you really should stop with the player evaluations--"who is the equivalent of Dom Cozier for Nelson? How about Benton Whitley? Brian Foley? Tenio Ayeni? Brett Boddy? Chris Riley? Mark Ebo? Corey Stefanik? Teddy Capsis? Martin Dorsey?" Aren't you the guy who stated repeatedly that Austin Butler was a Division-3 level player and didn't you double down on that in saying he would not be a good rebounder when I and others suggested he would after the rebounding handcuffs were removed post-Carmody? I forget--didn't you weigh in with your expert opinion on Peter Oliver as well? I don't think player evaluations are your strong suit. Also-again stressing your war against logic---isn't it silly to compare the number of fine players the football coach inherited with the number left for the basketball coach, considering that there are 90 football players on the team versus maybe 13 on the basketball team? Wouldn't logic dictate that the football coach could inherit 7 top players for every one the basketball coach did? I hope. sincerely, that HC never loses another basketball game and that Brett Nelson therefore comes to be seen as our best ever coach. While there are 90 players on a football team, only 22 players start on offense and defense, a fraction of the total 90 players are on full scholarship, etc. etc. For someone who stresses logic so much, just taking a raw percentage of the total roster size is not really flexing your own logic muscles. Compare the all-league players left behind by Gilmore with those left behind by Carmody. It is drastically different. Again, anyone who puts the football program that Chesney inherited in the same zip code as the dumpster fire Nelson inherited is just making up their own history to meet their agenda and/or just a Chesney pom-pom waver. End?
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Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 11, 2022 8:26:23 GMT -5
I am a devout Chesney pom pom waver, and proud of it! Hoping I have many more years to wave them on his behalf for HC!
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