|
Post by classof83 on Feb 17, 2022 7:08:09 GMT -5
Free jersey give away to the students
|
|
|
Post by Non Alum Dave on Feb 17, 2022 8:24:50 GMT -5
Another way to look at it - it sure would have been nice to have faced Mathon the freshman rather than Mathon the 5th year guy. He was as raw as they come; as much as Kenney is raw in spots, he's much further along than Mathon was.
I think experience (with players AND coaches) is what separates BU, Colgate and Navy from the rest of the field, imho.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Feb 17, 2022 8:41:14 GMT -5
It sure would be nice to get Martindale's 10 plus points a game back, not to imply that I have any complaints about how he's been utilized lately.
Really disappointing year for the young man.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Feb 17, 2022 8:45:29 GMT -5
Luc had far more contested shots tonight than he had at BU. He did not need to take 23 shots at BU for his points. I think any game where one of our players takes 23 shots isn’t a good sign and it has happened twice within the last 3 games.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Feb 17, 2022 8:48:38 GMT -5
Gates and Luc take the majority of HC’s shots and their numbers combined over the last 3 games for the former and 4 for the latter are 39-117 or 33%.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Feb 17, 2022 9:01:08 GMT -5
On the other hand, Caleb Kennedy has really picked his offensive game in the last week. He is looking to shoot more and has made 14-22 shots and perhaps more impressively, 9-11 from the charity stripe after going 15-32 from the line until then. He has averaged 9 ppg in the last 4 games vs. 3 ppg until then. Kudos to CK.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 9:36:18 GMT -5
Lots of offensive masterminds in Crossports Land - perhaps Coach Nelson can schedule some Crossports Chalk Talk sessions this summer to pick up some tips! I have a suggestion. How about fewer arrogant and cynical comments and explain to us why our perception of an offense based on one on one moves to the hoop is not accurate. Can’t wait to hear. Well, I completely disagree with your premise that the offense is solely based on one-on-one moves to the hoop. IMO, that is people judging the offense by the scoreboard rather than the play. I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. No coach is going to be able to install some type of slick offensive system that is highly efficient with the pieces and level of D1 experience that we currently have available. This is not high school basketball where Nelson.& Co. could put in some elaborate offensive sets where guys set screens all over the place, the ball gets reversed 3 times, and we get someone a wide open shot. What some seem to ignore is that the opposing team that's playing defense also has Division 1 players who are not just going to sit back and let the offense run through a full high school set without pressuring the ball, getting in passing lanes, etc. Would you prefer that HC go back to RW's bruising, grind-you-down offense (which was really meant to be a complement to the defense more than a great offense)? Because people didn't like that either, and we also don't have the personnel for that. Are there any college teams who you think HC should emulate? Do you think Matt Langel at Colgate is running a great offense that we can emulate? Or has he just collected a roster of great shooters and wants to out-shoot teams from the perimeter (#5 in KenPom 3efg%)? What was BU doing on offense last night that was superior to HC? I'm assuming you would say they were running great offense because they scored 78 points? Or was it just that they have a 6'10 5th year senior who they could just dump the ball to on the block? As a former HC coach would say, we just don't shoot it well right now. Of course that needs to improve going forward, but it's naive to think Nelson would have a roster full of sharp shooters right now given the number of holes on the roster than he needed to fill. Batchelder ("Elite Shooter" per NERR) coming in next year will be the first step in adding some much needed perimeter shooting to complement the nice pieces that Nelson has assembled across the rest of the roster. Go Cross Go!!
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 9:43:17 GMT -5
On the other hand, Caleb Kennedy has really picked his offensive game in the last week. He is looking to shoot more and has made 14-22 shots and perhaps more impressively, 9-11 from the charity stripe after going 15-32 from the line until then. He has averaged 9 ppg in the last 4 games vs. 3 ppg until then. Kudos to CK. Great point! And while I'm certainly not looking forward to not having Gates on the roster by any means (hopefully not until 23-24), Kenny has shown that he has the potential to fill that void of being an offensive weapon at the PF position. Individual metrics certainly don't always tell the full story, but just as a point of comparison, Gate's KenPom Offensive Rating during conference play in his Freshman year at New Orleans was 104.4. Kenny's ORtg in pL games this year is currently 106.8. Future is bright!
|
|
|
Post by crusader1970 on Feb 17, 2022 10:28:41 GMT -5
I have a suggestion. How about fewer arrogant and cynical comments and explain to us why our perception of an offense based on one on one moves to the hoop is not accurate. Can’t wait to hear. Well, I completely disagree with your premise that the offense is solely based on one-on-one moves to the hoop. IMO, that is people judging the offense by the scoreboard rather than the play. I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. No coach is going to be able to install some type of slick offensive system that is highly efficient with the pieces and level of D1 experience that we currently have available. This is not high school basketball where Nelson.& Co. could put in some elaborate offensive sets where guys set screens all over the place, the ball gets reversed 3 times, and we get someone a wide open shot. What some seem to ignore is that the opposing team that's playing defense also has Division 1 players who are not just going to sit back and let the offense run through a full high school set without pressuring the ball, getting in passing lanes, etc. Would you prefer that HC go back to RW's bruising, grind-you-down offense (which was really meant to be a complement to the defense more than a great offense)? Because people didn't like that either, and we also don't have the personnel for that. Are there any college teams who you think HC should emulate? Do you think Matt Langel at Colgate is running a great offense that we can emulate? Or has he just collected a roster of great shooters and wants to out-shoot teams from the perimeter (#5 in KenPom 3efg%)? What was BU doing on offense last night that was superior to HC? I'm assuming you would say they were running great offense because they scored 78 points? Or was it just that they have a 6'10 5th year senior who they could just dump the ball to on the block? As a former HC coach would say, we just don't shoot it well right now. Of course that needs to improve going forward, but it's naive to think Nelson would have a roster full of sharp shooters right now given the number of holes on the roster than he needed to fill. Batchelder ("Elite Shooter" per NERR) coming in next year will be the first step in adding some much needed perimeter shooting to complement the nice pieces that Nelson has assembled across the rest of the roster. Go Cross Go!! Lots of words but you didn't answer my question.
Please explain to me why we are wrong when we say that the HC offense is totally based on beating the defender with on one-on-one moves.
That perception is not based on the scoreboard, as you suggest. It's based upon watching us play every game. That's what we do.
My concern (and the concern of may other posters) is that Nelson is a "one trick pony" in terms of offensive philosophy. One of the reasons that we can get shut down for over 8 minutes in the American game is that the other teams know what is coming every possession and are well prepared to defend it.
|
|
|
Post by Sons of Vaval on Feb 17, 2022 10:30:49 GMT -5
I have a suggestion. How about fewer arrogant and cynical comments and explain to us why our perception of an offense based on one on one moves to the hoop is not accurate. Can’t wait to hear. I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. Nelson’s fault then. Why didn’t he either recruit or go get a legitimate big man so 6’5 Gates isn’t our only option inside the paint? Lack of depth at PG, you say? Being able to shoot the basketball is kind of an important part of this game. Why hasn’t Nelson recruited better shooters? You can’t have it both ways.
|
|
|
Post by classof83 on Feb 17, 2022 10:31:13 GMT -5
Not that it was the difference between a W and L but we were 11-17 from the FT line - 65%. - the FT shooting in some of our wins was the difference.
Does anyone know the +/- when both Gates and Coulibaly were on the floor together?
Gates just doesn't have the size to match up against Mathon.
Wonder if would have helped to give MR a little play last night
|
|
|
Post by rgs318 on Feb 17, 2022 10:50:19 GMT -5
"Mathon did a good job walling up on G." That is especially true when Mathon was not called for repeatedly slamming into Gates (he had been called for that at BU). When he can physically bang into folks without any consequence, it is certainly a different ballgame.
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Feb 17, 2022 11:22:28 GMT -5
I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. Nelson’s fault then. Why didn’t he either recruit or go get a legitimate big man so 6’5 Gates isn’t our only option inside the paint? Lack of depth at PG, you say? Being able to shoot the basketball is kind of an important part of this game. Why hasn’t Nelson recruited better shooters? You can’t have it both ways. You make it sound like 6'9" bigs who can have an immediate impact in the PL grow on trees. Can you name one of those in the RW Era. Maybe Josh Sankes who transferred from Rutgers. Recruiting in general at HC, whether it be football, basketball or any sport, is not an easy proposition. In hoops you generally sign kids coming out of hs who fit one or more of these boxes. Too short, too skinny, too slow or not a great shooter. This ain't Duke where you pick who you want. Alot of hs kids are eliminated right off the bat by the AI.
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Feb 17, 2022 11:40:18 GMT -5
On the other hand, Caleb Kennedy has really picked his offensive game in the last week. He is looking to shoot more and has made 14-22 shots and perhaps more impressively, 9-11 from the charity stripe after going 15-32 from the line until then. He has averaged 9 ppg in the last 4 games vs. 3 ppg until then. Kudos to CK. Nice to see this board still keeps the memory of George Kennedy alive!
|
|
|
Post by hchoops on Feb 17, 2022 11:51:37 GMT -5
On the other hand, Caleb Kennedy has really picked his offensive game in the last week. He is looking to shoot more and has made 14-22 shots and perhaps more impressively, 9-11 from the charity stripe after going 15-32 from the line until then. He has averaged 9 ppg in the last 4 games vs. 3 ppg until then. Kudos to CK. Great point! And while I'm certainly not looking forward to not having Gates on the roster by any means (hopefully not until 23-24), Kenny has shown that he has the potential to fill that void of being an offensive weapon at the PF position. Individual metrics certainly don't always tell the full story, but just as a point of comparison, Gate's KenPom Offensive Rating during conference play in his Freshman year at New Orleans was 104.4. Kenny's ORtg in pL games this year is currently 106.8. Future is bright! How bright will next season’s future be if GG does not return ? How about if Kyrell leaves ?
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 11:58:00 GMT -5
Great point! And while I'm certainly not looking forward to not having Gates on the roster by any means (hopefully not until 23-24), Kenny has shown that he has the potential to fill that void of being an offensive weapon at the PF position. Individual metrics certainly don't always tell the full story, but just as a point of comparison, Gate's KenPom Offensive Rating during conference play in his Freshman year at New Orleans was 104.4. Kenny's ORtg in pL games this year is currently 106.8. Future is bright! How bright will next season’s future be if GG does not return ? How about if Kyrell leaves ? Not great! How many pL teams are well-positioned to lose their best two players?
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 12:09:29 GMT -5
Well, I completely disagree with your premise that the offense is solely based on one-on-one moves to the hoop. IMO, that is people judging the offense by the scoreboard rather than the play. I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. No coach is going to be able to install some type of slick offensive system that is highly efficient with the pieces and level of D1 experience that we currently have available. This is not high school basketball where Nelson.& Co. could put in some elaborate offensive sets where guys set screens all over the place, the ball gets reversed 3 times, and we get someone a wide open shot. What some seem to ignore is that the opposing team that's playing defense also has Division 1 players who are not just going to sit back and let the offense run through a full high school set without pressuring the ball, getting in passing lanes, etc. Would you prefer that HC go back to RW's bruising, grind-you-down offense (which was really meant to be a complement to the defense more than a great offense)? Because people didn't like that either, and we also don't have the personnel for that. Are there any college teams who you think HC should emulate? Do you think Matt Langel at Colgate is running a great offense that we can emulate? Or has he just collected a roster of great shooters and wants to out-shoot teams from the perimeter (#5 in KenPom 3efg%)? What was BU doing on offense last night that was superior to HC? I'm assuming you would say they were running great offense because they scored 78 points? Or was it just that they have a 6'10 5th year senior who they could just dump the ball to on the block? As a former HC coach would say, we just don't shoot it well right now. Of course that needs to improve going forward, but it's naive to think Nelson would have a roster full of sharp shooters right now given the number of holes on the roster than he needed to fill. Batchelder ("Elite Shooter" per NERR) coming in next year will be the first step in adding some much needed perimeter shooting to complement the nice pieces that Nelson has assembled across the rest of the roster. Go Cross Go!! Lots of words but you didn't answer my question.
Please explain to me why we are wrong when we say that the HC offense is totally based on beating the defender with on one-on-one moves.
That perception is not based on the scoreboard, as you suggest. It's based upon watching us play every game. That's what we do.
My concern (and the concern of may other posters) is that Nelson is a "one trick pony" in terms of offensive philosophy. One of the reasons that we can get shut down for over 8 minutes in the American game is that the other teams know what is coming every possession and are well prepared to defend it. Yeah, your premise is just wrong, sorry. Brett Nelson does not have an offensive philosophy that is just having his guys play one-on-one basketball ("one trick pony"). You have trained yourself to think that the Nelson just rolls the ball out there with no strategy because results were so poor during the first 2.5 years, when in reality that was an issue of personnel wayyyy more than strategy. I repeat an earlier comment -- Brett Nelson has played and coached at the highest levels of D1 basketball (including being a point guard on a national runner-up). He's not an idiot who knows less about offensive basketball than posters on Crossports. In Nelon's last three years on the staff at Marquette (last two as Assoc. Head Coach), the team finished 8-12-32 in the country in KenPom Offensive Efficiency. Do you think he just had his headphones in and wasn't paying any attention when the team was working on their offense?
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 12:23:55 GMT -5
I'm honestly befuddled at what you want the offense to do. We don't have a true big guy, our true PG is hurt, our shooting is limited, and we're putting a ton of weight on a Freshmen PG to both facilitate and be a top scorer. Nelson’s fault then. Why didn’t he either recruit or go get a legitimate big man so 6’5 Gates isn’t our only option inside the paint? Lack of depth at PG, you say? Being able to shoot the basketball is kind of an important part of this game. Why hasn’t Nelson recruited better shooters? You can’t have it both ways. OK, what do you think is a good hit rate on recruits, or do you expect it to be 100%? Nelson has brought in the following guys (w/ class year) -Martindale (Soph) -Rabinovich (Soph) -Humphrey (Soph) -Montgomery (Soph) -RJJ (Soph) -Louth (Soph) -Gates (Senior) (Transfer) -Townsel (Senior) (Transfer) -Luc (Freshman) -Kenny (Freshman) -Lewis (Freshman) -Dorsey (Soph) (Transfer) Try to see if you can be reasonable one time here -- how many of those guys are total busts based on the time that they've been at HC and what they've shown so far? Y If it makes you feel better, you can even ignore all context in terms of the dreadful program that he was recruiting into, global pandemic, etc. that he's had to deal with and just look strictly at the players. For bigs, in two classes, he has brought in Gates (all-pL player), Louth, and Rabinovich. Gates is obvious and Louth is raw, but appears to be progressing very well given that he's only been here for 13 months, and Rabinovich should be a nice piece as a 3rd big at bare minimum if he can stay healthy. Lewis also has potential a scoring weapon at the 4. I'm not sure what else you can ask for. 6'12 guys don't grow on trees, especially ones who can be immediate contributors, and ones who are interested in a pL program that's been in the sh***er for the last 10 years. I think at bare minimum, there are 3 all-pL caliber players (Gates, Luc, Bo) with the potential for several more (Kenny, RJJ, Louth, etc.) if they can continue to develop. There are a number of complementary players who fit roles across the roster, and who have already provided contributions in short order. Right now, there is one potential bust, and I am hesitant to even go that far because he has shown flashes of being better than he's been recently, another poster alluded to a potential injury, and it's just too early in his career. Would it be nice to have a couple more knock-down shooters? Sure! But, we also might already have what we need in the mix if Lewis can start to get on the floor next year, Batchelder comes in as advertised, Humphrey is able to get over the hump, and Martindale comes out of this funk -- the potential is there, and it's very important to remember how young these guys are. Go Cross Go!!!
|
|
|
Post by timholycross on Feb 17, 2022 12:24:23 GMT -5
Assuming your point is correct BBC, last night to the casual observer (me), they reverted to what the posters are complaining about.
Perhaps Nelson's strategy broke down (repeatedly) and they were left with no other options than head to the basket as the shot clock was running down; I don't know.
That certainly happened a ton of times in the Carmody years; and Luc's a hell of a lot better making something out of nothing than Patrick Benzan was.
It's concerning that when Martindale's in the game he stands (instructed, I'm sure) in the corner (best spot for a 3 ball attempt); and come hell of high water; the ball never comes to him.
|
|
|
Post by dadominate on Feb 17, 2022 12:25:11 GMT -5
bbc, i'll give you credit for one thing... you are a master at spin. an absolute master. if you genuinely believe everything you post, which is hard to believe, you could be given a platter full of crap and seemingly go to your grave swearing it was caviar.
while nelson's tenure has been thoroughly unimpressive so far - again, how can one objectively argue that he is off to anything other than a poor start at hc?!? - i don't have anything against the guy. during your sudden disappearance (purely a coincidence, i'm sure) in the midst of our painfully long d1 losing streak, i vociferously defended nelson and his decisions against the criticism levied by some busybody professor.
but my god man, you're like a caricature when it comes to your criticism of everything carmody did and defense of everything nelson does.
we all hope nelson turns it around and gets us back to winning pl championships, but some objectivity and shades of gray would make your posts much more palatable. we can't keep losing the way we are and expect anyone to be optimistic because a single player has looked good in spots or the next hyped up can't miss recruit is going to be the one who can put the ball in the hole.
we need to start seeing consistent wins, especially in the unusually weak pl this year... no ifs, ands, or buts about it.
|
|
|
Post by bringbackcaro on Feb 17, 2022 13:08:52 GMT -5
bbc, i'll give you credit for one thing... you are a master at spin. an absolute master. if you genuinely believe everything you post, which is hard to believe, you could be given a platter full of crap and seemingly go to your grave swearing it was caviar. while nelson's tenure has been thoroughly unimpressive so far - again, how can one objectively argue that he is off to anything other than a poor start at hc?!? - i don't have anything against the guy. during your sudden disappearance (purely a coincidence, i'm sure) in the midst of our painfully long d1 losing streak, i vociferously defended nelson and his decisions against the criticism levied by some busybody professor. but my god man, you're like a caricature when it comes to your criticism of everything carmody did and defense of everything nelson does. we all hope nelson turns it around and gets us back to winning pl championships, but some objectivity and shades of gray would make your posts much more palatable. we can't keep losing the way we are and expect anyone to be optimistic because a single player has looked good in spots or the next hyped up can't miss recruit is going to be the one who can put the ball in the hole. we need to start seeing consistent wins, especially in the unusually weak pl this year... no ifs, ands, or buts about it. We have played 8 games in the last 20 days and gone 5-3, including 3 wins on the road. if what Nelson has done in the last 20 days is an indicator of what's to come (and continue to improve as the roster fills out), how badly we sucked in 19-20 is completely irrelevant, and how badly we sucked in this year's OOC also becomes irrelevant. It was never about Years 1-3 in this re-build. It was always about Year 4+, when we will finally have a talented core of upperclassmen again. The results of the past are totally unacceptable going forward, but I am optimistic (especially after the past three week) that this will not be the case. Sorrey if that offends you.
|
|
|
Post by hc17 on Feb 17, 2022 14:28:44 GMT -5
Overall, the fairly recent success, but general disappointment of the season has muddied the waters in how to interpret the state of the program and it's trajectory. Nelson does deserve credit for his ability to churn out a few victories and post a respectable conference record (within reason) given the team had not posted a single D1 victory in OOC play.
Entering the season, it was probably fair to assume that Gates & RJJ were our most important players heading into the year. From the jump, RJJ was injured, it showed and is not out for the remainder of the year. The team is overly reliant on Luc for scoring and playmaking. Is that Nelson's fault? Sure, you could say so, but I'd imagine he would have thought a Johnson & Luc backcourt would have been the foundation of the team this year. Unfortunately, that vision has not been realized, but remains an enticing prospect. While I would have liked to have seen Dorsey see more time as the PG throughout the year, he's clearly viewed differently to Nelson & staff.
If there was a miscalculation on the part of Nelson & staff, it probably comes down to Martindale. Just given his participation in the season preview podcast, which is often reserved for team leaders & better players, and role within the offense earlier in the season, I believe Nelson anticipated more growth from his wing player. I think going forward he is primarily a catch & shoot option on O to space the floor and has proven to be limited on D, which is probably the reason his minutes have been reduced. Unless he continues to develop, I don't think he is a 'core' piece for this program to build around. Similar to Bubba, we will need these 3 & D types to help space the floor for our playmakers & more gifted scorers.
So with the big picture in mind, Batchelder needs to be a core piece. RJJ, Luc, and potentially a great scorer in Batchelder, could provide enough juice for us to climb the ladder with the rotational pieces. A developed Louth can catapult us up the standings and potentially into conference title contention. Right now, RJJ is out, Louth is raw & needs time and Batchelder hasn't arrived on the Hill. It's frustrating that some haven't taken a development leap akin to the Butler, Grandison, Green and Faw class in their sophomore year.
We can quibble over the Xs and Os of the team, but we were never going to win a league title with an unexperienced group this year. If we drop the final 3 games and finish in the bottom 3 of the conference, there will be plenty of debate over whether or not Nelson is back for year 4. We can all acknowledge the results of the past are unacceptable, but seismic leap will need to take place next season (.500 in PL Play is unacceptable).
|
|
|
Post by crusader1970 on Feb 17, 2022 14:52:27 GMT -5
BBC:
I surrender. You are so much smarter and more forward looking than the rest of us. We simply do not see the "bright future" you project.
As statistical underdogs, the likelihood is that we will end the regular PL schedule with 6 straight losses. I hope not. But that is a strong possibility.
Should that be the case, we can resume this discussion at that time.
Cheers!
|
|
|
Post by trimster on Feb 17, 2022 15:18:24 GMT -5
I agree with your agreement. Many of the individual players have improved with at least one very notable exception. But, the key is that while the individual skill levels have improved, there seems to be very little . . . . . . wait for it . . . . . "synergy." We generally have 5 guys trying to play one-on-one. Gates or Luc driving to the basket with especially the former going, no exaggeration, 1 on 4 to the basket. We played close to the Terriers for most of the game but at the end we faded. So after winning 5 out of 6, we've now lost 2 in a row. Oh, for those who think the 3 games a week is too much (many of our PL colleagues in the same boat), if I heard Coach Kennedy at the "Chalk Talk" correctly, he thought it no big deal as almost all the players have played AAU ball which is the same frequency. And Austin Lewis a great teammate and understands his role on the team which isn't in the game for now but he's improving and has gained 20-25 pounds. Others with better hearing and better memories can fill in the many blanks that I've created. Did the topic of RJ's prognosis for next season come up?
|
|
|
Post by sader1970 on Feb 17, 2022 15:19:47 GMT -5
Not that I recall. NAD? Tom? Others? Was that a question where his answer was essentially "can't get into details due to HIPA?"
There was a question of Gates' status for next year and Kennedy slipped the punch. Something like still being explored.
|
|