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Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2016 21:08:40 GMT -5
With scholarships, Holy Cross football has never been this bad. I'm really at a loss as to where this program goes from here. Drop the sport? Hire a new guy and continue to "bang our heads against a wall?"
Total and complete fundamental change is needed or we should really start thinking about a Holy Cross athletic program without a football program....maybe that's the way to go....invest in improvements (league-wise and/or otherwise) in basketball and hockey.
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Post by KY Crusader 75 on Nov 12, 2016 21:12:08 GMT -5
Isn't it enough for you that we will be discussing the likelihood of getting a new head coach and new assistants? Let's forego the "drop the sport" debate. That's one man's opinion.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2016 21:16:18 GMT -5
I think it has gotten to the point that talk of dropping the sport has entered the equation.
Is Gilmore that bad of a coach or do we face obstacles as a school that can't be overcome in the world of D1 football in 2016?
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Post by jkh67 on Nov 12, 2016 21:34:11 GMT -5
I graduated in 1967. My class finished 2-2 against BC ( and one loss was by 10-8). We played Syracuse in those days. (Not to mention UConn and UMass.) Not equally in the case of the Orange, for sure, but not badly either. (I remember Dick Giardi stuffing Floyd Little a few times one Saturday afternoon at Fitton.) After the Division I realignment, we had great teams in the '80s and early '90s. And then, but for the Randolph years, the bottom fell out. I love Fitton Field and HC football, but I've reluctantly concluded this year that the "jig is up" for HC football, even with a new coach. Today's Fordham game...a school that didn't even have a football program back when I was on the Hill...showed that. I'd like to think that a new coach could change things, but I'm no longer sure that is realistic. We may be better off spending the $4 million dollars or so that we spend on losing football on other things...LIKE WINNING BASKETBALL.
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Post by bikeman on Nov 12, 2016 21:37:05 GMT -5
Wrong. A new head coach, the right head coach, can change things fast.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2016 22:13:36 GMT -5
Gilmore is a horrific head football coach, of that we know.....I'm just not sure we are evah going to get that much bettah to justify the money etc that it takes to have decent 1-AA program. Is it worth it in today's world?
I love having a football program and it's been a very big part of my life...but, is the school bettah off putting the resources to other sports today? I think this is a question we really should start asking ourselves.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 12, 2016 22:41:41 GMT -5
We've already made the investments in facilities. We have a great stadium. We're building an indoor practice facility, new locker room, new weight room, etc. We should add permanent lights and upgraded dressing rooms to Fitton. (Today is November 12, our last game of the season, and we played at a better time, 3PM, but it was only possible because there were lights at Yankee Stadium.) It's possible that we could get an excellent coach. We have an outstanding AD. There is only one obstacle to us being competitive. It's an obstacle that is a black box. Although there are a myriad of anecdotes, no one knows the real story, and those that do are not talking. I'm talking about ADMISSIONS. Maybe there's no room to improve the Admissions situation. Maybe it's as accommodating as it could be under all the rules. But we don't KNOW that. Until we know that Admissions is as forward leaning as they could be--until it's proven--we don't know that we're doing everything possible to make the program successful. If it's proven that Admissions could not get any more accommodating and if we can't find a truly outstanding coach, we should go the GTown route. We would still retain the exceptional facilities and we would have a tremendous edge in recruiting against our new peers.
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Post by JRGNYR on Nov 12, 2016 22:43:18 GMT -5
Dropping football isn't happening now. The time to do it would've been when the rest of the league went to scholarships.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 12, 2016 22:49:37 GMT -5
I hope you're right sota......more and more though, I have the uneasy feeling that we are just pissing into the wind with regahhhds to football. No one really cares, attendance at Fitton is brutal, we are a blip in the media football-wise, we are a generation and a half removed from alumni who cared about football etc etc.....
Hate to be a downah here....I just don't see much of a future for Holy Cross football.....and that saddens me deeply.
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Post by Xmassader on Nov 12, 2016 23:30:40 GMT -5
Some numbers. Since '92 (25 seasons)---3 ADs, 3 coaches, 111 Ws 168 Ls, .398 winning%, 10 winning seasons, 1 season with 3 or fewer losses, 1 PL championship. Since '04 (13 seasons---start of CTG tenure)---2 ADs, 70 Ws, 76 Ls .479 winning %, 8 winning seasons, 1 season with 3 or fewer losses, 1 PL Championship. Since '12 (5 seasons)---2 ADs, 19 Ws, 38 Ls, .333 winning %, 1 winning season, 0 seasons with 3 or fewer losses, 0 PL Championships. Admittedly, there are coaching issues. Seems as if the structural issues are equal to or greater. TPTB need to commit to excellence. 1 championship in 25 yrs. with only 6 league opponents one of whom doesn't have scholarships doesn't qualify.
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Post by ncaam on Nov 13, 2016 3:10:31 GMT -5
Hasn't Nate Pine hired all his own coaches by now including football if you consider the CTG extension a hire? Results? Zero. Hasn't money spent on "marketing" been a big loser as well. Nate Pine has to shoulder some of the blame as well. What is the trajectory of all our athletics programs?
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Post by bigfan on Nov 13, 2016 8:05:53 GMT -5
Don't blame Nate Pine, the problem starts at the Admissions Office. Ask any coach and they will tell you where the problem is. We have lost many top athletes to other PL schools because they did not get accepted while the other schools took the athletes. Some even were accepted into Ivy League schools and were rejected at Mt. Saint James.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 13, 2016 11:08:55 GMT -5
If it is mostly on Admissions, and not on Nate, then it isn't on Tom Gilmore either.
Do we know of any cases where a recruit was rejected by another PL or IL school and was admitted to Holy Cross? I am sure the posters from other PL schools feel the same way.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 13, 2016 11:16:05 GMT -5
A real STUDY should be done and paid for. It's that important. Depending on the results of the study, "promote" McDermott out of Admissions to a higher position in the Administration. Obviously, somebody has been protecting her over the years.
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Post by joe on Nov 13, 2016 11:25:31 GMT -5
Maybe someone who has all the numbers should submit a piece to the T&G and start the discussion.
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Post by gks on Nov 13, 2016 12:07:37 GMT -5
Anne McDermott is not a friend of HC athletics.
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Post by sarasota on Nov 13, 2016 12:10:33 GMT -5
gks- If true, that could be THE #1 reason we fall short. Who's protecting her?
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Post by ncaam on Nov 13, 2016 12:28:00 GMT -5
If admissions is the problem, it's Nate pine'S job to run it up the flagpole.
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Post by hc87 on Nov 13, 2016 12:35:54 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but i find it very hard to believe admissions is the biggest reason this program has stagnated. While I'm sure it hasn't helped matters to a certain extent, the problems lie far deeper than just that.
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Post by sader1970 on Nov 13, 2016 15:04:11 GMT -5
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Post by joe on Nov 13, 2016 16:03:24 GMT -5
The best.
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Post by alum on Nov 13, 2016 17:01:51 GMT -5
If TPTB wanted athletes admitted, they would instruct Ann M to admit more. She has their support and blame for the failure to admit athletes, if justified, rests with some above her pay grade. (Please don't think I am defending her. I am not impressed with her office's outreach nationally so I am not a big fan.)
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Post by cmo on Nov 13, 2016 17:11:45 GMT -5
Dropping football isn't happening now. The time to do it would've been when the rest of the league went to scholarships. Or before we built an indoor practice facility
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Post by sarasota on Nov 13, 2016 17:19:51 GMT -5
Other teams are happy to use that facility. I think downgrade is much more likely than termination. Are there any D2 leagues that might be a fit?
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Post by timholycross on Nov 13, 2016 17:41:15 GMT -5
You answered that question yesterday....can't be in one division without downgrading every sport.
...and just for informational purposes, football in New England below D1 is all non-scholarship. Just the way the D2 schools involved want to do it. When those schools get to post season play they are at a big disadvantage...and why you don't see too many of them playing FCS games.
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