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Post by rf1 on Jun 16, 2022 8:26:28 GMT -5
The bishop is an idiot that only leads the Catholic Church to further irrelevancy.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 16, 2022 8:38:34 GMT -5
Tom, your last post nailed it.
Vince was fairly squirming at the discussion and, you're right, he was patiently trying to explain that while someone may not care of the politics of the BLM, it means much to many black Americans and the bishop is not making any distinction. Again, I may be reading too much into what he said but my take was he has tried unsuccessfully to explain this to the bishop. Vince seems (correctly) that him wanting to take down the BLM flag is an affront to most of the students at the school.
He really avoided the LGBTQ rainbow flag.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 16, 2022 8:40:18 GMT -5
Just don't send him back to Providence. The one we have is bad enough.
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Post by rf1 on Jun 16, 2022 8:58:20 GMT -5
Just don't send him back to Providence. The one we have is bad enough.
Tobin is far worse. He regularly uses religion as a weapon to wage his wars. Fortunately very few in RI take him seriously.
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Post by Tom on Jun 16, 2022 21:22:38 GMT -5
Word on the street is that tomorrow, the bishop will announce that the Nativity School of Worcester can no longer identify as Catholic. The bishop's authority is not absolute in this matter. There is a process for appeals Per various news sources, the ax fell today.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 0:56:06 GMT -5
Tom, your last post nailed it. Vince was fairly squirming at the discussion and, you're right, he was patiently trying to explain that while someone may not care of the politics of the BLM, it means much to many black Americans and the bishop is not making any distinction. Again, I may be reading to much into what he said but my take was he has tried unsuccessfully to explain this to the bishop. Vince seems (correctly) that him wanting to take down the BLM flag is an affront to most of the students at the school. He really avoided the LGBTQ rainbow flag. Vince has less cover with LGBTQ issues. The Church embraces civil rights but considers LGBTQ sinful. All he needed was for a hard line conservative Catholic zealot to hijack the meeting. I assume the few remaining came out of the woodwork and contacted him when he became President and he remembers how tough it was to get them off the phone.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 1:01:51 GMT -5
Word on the street is that tomorrow, the bishop will announce that the Nativity School of Worcester can no longer identify as Catholic. The bishop's authority is not absolute in this matter. There is a process for appeals Per various news sources, the ax fell today. The ten year appeal process will keep the T&G in business and allow the Nativity School to reduce it's recruitment budget with all the free publicity.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 1:14:53 GMT -5
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Post by mm67 on Jun 17, 2022 6:00:44 GMT -5
Shame on him. Disgraceful, hateful little man. His reaction to BLM shows his political leanings. BLM was a slogan in reaction to the shooting deaths of Black males by police. In essence people were saying our Black lives matter, too. As for LGBQT+, one could reject the behavior as sinful, etc but embrace the sinner. And, recognize that we all need to be affirmed as Children of God. Pope Francis has pointed out that some positions taken by some bishops are culturally/politically based and are not rooted in Catholic theology and the Church's understanding of God's love. Expect the school will survive and thrive long after the bishop passes on to his heavenly reward.
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Post by Tom on Jun 17, 2022 6:32:55 GMT -5
Tom, your last post nailed it. Vince was fairly squirming at the discussion and, you're right, he was patiently trying to explain that while someone may not care of the politics of the BLM, it means much to many black Americans and the bishop is not making any distinction. Again, I may be reading to much into what he said but my take was he has tried unsuccessfully to explain this to the bishop. Vince seems (correctly) that him wanting to take down the BLM flag is an affront to most of the students at the school. He really avoided the LGBTQ rainbow flag. Vince has less cover with LGBTQ issues. The Church embraces civil rights but considers LGBTQ sinful. All he needed was for a hard line conservative Catholic zealot to hijack the meeting. I assume the few remaining came out of the woodwork and contacted him when he became President and he remembers how tough it was to get them off the phone. I don't think this is precisely the position. as MM67 said I don't think being LBGTQ+ is considered sinful. "Being" anything isn't sinful. There is an action associated with LBGTQ+ that is considered sinful. Being LBGTQ+ is not the same as participating in that action. It is reasonable to assume some people do and some do not. I am not in a position to throw the first stone, or guess which people that identify as LBGTQ+ participate in the action in question. I do know the church is never going to back down on sin or be seen as endorsing sinful actions. Right after Jesus said that the person with no sin should throw the first stone, he told the woman to stop doing the action that got her in trouble. Life would be much easier if the bishop bought the school a flag that said something like "All are welcome here" and a "Hate has no home here" and quietly worked behind the scene with the school to come up with a solution that sends the message the school says the flags represent while at the same time doesn't lead to the potential interpretation that the bishop is focusing on. Publicly drawing lines in the sand just gets people's back up and rarely resolves an issue
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Post by clmetsfan on Jun 17, 2022 6:54:22 GMT -5
I wonder if this dunce of a bishop has ever looked up the dictionary definition of catholic.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 17, 2022 7:26:30 GMT -5
He may have checked out the Baltimore Catechism...as learned to recite it as a schoolboy. Too bad he didn't read and remember other sources, like the Bible..."Judge not lest you yourself be judged."
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 17, 2022 8:47:41 GMT -5
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 17, 2022 9:07:56 GMT -5
This was troubling... "Another edict: Mass, sacraments and sacramentals are no longer permitted to be celebrated on Nativity School premises or be sponsored by Nativity School in any church building or chapel within the Diocese of Worcester.
The Nativity School, which traditionally does not receive funding from the diocese, said it will continue to display the flags in question."
Is the school now considered "evil" ground (as opposed to "sacred ground")? That ban on sacraments and even sacramentals seems absurd in the extreme. I applaud the school's decision to appeal and hope that there are still some rational minds left in the Church....who can see the risk of damage that such an edict poses.
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Post by clmetsfan on Jun 17, 2022 9:22:10 GMT -5
This was troubling... "Another edict: Mass, sacraments and sacramentals are no longer permitted to be celebrated on Nativity School premises or be sponsored by Nativity School in any church building or chapel within the Diocese of Worcester. The Nativity School, which traditionally does not receive funding from the diocese, said it will continue to display the flags in question." Is the school now considered "evil" ground (as opposed to "sacred ground")? That ban on sacraments and even sacramentals seems absurd in the extreme. I applaud the school's decision to appeal and hope that there are still some rational minds left in the Church....who can see the risk of damage that such an edict poses. Even my cynical ass can acknowledge that there are surely some rational minds left in the Church. Whether there are any in positions to influence its direction, however....
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 17, 2022 11:49:22 GMT -5
Too bad one cannot appeal this directly to a Jesuit (named Francis?).
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 17, 2022 12:33:55 GMT -5
Too bad one cannot appeal this directly to a Jesuit (named Francis?). A Jesuit in the Papacy must irk hard line Clerics in the Catholic Church. The local Jesuit community must at least be able to get this issue moved up to the top of the Jesuit pipeline which is probably closer to this Pope than most. How about this for a Papal Decree: "All Jesuit Schools are Catholic Schools and it is the role of Diocesan Officisls to fully support them and Catholic Schools sponsored by other Catholic Orders."
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 17, 2022 14:40:00 GMT -5
I do like that idea!
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Post by rf1 on Jun 18, 2022 8:48:51 GMT -5
The actions of McManus will backfire. He will have brought the Nativity School lots of good press that should drive up its donations. Conversely McManus will have brought much bad press to the diocese which will likely have the effect of a reduction in its donations.
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Post by rgs318 on Jun 18, 2022 9:02:19 GMT -5
That is sad to see...but possibly quite accurate.
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Post by sader1970 on Jun 18, 2022 9:25:03 GMT -5
With no editorial comments by me, here is what Wikipedia has on the bishop:
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woorat
Climbing Mt. St. James
Posts: 66
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Post by woorat on Jun 18, 2022 9:37:16 GMT -5
rf1 hit the nail on the head......He is an idiot who thinks he is God!
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Post by mm67 on Jun 18, 2022 9:45:28 GMT -5
The Church offers so much good in pastoral care and love. Can't allow this one minor bishop to ruin the whole thing.
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Post by longsuffering on Jun 18, 2022 11:13:43 GMT -5
I hope high school seminaries are well out of favor these days. That's way too young. Those are such formative years that removing the future Priest/Bishop from the give and take of teenage secular society and replacing it with the rigidity of Church doctrine reduces the future Cleric's ability to coexist with others having different viewpoints.
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jun 18, 2022 18:15:49 GMT -5
Too bad one cannot appeal this directly to a Jesuit (named Francis?). A Jesuit in the Papacy must irk hard line Clerics in the Catholic Church. The local Jesuit community must at least be able to get this issue moved up to the top of the Jesuit pipeline which is probably closer to this Pope than most. How about this for a Papal Decree: "All Jesuit Schools are Catholic Schools and it is the role of Diocesan Officisls to fully support them and Catholic Schools sponsored by other Catholic Orders." Except bishops have temporal authority over an entire diocese. Schools (Jesuit or otherwise) are situated there at the discretion of the bishop. Not that he would, but a bishop could expel a school from his diocese. If a Jesuit pope irks some in the church, it's very, very likely the next Pope will not be an S.J. The Curia always outlives its leaders.
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