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Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2022 15:09:44 GMT -5
If we want to improve the hockey program, the answer is JOIN HOCKEY EAST and we will increase attendance and we will be able to recruit better players. I would think with the woman's program already in HE, the men's program would have the inside track on HE membership. I guess that would mean renting the DCU Center and that smacks of big-time athletics, something HC has gone out of its way to avoid. I'd like to see Riga build the program success and attendance to the point the DCU is needed for some games because the Hart Rink is too small, regardless of what league we are in. Some feel that HC can't win in the AHA because we can't attract good players like the other league members can with their more flexible admissions. I would love to see Riga and staff put that thesis to bed. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 28, 2022 16:44:31 GMT -5
Kit Hughes said that HC is not spending $70 million (the cost of UConn's rink) on the Hart rink.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2022 17:07:35 GMT -5
Kit Hughes said that HC is not spending $70 million (the cost of UConn's rink) on the Hart rink. Let the city build us $100 million dollar indoor and outdoor venues a mile away for when/if we need them. Oh wait, they already did. We'll pay them back in real estate taxes. Oh wait, HC doesn't pay real estate taxes. |
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 114
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Post by aaa8316 on Sept 28, 2022 19:44:22 GMT -5
If we want to improve the hockey program, the answer is JOIN HOCKEY EAST and we will increase attendance and we will be able to recruit better players. What is the case for HE to admit the HC men? Good grief....this again? Why on Earth would HE want Holy Cross right now? Please explain this. Holy Cross was just picked LAST in the coaches poll in the weakest Div 1 conference. This isn't intramurals. Other AD's (who actually hold the votes on this stuff) aren't the United Way, opening the doors for "participaction" and togetherness. |
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 28, 2022 20:10:23 GMT -5
What is the case for HE to admit the HC men? Good grief....this again? Why on Earth would HE want Holy Cross right now? Please explain this. Holy Cross was just picked LAST in the coaches poll in the weakest Div 1 conference. This isn't intramurals. Other AD's (who actually hold the votes on this stuff) aren't the United Way, opening the doors for "participaction" and togetherness. I was asking big fan what the case is. I agree with you there is no current case. HC should look at the AHA as an opportunity. Just look at the HC women in HE. If the women could have moved up directly to the NEWHA, which didn't exist when they joined the HE, they might very well have continued their winning tradition without interruption based on the schools that moved up to form that low D-1 league. To me, consistent losing is soul sucking and isn't ameliorated by losing to well known or prestigious institutions. |
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Post by Tom on Sept 29, 2022 8:19:04 GMT -5
If we want to improve the hockey program, the answer is JOIN HOCKEY EAST and we will increase attendance and we will be able to recruit better players. What is the case for HE to admit the HC men? There are an odd number of teams in HE and scheduling is better with an even number. HC women play in HE |
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 114
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Post by aaa8316 on Sept 29, 2022 8:42:56 GMT -5
What is the case for HE to admit the HC men? There are an odd number of teams in HE and scheduling is better with an even number. HC women play in HE So the superficial math makes sense... Do you think the other 11 AD's in Hockey East want to add a 12th member that ATHLETICALLY has absolutely no business being in that league? And whether our bleed-purple alumni can accept it or not, Holy Cross is not Notre Dame. We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience. The last time I checked, Hockey East (Men) cares about competition, Pairwise, etc. They clearly don't need to add to do the bottom of their league where there are enough gremlins annually: Maine, Vermont, Merrimack (all have wayyyy better facilities and support than Holy Cross btw).\ So please, for the sanity of all, please stop bringing up Holy Cross Men's Hockey to Hockey East. |
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Post by Tom on Sept 29, 2022 9:38:11 GMT -5
There are an odd number of teams in HE and scheduling is better with an even number. HC women play in HE So the superficial math makes sense... Do you think the other 11 AD's in Hockey East want to add a 12th member that ATHLETICALLY has absolutely no business being in that league? And whether our bleed-purple alumni can accept it or not, Holy Cross is not Notre Dame. We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience. The last time I checked, Hockey East (Men) cares about competition, Pairwise, etc. They clearly don't need to add to do the bottom of their league where there are enough gremlins annually: Maine, Vermont, Merrimack (all have wayyyy better facilities and support than Holy Cross btw).\ So please, for the sanity of all, please stop bringing up Holy Cross Men's Hockey to Hockey East. the question on the table was "What is the case for HE to admit the HC men?" Not " Are the reasons for HE taking HC at this time better than the reasons for not taking HC at this time?" or "Do you think HC is currently an attractive option for HE?" Someone asked what the pro's were for HE to invite HC. I answered it. Even if HE's con's outweigh their pro's, that doesn't mean there aren't pro's |
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 29, 2022 10:13:11 GMT -5
Probably just me but I don't lose a wink of sleep that men's hockey is not in Hockey East. And while not "entertaining,' it is a diversion to read these posts.
Just win in the conference we're in and then speculate on HE. I might even be interested if we start winning and dominating the league we are in.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 29, 2022 10:54:26 GMT -5
We are fortunate to have had a chance to test the "Join the (Big East, Hockey East, CAA FB, etc.) and they (quality players who can win in a tougher league) will come" theory with the women in HE. So far those talented enough to win hockey players haven't come to HC. The experiment is ongoing however.
The exception that didn't have a chance to prove the rule is the original BE invite. We would have started out on equal or favorable footing with the other charter invitees.
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 29, 2022 12:12:04 GMT -5
So the superficial math makes sense... Do you think the other 11 AD's in Hockey East want to add a 12th member that ATHLETICALLY has absolutely no business being in that league? And whether our bleed-purple alumni can accept it or not, Holy Cross is not Notre Dame. We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience. The last time I checked, Hockey East (Men) cares about competition, Pairwise, etc. They clearly don't need to add to do the bottom of their league where there are enough gremlins annually: Maine, Vermont, Merrimack (all have wayyyy better facilities and support than Holy Cross btw).\ So please, for the sanity of all, please stop bringing up Holy Cross Men's Hockey to Hockey East. the question on the table was "What is the case for HE to admit the HC men?" Not " Are the reasons for HE taking HC at this time better than the reasons for not taking HC at this time?" or "Do you think HC is currently an attractive option for HE?" Someone asked what the pro's were for HE to invite HC. I answered it. Even if HE's con's outweigh their pro's, that doesn't mean there aren't pro's And the reasons for Hockey East to add Sacred Heart, AIC, Bentley, etc are so much better.... |
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 29, 2022 12:34:26 GMT -5
"We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience."
Location and convenience are the two characteristics that are immutable, and the fact they are in our favor is important. We CAN get better, we CAN build an improved venue. All we need is the committment.
I think that with Coach Riga, we have a great recruiter and coach who will start to deliver results this year. Improvement in Atlantic Hockey is imperative if we ever have any hope of a league upgrade.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 29, 2022 12:42:49 GMT -5
the question on the table was "What is the case for HE to admit the HC men?" Not " Are the reasons for HE taking HC at this time better than the reasons for not taking HC at this time?" or "Do you think HC is currently an attractive option for HE?" Someone asked what the pro's were for HE to invite HC. I answered it. Even if HE's con's outweigh their pro's, that doesn't mean there aren't pro's And the reasons for Hockey East to add Sacred Heart, AIC, Bentley, etc are so much better.... The younger the HE ADs are the better those three schools look compared to HC as a potential addition. The burden for 70-ish New England or Holy Cross Sports fans is that HC goes with BC, BU, Northeastern in their memory banks and Sacred Heart, AIC and Bentley are current or former D-2 schools. The ADs are being paid to deal in current reality so they can't give ancient history much weight when they vote. |
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aaa8316
Crusader Century Club
Posts: 114
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Post by aaa8316 on Sept 29, 2022 14:18:27 GMT -5
"We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience." Location and convenience are the two characteristics that are immutable, and the fact they are in our favor is important. We CAN get better, we CAN build an improved venue. All we need is the committment. I think that with Coach Riga, we have a great recruiter and coach who will start to deliver results this year. Improvement in Atlantic Hockey is imperative if we ever have any hope of a league upgrade. Important -- yes. However, those factors are so far down the list of importance vs. winning/success, resources, commitment from the institution, commitment to Hockey East expectations.
To drastically improve HC Men's Hockey they cannot (anymore I hope with Riga in charge) recruit average players into the bottom of the line-up. That philosophy breeds mediocrity -- which is exactly what the program has now been for a decade. And some years, that is being generous. Therefore, why would Hockey East take a similar approach for their 12th member -- adding a poorly performing, underfunded program with arguably the worst facility in Div 1?
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Post by bfoley82 on Sept 29, 2022 14:29:00 GMT -5
"We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience." Location and convenience are the two characteristics that are immutable, and the fact they are in our favor is important. We CAN get better, we CAN build an improved venue. All we need is the committment. I think that with Coach Riga, we have a great recruiter and coach who will start to deliver results this year. Improvement in Atlantic Hockey is imperative if we ever have any hope of a league upgrade. Important -- yes. However, those factors are so far down the list of importance vs. winning/success, resources, commitment from the institution, commitment to Hockey East expectations.
To drastically improve HC Men's Hockey they cannot (anymore I hope with Riga in charge) recruit average players into the bottom of the line-up. That philosophy breeds mediocrity -- which is exactly what the program has now been for a decade. And some years, that is being generous. Therefore, why would Hockey East take a similar approach for their 12th member -- adding a poorly performing, underfunded program with arguably the worst facility in Div 1?
With schools inside the conference radius with better facilities and history? |
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Post by Chu Chu on Sept 29, 2022 14:39:04 GMT -5
"We are not attractive to Hockey East for almost every reason short of location and convenience." Location and convenience are the two characteristics that are immutable, and the fact they are in our favor is important. We CAN get better, we CAN build an improved venue. All we need is the committment. I think that with Coach Riga, we have a great recruiter and coach who will start to deliver results this year. Improvement in Atlantic Hockey is imperative if we ever have any hope of a league upgrade. Important -- yes. However, those factors are so far down the list of importance vs. winning/success, resources, commitment from the institution, commitment to Hockey East expectations.
To drastically improve HC Men's Hockey they cannot (anymore I hope with Riga in charge) recruit average players into the bottom of the line-up. That philosophy breeds mediocrity -- which is exactly what the program has now been for a decade. And some years, that is being generous. Therefore, why would Hockey East take a similar approach for their 12th member -- adding a poorly performing, underfunded program with arguably the worst facility in Div 1?
I think that we agree. "Winning/success, resources, commitment from the institution, commitment to Hockey East expectations" are all things we can change. My point is, we have two important characteristics that are immutable, and the rest we can commit to. Is there a will? I think that this season will help to find out. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 29, 2022 15:46:25 GMT -5
My recollections about MB's and KH's presentations on the Hart rink are that:
a.) major improvements are needed on the men's side. The facilities, e.g., locker room, are too small and not what recruited athletes expect of a Division I ice hockey school. This is the base kevel of any future investment in the rink. This will be funded.
b.) repair, replacement, and upgrades of the utilities infrastructure. This is likely the next funding increment.
c.) a modest increase in seating capacity.
d.) a significant increase in seating capacity.
Sasaki was asked to prepare and present options for c.) and d.) and the associated costs for options c.) and d.) Its possible there is an option e.) associated with seating and amenities.
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 29, 2022 17:14:28 GMT -5
My recollections about MB's and KH's presentations on the Hart rink are that: a.) major improvements are needed on the men's side. The facilities, e.g., locker room, are too small and not what recruited athletes expect of a Division I ice hockey school. This is the base kevel of any future investment in the rink. This will be funded. b.) repair, replacement, and upgrades of the utilities infrastructure. This is likely the next funding increment. c.) a modest increase in seating capacity. d.) a significant increase in seating capacity. Sasaki was asked to prepare and present options for c.) and d.) and the associated costs for options c.) and d.) Its possible there is an option e.) associated with seating and amenities. What if there is an option f.) either H.E. or the ECAC says "We don't care about the Hart rink for now. Just schedule your league games at the DCU, increase your coaching and recruiting budgets to league average, pay the entrance fee and the AHA exit fee and you are in." Would that be funded? |
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Post by sader1970 on Sept 29, 2022 17:28:31 GMT -5
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 29, 2022 17:53:33 GMT -5
My recollections about MB's and KH's presentations on the Hart rink are that: a.) major improvements are needed on the men's side. The facilities, e.g., locker room, are too small and not what recruited athletes expect of a Division I ice hockey school. This is the base kevel of any future investment in the rink. This will be funded. b.) repair, replacement, and upgrades of the utilities infrastructure. This is likely the next funding increment. c.) a modest increase in seating capacity. d.) a significant increase in seating capacity. Sasaki was asked to prepare and present options for c.) and d.) and the associated costs for options c.) and d.) Its possible there is an option e.) associated with seating and amenities. What if there is an option f.) either H.E. or the ECAC says "We don't care about the Hart rink for now. Just schedule your league games at the DCU, increase your coaching and recruiting budgets to league average, pay the entrance fee and the AHA exit fee and you are in." Would that be funded? That hypothetical is not on the table. From the presentations I heard, playing at the DCU is not an option being considered. The former chair of the BoT's athletic committee set the ground rules for the scope of the Sasaki engineering and design study of the Hart rink, and they are focused on the Hart. It is difficult enough presently to get students to go to Fitton Field or the Hart court, and HC has experience on what happened with respect to DCU attendance when parents weren't in tow. |
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 29, 2022 18:00:25 GMT -5
Just pointing out that perennial AHA league champion AIC skates in the DCU's sister arena, the Mass Mutual Center in downtown Springfield (another mutual company spending their customer/owners' money on naming rights instead of lower premiums or dividends). So if impartial college sports expert B. Foley rates AIC as more likely than HC to receive an invite from H.E., on campus facilities are not the Be All and End All to having a successful hockey program and moving up to a better league. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 29, 2022 18:52:49 GMT -5
Just pointing out that perennial AHA league champion AIC skates in the DCU's sister arena, the Mass Mutual Center in downtown Springfield (another mutual company spending their customer/owners' money on naming rights instead of lower premiums or dividends). So if impartial college sports expert B. Foley rates AIC as more likely than HC to receive an invite from H.E., on campus facilities are not the Be All and End All to having a successful hockey program and moving up to a better league. Option G; Discontinue women's ice hockey, and have men's ice hockey play at the DCU. (AIC doesn't play women's ice hockey.) |
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Post by longsuffering on Sept 29, 2022 19:14:20 GMT -5
Just pointing out that perennial AHA league champion AIC skates in the DCU's sister arena, the Mass Mutual Center in downtown Springfield (another mutual company spending their customer/owners' money on naming rights instead of lower premiums or dividends). So if impartial college sports expert B. Foley rates AIC as more likely than HC to receive an invite from H.E., on campus facilities are not the Be All and End All to having a successful hockey program and moving up to a better league. Option G; Discontinue women's ice hockey, and have men's ice hockey play at the DCU. (AIC doesn't play women's ice hockey.) Option H: AIC starts a women's hockey program and joins the D-1 NEWHA copying what Assumption and Stonehill are doing, and schedules it's home games as double headers before the men's games at the Mass Mutual Center for less than what it would cost to rent a community rink for the night. It would be unlikely for HC to drop the program in the cellar of the higher league instead of the program in the cellar of the lower league, but I don't think HC is dropping any sports anyway. |
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Post by beachbound on Sept 29, 2022 20:24:15 GMT -5
My recollections about MB's and KH's presentations on the Hart rink are that: a.) major improvements are needed on the men's side. The facilities, e.g., locker room, are too small and not what recruited athletes expect of a Division I ice hockey school. This is the base kevel of any future investment in the rink. This will be funded. b.) repair, replacement, and upgrades of the utilities infrastructure. This is likely the next funding increment. c.) a modest increase in seating capacity. d.) a significant increase in seating capacity. Sasaki was asked to prepare and present options for c.) and d.) and the associated costs for options c.) and d.) Its possible there is an option e.) associated with seating and amenities. If HC does a) right, I am pleased to hear it. |
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Post by Pakachoag Phreek on Sept 30, 2022 6:56:31 GMT -5
My recollections about MB's and KH's presentations on the Hart rink are that: a.) major improvements are needed on the men's side. The facilities, e.g., locker room, are too small and not what recruited athletes expect of a Division I ice hockey school. This is the base kevel of any future investment in the rink. This will be funded. b.) repair, replacement, and upgrades of the utilities infrastructure. This is likely the next funding increment. c.) a modest increase in seating capacity. d.) a significant increase in seating capacity. Sasaki was asked to prepare and present options for c.) and d.) and the associated costs for options c.) and d.) Its possible there is an option e.) associated with seating and amenities. If HC does a) right, I am pleased to hear it. Kit was more detailed in describing the inadequacies on the men's side, than MB., The gist of Kit's description was that they are second-rate, if not third-rate (Kit has more than once mentioned he played youth hockey at the Hart.) Option e.) that I briefly mentioned reflects Kit's belief that fans, these days, want more of an experience when they come to a game than just sitting in a seat..  Kit was a four year letterman in lacrosse at Bowdoin. This is the old men's lacrosse locker room at Bowdoin. I suspect he knows a bit about inadequate facilities. |
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